Fulton County Trunking

[dudegt]

So I am new to this forum however I have been into police scanning for a long while. I just got a setup in order to decode trunked radio. While doing research to find which system my local police is on (Johns Creek Police) I saw that they were apart of the "Fulton County Public Safety P25" however the surrounding cities such as Roswell, Alpharetta, Milton are all apart of the "North Fulton Regional Radio System Authority (NFRRSA)". Which in my opinion, doesn't make any sense? Why would Johns Creek be on a system that the departments within the system are nowhere near Johns Creek and none of the surrounding cities are apart of that system and are on another system (NFRRSA)? Would anyone have an idea of why that could be or is there a good explanation that someone if Fulton County could explain to me. I will attach some photos for those who want some context for the cities and where they are.

The NFRRSA includes:
Alpharetta
Chattahoochee River Communications
Milton
Roswell
Sandy Springs
911 Call Centers Link

The Fulton County Public Safety P25 includes:
Fulton County Fire, Police, Sheriff, Marshall, Jail, EMS, Animal Control, Water, Utilities, Schools, etc.
American Medical Response (Ambulance)
City of South Fulton
Fairburn
Hapeville

 

[tvengr]

Welcome to the forum. I suggest that you click on Report and ask that your thread be moved to the Georgia forum. The people living in your immediate area would have a lot more information to be able to answer your questions.

 

[MTS2000des]

\Which in my opinion, doesn't make any sense? Why would Johns Creek be on a system that the departments within the system are nowhere near Johns Creek and none of the surrounding cities are apart of that system and are on another system (NFRRSA)? Would anyone have an idea of why that could be or is there a good explanation that someone if Fulton County could explain to me. I will attach some photos for those who want some context for the cities and where they are.

Johns Creek elected to participate in a county wide trunking system, which has countywide coverage, and used by other countywide law enforcement agencies such as the Sheriff's office, Marshal's Department, School Police, DA's Office, Solicitor's Office, and AMR (who provide emergency ambulance service to cities in the north end of the county)- at a lower cost- than being on the NFRRSA system. They funded the cost of a site for in-building coverage in the city, and enjoy countywide (and beyond) portable coverage.

The Fulton P25 system does share an ISSI connection with NFRSSA for some selected talk groups that need extended coverage and other ISSI connections, including the new UASI ISSI, which allows for regional interoperability. The UASI ISSI connection is available to subscribers of the Fulton county trunked radio system, as a UASI member agency, Fulton county provides critical infrastructure support to keep the UASI ISSI talk groups connected among the various metro area trunked radio systems including Cobb, DeKalb, City of Atlanta, Clayton and Gwinnett counties.

 

[dudegt]

Johns Creek elected to participate in a county wide trunking system, which has countywide coverage, and used by other countywide law enforcement agencies such as the Sheriff's office, Marshal's Department, School Police, DA's Office, Solicitor's Office, and AMR (who provide emergency ambulance service to cities in the north end of the county)- at a lower cost- than being on the NFRRSA system. They funded the cost of a site for in-building coverage in the city, and enjoy countywide (and beyond) portable coverage.

The Fulton P25 system does share an ISSI connection with NFRSSA for some selected talk groups that need extended coverage and other ISSI connections, including the new UASI ISSI, which allows for regional interoperability. The UASI ISSI connection is available to subscribers of the Fulton county trunked radio system, as a UASI member agency, Fulton county provides critical infrastructure support to keep the UASI ISSI talk groups connected among the various metro area trunked radio systems including Cobb, DeKalb, City of Atlanta, Clayton and Gwinnett counties.

Ah, I see so they decided to be apart of a more infrastructure critical trunking system rather than North Fulton's. Probably also to do with being able to communicate with the right authorities quicker and being apart of a larger more critical group. Do you know if Johns Creek was one of the first cities in north Fulton to switch to trunking system and at the point that they switched NFRRSA didn't exist?

 

[MTS2000des]

Ah, I see so they decided to be apart of a more infrastructure critical trunking system rather than North Fulton's. Probably also to do with being able to communicate with the right authorities quicker and being apart of a larger more critical group.

Correct. Being on a countwide radio system with countywide reach enabled better interoperability with countywide entities, and provides better coverage during chases, hospital transports, etc.

Do you know if Johns Creek was one of the first cities in north Fulton to switch to trunking system and at the point that they switched NFRRSA didn't exist?

Johns Creek has been a subscriber and stakeholder in the Fulton county radio system since the county was on Smartnet (analog) and predates the city itself existing. Prior to the incorporation, the area was unincorporated county and public safety services were provided by the county, along with emergency call taking and dispatching done by the county's E911 center.

The other cities in the north end were all once on the Fulton county analog system since the system came to be around 1991/1992 though Roswell and Alpharetta have, and still, operate their own PSAPs.

Fun fact: the current county Astro 25 system, by design and bid specifications, has the RF coverage and subscriber capacity to carry all of the northern city agencies along with the countywide entities, and southern agencies, as was implemented by the vendor. The NFRRSA system came first, and for a variety of reasons, those jurisdictions chose to go onto that system versus wait for the county build out and migration to occur.

 

[dudegt]

Correct. Being on a countwide radio system with countywide reach enabled better interoperability with countywide entities, and provides better coverage during chases, hospital transports, etc.

Johns Creek has been a subscriber and stakeholder in the Fulton county radio system since the county was on Smartnet (analog) and predates the city itself existing. Prior to the incorporation, the area was unincorporated county and public safety services were provided by the county, along with emergency call taking and dispatching done by the county's E911 center.

The other cities in the north end were all once on the Fulton county analog system since the system came to be around 1991/1992 though Roswell and Alpharetta have, and still, operate their own PSAPs.

Fun fact: the current county Astro 25 system, by design and bid specifications, has the RF coverage and subscriber capacity to carry all of the northern city agencies along with the countywide entities, and southern agencies, as was implemented by the vendor. The NFRRSA system came first, and for a variety of reasons, those jurisdictions chose to go onto that system versus wait for the county build out and migration to occur.

Very interesting thank you for the information honestly the reason I find it frustrating is because if I want to listen to Johns Creek I have to switch frequencies from the NFRRSA and I can’t listen to them at the same time LOL. I do find it odd that the NFRRSA hasn’t merged with the Fulton County Public Safety P25 inorder to be more streamlined and efficient. Is it because they’re just being stubborn, red tape or they just don’t feel the need too? Also now that you mention it it does make a bit of sense that Johns Creek is apart of the Fulton County system since they used to be unincorporated and all emergency services were operated by Fulton County and when the became incoperated they just merged with Fulton County being that they used to be their Emergency Services provider.

 

[MTS2000des]

I do find it odd that the NFRRSA hasn’t merged with the Fulton County Public Safety P25 inorder to be more streamlined and efficient. Is it because they’re just being stubborn, red tape or they just don’t feel the need too?

I cannot comment on this, but the standup of the NFRRSA was a decision made by those respective agencies/entities to be separate from the county. It was made several years ago. Merging systems would mean giving up some control of the system to another entity, and for political and budgetary reasons this may not be an option.

 

[dudegt]

I cannot comment on this, but the standup of the NFRRSA was a decision made by those respective agencies/entities to be separate from the county. It was made several years ago. Merging systems would mean giving up some control of the system to another entity, and for political and budgetary reasons this may not be an option.

Makes sense, here's an off-topic question that you might know the answer to. When ambulances call ahead to the hospital when they are transporting a patient, do they use the AMR frequency that is designated within the Fulton County Public Safety system or do they use something else? I know that they do this (call ahead to the hospital) because recently when I was in an accident they I was transported to the hospital via AMR and they called ahead to North Fulton Hospital telling them that they are on the way there. Would you happen to know what they use?

 

[DanRollman]

...for political and budgetary reasons...

dudegt, good questions and observations you've posted here. As usual, MTS2000des has provided great detailed answers. I will add only that what is written immediately above is perhaps the single best concise answer to your questions. What public safety radio systems exist, how they are built out, who owns and operates which, who uses which, etc. often revolves more around politics and budgets than what might make the most sense outside the political and budgetary universe. And when I say budgets - I don't always mean keeping costs down. Sometimes, choices made result in higher costs but more control kept at the place(s) that committed the budget. Some would rather spend more but retain control 'at home' then spend a lot less and get a lot more but have to rely on others. Unfortunately things like engineering, interoperability, efficiency, etc. are often much lower on the list of considerations than politics, money, politics, politics, control, and politics. It seems you are looking for a rational explanation to something that doesn't always have one.

 

[dudegt]

dudegt, good questions and observations you've posted here. As usual, MTS2000des has provided great detailed answers. I will add only that what is written immediately above is perhaps the single best concise answer to your questions. What public safety radio systems exist, how they are built out, who owns and operates which, who uses which, etc. often revolves more around politics and budgets than what might make the most sense outside the political and budgetary universe. And when I say budgets - I don't always mean keeping costs down. Sometimes, choices made result in higher costs but more control kept at the place(s) that committed the budget. Some would rather spend more but retain control 'at home' then spend a lot less and get a lot more but have to rely on others. Unfortunately things like engineering, interoperability, efficiency, etc. are often much lower on the list of considerations than politics, money, politics, politics, control, and politics. It seems you are looking for a rational explanation to something that doesn't always have one.

Very good point, when the government is involved the obvious solution isn't always the chosen solution. Like you said it could be for budget or just political reasoning.

 

[MTS2000des]

Makes sense, here's an off-topic question that you might know the answer to. When ambulances call ahead to the hospital when they are transporting a patient, do they use the AMR frequency that is designated within the Fulton County Public Safety system or do they use something else? I know that they do this (call ahead to the hospital) because recently when I was in an accident they I was transported to the hospital via AMR and they called ahead to North Fulton Hospital telling them that they are on the way there. Would you happen to know what they use?

There are talk groups on the Fulton system but they are not currently utilized. I believe some exist on NFRSSA but I am not involved with that system so I do not know the specifics. Most EMS to hospital traffic takes place on cellular telephones.

 

[Firebuff880]

and for political and budgetary reasons this may not be an option.

There are many hurt feelings still from the formation of the Cities and how long it took for the governments to be authorized.

At one time there were at least eight systems you could choose from standing in a given spot of the Sandy Springs / Dunwoody panhandle. Assuming you could get the system owners to cross program anything. The closest you really got to interoperability was the post 9/11 "DOJ 25 Cities" ACU project hosted by the FBI in metro Atlanta, now scraped and the 8-Tac (then called I-Tac) UASI repeater project.

* Fulton County
* North Fulton Cities.
* Gwinnett
* Dekalb
* UASI
* MARTA
* Cobb
* Forsyth

Edit - forgot about the City of Atlanta System