GMRS Interference crossing bridge

[bugger78]

I cross the Kingston - Rhinecliff bridge often and encounter what I believe to be DMR transmissions. It effects multiple channels, like 4, 7, 14 and 22. Essentially the radio is useless when I'm approaching or on the bridge and it seems to have gotten worse the past few months.

I've used two different mobile rigs, the Midland MXT500 and the Wouxon KG-1000G plus and both exhibit the issue. However the Wouxon seems more sensitive and will keep squelch open over most of the span.

So the question I have is, are GMRS radios designed to be susceptible to these transmission and others, or is there a deeper issue at play?

 

[EAFrizzle]

I'd suspect intermodulation distortion. Possibly paging transmitters.

 

[Hit_Factor]

There are a couple gas stations and a MSU extension farm around here, always noisy when I pass by.

 

[cactus360]

Could be any number of devices emitting RF on or immediately adjacent to your frequencies. There are plenty of budget RF devices easily available on the market which supposedly pass FCC certification but are "dirty" as all get out when it comes to emissions.

As far as GMRS radios being designed to be susceptible to these transmissions. As designed, no, they are not "designed" to be susceptible. But in reality if a dirty device is causing interference on GMRS channels there is always a good possibility you will hear it.

Lastly, it can come down to quality of your radios. If you get an inexpensive radio from China, who knows what the build QA process is and what the quality of your reception is. But, since the interference is common to both of your GMRS radios, generally regarded as "nicer radios," I would not suspect the radios themselves.

 

[bugger78]

I'd suspect intermodulation distortion. Possibly paging transmitters.

I didn't think about that. Thanks

Could be any number of devices emitting RF on or immediately adjacent to your frequencies. There are plenty of budget RF devices easily available on the market which supposedly pass FCC certification but are "dirty" as all get out when it comes to emissions.

Yes I've heard of this, I just wouldn't expect the NYS Bridge Authority to be using such devices. The Kingston Airport is also on the west end of the bridge, so maybe thats where some of the interference is eminating from I'd be interested in trying a higher end radio to see if it behaves the same although I think most radios are made in China now a days. You know its kind of annoying, but I can live with it.

 

[KF0NYL]

All Part 95 certified GMRS radios are made in China. And you have tried two of the better radios already.

While I have not ran into any issues with UHF, 70cm or GMRS, I do have problems on the 2m band whenever I get close to one of the local FM radio stations. That station puts out all kinds of spurious emissions and is very dirty.

 

[mmckenna]

All Part 95 certified GMRS radios are made in China. And you have tried two of the better radios already.

No, not quite. There are plenty of Part 95 radios built in Japan, Taiwan, and if I dug far enough, USA.

But a lot of the cheaper products are absolutely out of China, and not all of them are known for outstanding performance.

 

[KF0NYL]

No, not quite. There are plenty of Part 95 radios built in Japan, Taiwan, and if I dug far enough, USA.

But a lot of the cheaper products are absolutely out of China, and not all of them are known for outstanding performance.

Please list all of the brand new consumer grade Part 95 certified GMRS radios that are not made in China.

Yes there are commercial radios that are both Part 90 and Part 95 certified.

Outside of the Garmin GMRS radios that are made in Taiwan, all other consumer grade Part 95 certified radios are made in China. And not everyone can afford a new commercial grade Part 90/95 certified radio nor do they want to deal with used Part 90/95 radios.

And Yes even though Midland is an American company, their GMRS radios are made in China.

 

[mmckenna]

Please list all of the brand new consumer grade Part 95 certified GMRS radios that are not made in China.

Nope, not going to list all of them. And "new" and "consumer grade" wasn't one of the requirements. You stated "All Part 95 certified GMRS radios are made in China.", which isn't accurate.

There's a lot of people running Kenwood, Icom and Motorola radios that have Part 95 certs that are affordable and usually have better performance than the consumer grade Chinese stuff. I run Kenwood gear now, ran Icom back many years ago. All new at the time, all had Part 95 certification. Some of them about the same price as the Midland mobiles.

 

[KF0NYL]

I'm not trying to be ignorant. I am honestly wanting to know what US made GMRS radios are available. Because if you look at all of the major online retailers of GMRS radios, they do not even list Icom or Kenwood commercial radios.

And when it comes to Icom, yes they do make some of their business radios that are Part 95 certified. But is the average GMRS user going to buy a business/commercial radio?

And yes I did bring up consumer grade radios since that IS what most people will buy when it comes to GMRS radios.

Now I am not beyond admitting when I am wrong and I will now correct myself. YES all consumer grade GMRS radios ARE made in China.

 

[bugger78]

A small update on my situation. I reached out to tech support at Buy twoway radios and the support tech suggested I factory reset the radio as well as remove any repeater frequencies I programmed. This made a an improvement, but the interference still remains. I'm also now experiencing lock-ups with the radio. I've attached a couple of short videos of the interference off my google drive.
KG-1000G Plus

 

[hill]

I'm not trying to be ignorant. I am honestly wanting to know what US made GMRS radios are available. Because if you look at all of the major online retailers of GMRS radios, they do not even list Icom or Kenwood commercial radios.

Yes, most of us running Kenwood radios and other retired commercial radios on GMRS aren't buying new, but have purchased them used for less money than a Chinese GMRS radios sell for.

Great radios for GMRS are Kenwood TK-8180 mobiles and TK-3180 handhelds. The both use the same programming software and if both are the same band split you dump same programming in each. You just need to change the button/key selection between each with have a different button layout.

These radios have great front ends and won't let all the intermod in like the other radios.

See my linked post below on TK-3180 for GMRS.

Kenwood TK-3180 great GMRS HT!

The Kenwood TK-3180 is a great GMRS handheld radio. I many different types and models of Kenwood radios and this radio works well for my limited use of GMRS. it's set up with all the repeater pairs with operator selected tone, plus having my local repeater allready programmed in a channel...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[mmckenna]

I'm not trying to be ignorant. I am honestly wanting to know what US made GMRS radios are available. Because if you look at all of the major online retailers of GMRS radios, they do not even list Icom or Kenwood commercial radios.

I don't know who's currently making Part 95 radios in the USA. Probably no one.
I do know that the Kenwood TK-3180 sitting next to me that was new a few years ago (no longer sold new) does absolutely have Part 90 and Part 95 certification, and was made in Singapore. I used a lot of Icom gear back in the 1990's on GMRS and I think it was all made in Japan. Some older Motorola gear was made in the USA.

And when it comes to Icom, yes they do make some of their business radios that are Part 95 certified. But is the average GMRS user going to buy a business/commercial radio?

Used to be that was the only option. Back in the 1990's, if you wanted on GMRS, you had to buy commercial gear and program it for GMRS. That's what we did. Icom, Kenwood, Motorola, etc. were the only options. Eventually the bubble pack manufacturers got in on the action, but those that were serious wanted more than a couple of watts and a cheap radio. Midland eventually got on board with their pre-programmed mobiles and that really opened up the radio service to a lot more users.

But there are absolutely those that are serious about GMRS that still use Part 95 certified commercial gear. Good used gear doesn't cost more than the preprogrammed Midland and higher tier Chinese stuff. The last Kenwood TK-3180 I purchased was around $150, and mobiles are similarly priced. Yeah, programming is a challenge for many, but for those that are really serious about

 

[cactus360]

Yes, most of us running Kenwood radios and other retired commercial radios on GMRS aren't buying new, but have purchased them used for less money than a Chinese GMRS radios sell for.

Great radios for GMRS are Kenwood TK-8180 mobiles and TK-3180 handhelds. The both use the same programming software and if both are the same band split you dump same programming in each. You just need to change the button/key selection between each with have a different button layout.

These radios have great front ends and won't let all the intermod in like the other radios.

See my linked post below on TK-3180 for GMRS.

Kenwood TK-3180 great GMRS HT!

The Kenwood TK-3180 is a great GMRS handheld radio. I many different types and models of Kenwood radios and this radio works well for my limited use of GMRS. it's set up with all the repeater pairs with operator selected tone, plus having my local repeater allready programmed in a channel...

forums.radioreference.com

I will second the use of the Kenwood TK-3180 series. If you are willing to buy used, get a programming cable, programming software and spend a little time understanding the programing software. None of that is really hard, just takes a bit of time.

Mine cost about $130 a few years ago. That was radio, charging base and rubber duck. I knew it would be most my carried radio. And I would often be swapping out the rubber duck antenna for couple different mag mount antennas. So I wanted a radio with tough construction with quality components and choose the Kenwood. So far, using quick disconnectors, frequent antenna changing has no ill effects on performance or antenna connection integrity.

Reviewing second hand radio dealer web sites and Ebay stores it quickly became apparent to take this route, they really understand radios and offered refunds. On the other hand, individuals selling all kinds of items could not answer even basic questions about the radio they happened to be selling.

But I also recommend continuing the use of your current radio as you would learn to program and use a commercial grade radio. Gotta have something to use. LOL

 

[Project25_MASTR]

As other's have stated. If you were playing repeaters before about 2015...you were using General Electric, EF Johnson, Motorola, Icom or Kenwood radios that had dual type acceptance. As @mmckenna stated, Kenwood had a radio that was dual type accepted but only went out of production due to the Naka factory fire in 2020 (remaining stock was used and the line was canceled). JVCK had since shown interest in getting a NX tier type accepted only to realize that the rules for GMRS had been changed in 2017 and dual certifications where no longer a thing. Maybe we will see something in the NX-1000 built specifically for GMRS one of these days but without dual certification it is unlikely the decision makers in Japan will approve a US only investment in such a low level volume of units.

I would be willing to bet the interference being received is likely due to the lower quality receivers in consumer GMRS products.

 

[bugger78]

.....I would be willing to bet the interference being received is likely due to the lower quality receivers in consumer GMRS products.

I have some money burning a small hole in my pocket so I'd like to test that assumption out to see if it improves my situation. I'm currently looking into the Kenwood TK-8180H, TK-8360, and NX-800-K.

 

[mmckenna]

I have some money burning a small hole in my pocket so I'd like to test that assumption out to see if it improves my situation. I'm currently looking into the Kenwood TK-8180H,

The 8180H does not have Part 95 certification. The only mobile that does is the 450-520MHz 30 watt model.

TK-8360,

The H model does not have Part 95

and NX-800-K.

The 30 watt (non-H) 450-520MHz version is the only NX-800 submodel that has Part 95.

Many will say it doesn't matter. Since we were specifically talking about FCC Type Certification, I'm just letting you know so you can make an informed decision.

Truth is, the difference between 30 watts and 45 watts is so small that it really doesn't make much of a difference, and it's easily overcome with a good antenna.

The KPG-89 programming software used on the TK-8180 is about as easy as it gets to learn. If you are new to commercial radios, I'd recommend that being your first foray into programming. The help files are pretty good and there's a lot of people that can assist you.

The KPG-111 software is a tiny bit more complex, and if you don't need NXDN (you can't run it on GMRS), there's really no need to pay extra for it.

What you —do— need to pay attention to is the firmware/software combination on these radios. After Jan. 2013, they were forced to narrow band, which you do not want for GMRS or ham use. The chances of getting the right thing are higher with the TK-8180 or 8160. Most NX-800's are going to be newer and may have the narrow band requirement in place.

 

[bugger78]

The 8180H does not have Part 95 certification. The only mobile that does is the 450-520MHz 30 watt model.

The H model does not have Part 95

The 30 watt (non-H) 450-520MHz version is the only NX-800 submodel that has Part 95.

Many will say it doesn't matter. Since we were specifically talking about FCC Type Certification,...

I'm still relatively new to GMRS, but this is good information. Thanks for breaking it down for me.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm still relatively new to GMRS, but this is good information. Thanks for breaking it down for me.

Glad I could help.

Nice thing about the TK-8180:
Since you want the 450-520 version, those usually cost less than the 400-470 version, which the amateur radio operators want. So, that'll save you some cash.
People think they need the highest power they can get their hands on, so they'll gravitate towards the 45 watt models, again, you'll save some cash because the 30 watt models tend to cost less.

As analog radios go, the TK-x180 line was pretty dang nice. Big 14 character display, so you can name your channels properly. It'll do 512 channels, so plenty of room to add whatever you want. There is a user selectable PL tone option that you can set up, so put in your 8 repeater pairs with this function button and you can access repeaters as you travel.

If you can find a KRK-10 remote head kit, you can set these up for remote mount. The control head is pretty small in this configuration, so it'll increase mounting options. Problem is, the KRK-10's seem to be going for a exorbitant amount of money at the moment.

NX-800 will get you all the same features, plus NXDN if you want to play with that on the ham bands. These usually go for more money than the analog only radios.

Both use all the same accessories, same with the hand helds.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

As were also discussing receive issues. It should be noted that you could test this theory with any modern radio that can support wideband such as Motorola APX series, EFJ Viking raidos, etc (suggestions provided as the programming software's allow for wideband on amateur and GMRS frequencies) because the transmitter is what's certified for use on GMRS (or not). Receiving doesn't need to be within Part 95 (i.e. a modern Part 90 radio set to RX only on GMRS is perfectly allowable).