Industrial Electronics (264) NexEdge96 Trunked System

mtindor · May 11, 2017

sibbley said:
Made the submission this morning, although I see the frequencies are listed. I provided logs from DSD+ and my TRX.

I have many TGID's. What is the best way to submit those. I mentioned in my submission to the DB that it would be easier to submit using an excel file. I could attach that here or email to whoever.

I had already made that submission based upon the information you provided previously, because I was unsure whether you were going to do so. I did note that the information I was submitting had come from your data/posts on the forum.

As far as the talkgroups, I don't admin that system so you'd either have to just export to CSV and copy/paste talkgroup info into a submission, or upload the excel file somewhere and provide the admins the link to it inside the ticket.

Mike

mtindor · May 11, 2017

sibbley said:
Since these frequencies show RAN of 23, does it make sense that they are part of the Stroudsburg (WPMZ692) site?

From WNUF588:

2017/05/09 19:02:36 Freq=464.187500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5771
2017/05/09 19:02:38 Freq=464.950000 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5770 [---] 6s
2017/05/09 19:02:58 Freq=461.912500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5771 [---] 9s

Yes it does. That wouldn't always be the case, as Eric Cottrell has pointed out, since sites above 64 would also have similar RANs. But, since this system currently doesn't have 64 sites you now that 23 is actually 23, and that any frequency with a RAN of 23 and part of a license for Stroudsburg would be a Stroudsburg frequency.

mike

mtindor · May 11, 2017

sibbley said:
Will confirm that control channel for Stroudsburg (WPMZ692) is 451.2250.

2017/05/10 18:47:50 Freq=451.225000 Current network: L264
2017/05/10 18:47:50 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 Current site: L264-23
2017/05/10 18:47:58 Freq=451.225000 Current network: L264
2017/05/10 18:47:58 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 Current site: L264-23
2017/05/10 18:48:16 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/10 18:48:16 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-12; CC=165
2017/05/10 18:48:16 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/05/10 18:48:16 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-26; CC=512
2017/05/10 18:48:16 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-29; CC=181

Looks like you've already confirmed that 451.225 is the CC frequency of site 23, at least as things were going in March. Based upon that information that you've provided, it confirms the CCs of sites 6, 11, 12, 20, 22, 23, 26, and 29.

(of course I should note that it is possible for any of these sites to have multiple control channels, with control channels autorotating or manually switching when the main transmitter is down).

Now if only some other nice folks could run DSDPLus on some of the other site CCs.

Thanks for this info. If you haven't already submitted this in the past, you might want to submit it now -- and ask an admin to add the list of site neighbors for Site 23 Stroudsburg. And it would be useful for all of your information above to exist in a submission ticket for documentation purposes.

Mike

mtindor · May 11, 2017

Sibbley,

Do keep in mind that in your 4-29-17 Conway Log.zip that you provided us before, your scanner at some point was able to copy some Site 12 Tannersville frequencies. I don' t know if you can always copy those frequencies, or if you only can when band conditions are exceptional. But you might want to check to see if the currrently known CC for site 12 ( 452.05 ) can be copied within your DSDPlus. And, if it can, the CC information / neighbors from it would be useful as well. Site 29 Blakesless (CC: 452.25 ) might also be copyable from your location. I'm not sure how far your reach is.

Again, thanks for all of the info you are submitting. I'm sure others appreciate it even if they might not say it.

Mike

sibbley · May 11, 2017

Basically the info I submitted this morning as follows:

Neighbor list for Allentown site WNCA488

2017/03/25 08:07:21 Freq=461.387500 Current network: L264
2017/03/25 08:07:21 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 Current site: L264-26
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-6; CC=151
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-12; CC=165
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-20; CC=534
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-23; CC=99

Neighbor list for Stroudsburg WPMZ692

2017/05/10 18:56:21 Freq=451.225000 Current network: L264
2017/05/10 18:56:21 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 Current site: L264-23
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-12; CC=165
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-26; CC=512
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-29; CC=181

I've also found frequencies listed under WNUF588 with the same RAN (23) as Stroudsburg.

2017/05/10 19:26:12 Freq=464.950000 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5770 [---] 5s
2017/05/10 19:31:13 Freq=461.912500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5770 [---]
2017/05/10 19:31:44 Freq=464.187500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5761 [---]

Also, Frequencies listed under WNJL641 with RAN (12). This is from my TRX-1 Audio Log.

Conway WNJL641 761 463.225 463.225 NXDN96 RAN:12
Conway WNJL641 761 464.8875 464.8875 NXDN96 RAN:12
Conway WNJL641 761 462.1125 462.1125 NXDN96 RAN:12

No control channel found on either WNUF588 or WNJL641 as of yet.

mtindor · May 11, 2017

sibbley said:
Basically the info I submitted this morning as follows:

No control channel found on either WNUF588 or WNJL641 as of yet.

Thank you. The reason no CC has been found on WNUF588 (Stroudsburg) is because the CC for Stroudsburg (451.225) is on WPMZ692. And the reason no CC has been found on WNJL641 (Tannersville) is because the CC for Tannersville (452.05) is on WPMY390.

So, basically, you have the CC (and maybe some other VCs) one one license, and then some VCs on another license.

mike

EricCottrell · May 11, 2017

sibbley said:
Basically the info I submitted this morning as follows:

Neighbor list for Allentown site WNCA488

2017/03/25 08:07:21 Freq=461.387500 Current network: L264
2017/03/25 08:07:21 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 Current site: L264-26
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-6; CC=151
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-12; CC=165
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-20; CC=534
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/03/25 08:07:47 Freq=461.387500 RAN=26 L264-26 neighbor: Site L264-23; CC=99

Neighbor list for Stroudsburg WPMZ692

2017/05/10 18:56:21 Freq=451.225000 Current network: L264
2017/05/10 18:56:21 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 Current site: L264-23
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-12; CC=165
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-26; CC=512
2017/05/10 18:56:46 Freq=451.225000 RAN=23 L264-23 neighbor: Site L264-29; CC=181

I've also found frequencies listed under WNUF588 with the same RAN (23) as Stroudsburg.

2017/05/10 19:26:12 Freq=464.950000 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5770 [---] 5s
2017/05/10 19:31:13 Freq=461.912500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5770 [---]
2017/05/10 19:31:44 Freq=464.187500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5761 [---]

Also, Frequencies listed under WNJL641 with RAN (12). This is from my TRX-1 Audio Log.

Conway WNJL641 761 463.225 463.225 NXDN96 RAN:12
Conway WNJL641 761 464.8875 464.8875 NXDN96 RAN:12
Conway WNJL641 761 462.1125 462.1125 NXDN96 RAN:12

No control channel found on either WNUF588 or WNJL641 as of yet.

Hello,

Since a Standard UHF Map is used, you can find the control channel frequencies of neighbor sites. You can also take any logged voice channel numbers and convert to frequencies.

Code:

Site	Ch	Freq
 6	151	451.8750
11	211	452.6250
12	165	452.0500
20	534	461.6625
22	601	462.5000
23	 99	451.2250
26	512	461.3875
29	181	452.2500

You can also do reverse to make a frequency map to trunk track the site.

Code:

Site 12
Ch	Freq
165	452.0500
570	462.1125
659	463.2250
792	464.8875

Site 23
Ch		Freq
99	451.2250
554	461.9125
736	464.1875
797	464.9500

73 Eric

sibbley · May 12, 2017

mtindor said:
Sibbley,

Do keep in mind that in your 4-29-17 Conway Log.zip that you provided us before, your scanner at some point was able to copy some Site 12 Tannersville frequencies. I don' t know if you can always copy those frequencies, or if you only can when band conditions are exceptional. But you might want to check to see if the currrently known CC for site 12 ( 452.05 ) can be copied within your DSDPlus. And, if it can, the CC information / neighbors from it would be useful as well. Site 29 Blakesless (CC: 452.25 ) might also be copyable from your location. I'm not sure how far your reach is.

Again, thanks for all of the info you are submitting. I'm sure others appreciate it even if they might not say it.

Mike

Tannersville Site 12:

2017/05/11 18:25:51 Freq=452.050000 Current network: L264
2017/05/11 18:25:51 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 Current site: L264-12
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-6; CC=151
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-22; CC=601
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-23; CC=99 451.225000
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-26; CC=512
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-27; CC=187
2017/05/11 18:25:58 Freq=452.050000 RAN=12 L264-12 neighbor: Site L264-29; CC=181

Submitted above Neighbor List to DB admin this morning.

All I could get on site 29:

2017/05/11 17:47:02 Freq=452.250000 Current network: L264
2017/05/11 17:47:02 Freq=452.250000 RAN=29 Current site: L264-29
2017/05/11 17:47:30 Freq=452.250000 Current network: L264
2017/05/11 17:47:30 Freq=452.250000 RAN=29 Current site: L264-29

Also found this which I can't explain?

2017/05/11 18:02:36 Freq=452.250000 Current network: L1000
2017/05/11 18:02:36 Freq=452.250000 RAN=14 Current site: L1000-14
2017/05/11 18:12:52 Freq=461.912500 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5761 [---] 1s
2017/05/11 18:20:43 Freq=464.950000 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5771 [---] 4s
2017/05/11 18:20:53 Freq=463.225000 RAN=12 Group call; TG=761 RID=5761 [---] 1s
2017/05/11 18:21:06 Freq=464.950000 RAN=23 Group call; TG=761 RID=5761 [---] 3s

sibbley · May 12, 2017

System Talk Groups. All unknown who the users are. Separated by site. Some TGID's are heard on multiple sites.

Added a link to this file in DB submission this morning with disclaimer that they are all unknown users.

popnokick · May 17, 2017

My receiving location is near the intersection of Monroe, Pike, and Wayne counties. The CC I'm receiving is 463.6875 from Site 10 on Salem Hill in Wayne Co, but may have some others as well-
2017/05/17 09:50:42 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:50:42 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:52:00 Current network: L2312
2017/05/17 09:52:00 Current site: L2312-10
2017/05/17 09:52:09 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:52:09 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-7; CC=241
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-9; CC=223
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-15; CC=174
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-16; CC=795
2017/05/17 09:55:55 Current network: G209
2017/05/17 09:55:55 Current site: G209-1290
2017/05/17 09:55:57 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:55:57 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:57:24 Current network: L39781
2017/05/17 09:57:24 Current site: L39781-12
2017/05/17 09:57:47 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:57:47 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-7; CC=241
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-9; CC=223
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-15; CC=174
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-16; CC=795
2017/05/17 10:02:03 Group call; TG=601 RID=3886 Ch=671 1s
2017/05/17 10:15:14 Group call; TG=751 RID=5682 Ch=671

mtindor · May 17, 2017

popnokick said:
My receiving location is near the intersection of Monroe, Pike, and Wayne counties. The CC I'm receiving is 463.6875 from Site 10 on Salem Hill in Wayne Co, but may have some others as well-
2017/05/17 09:50:42 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:50:42 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:52:00 Current network: L2312
2017/05/17 09:52:00 Current site: L2312-10
2017/05/17 09:52:09 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:52:09 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-7; CC=241
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-9; CC=223
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-15; CC=174
2017/05/17 09:52:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-16; CC=795
2017/05/17 09:55:55 Current network: G209
2017/05/17 09:55:55 Current site: G209-1290
2017/05/17 09:55:57 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:55:57 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:57:24 Current network: L39781
2017/05/17 09:57:24 Current site: L39781-12
2017/05/17 09:57:47 Current network: L264
2017/05/17 09:57:47 Current site: L264-10
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-7; CC=241
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-9; CC=223
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-11; CC=211
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-15; CC=174
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-16; CC=795
2017/05/17 10:02:03 Group call; TG=601 RID=3886 Ch=671 1s
2017/05/17 10:15:14 Group call; TG=751 RID=5682 Ch=671

You mean the CC you are monitoring is 463.5875, right? Great information. Thank you. If you have not done so already, please submit your findings to:

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/submit/?sid=9209

Thanks

Mike

popnokick · May 17, 2017

CW ID is WPNT858 but neither 463.6875 nor 463.5875 are listed for that license. Closest listed freq is 463.675. I'll check the calibration on my SDR.

mtindor · May 17, 2017

popnokick said:
CW ID is WPNT858 but neither 463.6875 nor 463.5875 are listed for that license. Closest listed freq is 463.675. I'll check the calibration on my SDR.

Yikes, yes please do. I had made the assumption that you mistyped 463.6875 and meant 463.5875 (WPNP909 - Preston Park - Wayne Co).

But if the CWID is WPNT858 then I guess you may be off a bit on the SDR.

Although, Site 9 has CC of 452.775 (and only license with 452.775 is WPMZ507 (Carbondale / Lackawanna Co) -- the same place where WPNT858 is licensed.

So if it does turn out that you are actually monitoring 463.675 _and_ it's CWIDing as WPNT858, that's going to throw some confusion into the whole current site layout because it would bring into question Site 9's listing as being Carbondale.

From your stated area, if the signal on 463.675/6875 is really strong, then you certainly could be hearing into Lackawanna as well as one of the three other counties you mentioned.

Mike

mtindor · May 17, 2017

popnokick said:
CW ID is WPNT858 but neither 463.6875 nor 463.5875 are listed for that license. Closest listed freq is 463.675. I'll check the calibration on my SDR.

Site 9 is listed in the DB as Carbondale with a CC of 452.775
- your site 10 lists site 9 as a neighbor with 452.775
- 452.775 is only on one license (Carbondale - WPMZ507)

So, if you are able to hear a control channel on 452.775, it might pay for you to try and monitor that one and get site ID and neighbor details on it.

Mike

mtindor · May 17, 2017

I'm leaning towards Site 10 being Preston Park. Why?
- all of its neighbors are around Preston Park
- the voice channel that TGs 601/751 were on was ch 671 (463.375)
- 463.375 is part of Preston Park (WPNP909)
- it's already in the DB as Preston Park (with CC 463.7125 -- WPNP909)

I'm leaning towards thinking that your SDR# just may have needed calibration and that Site 10's CC is 463.7125.

And thanks to your monitoring of that site, confirmation of existing sites / documenting of new sites can be done based upon the site neighbors:

neighbors:
site 7: cc ch 241: 453.000 WINDSOR NY (BROOME) or PECKS POND/BLOOMING GROVE (PIKE)
- if you go by licenses, 453.000 could only be WINDSOR NY or PECKS POND
- If Site 11 is Pecks Pond (and it probably is), then that leaves Site 7 as WINDSOR

site 9: cc ch 223: 452.775 CARBONDALE (LACKAWANNA)
- if you go by licenses, 452.775 can only be CARBONDALE

site 11: cc ch 211: 452.625 HAZLETON (LUZERNE) or PECKS POND/BLOOMING GROVE (PIKE)
- if you go by licenses, 452.625 could only be HAZLETON or PECKS POND
- and much more likely Pecks Pond since Hazleton would be a long way to be a neighbor of Site 10
- Hazleton already in DB as site 20 anyway

site 15: cc ch 174: 452.1625 UNION DALE (SUSQUEHANNA)
- if you go by licenses, 452.1625 can only be UNION DALE

site 16: cc ch 795: 464.925 SCRANTON (LACKAWANNA)
- if you go by licenses, 464.925 can only be SCRANTON

Mike

popnokick · May 17, 2017

Mike- Your fill-in was very useful and I'll check the other freqs you listed. Takes me awhile to setup my SDR... have to disconnect my scanner antenna (OCFD in the attic). I believe I'm in range of every additional site you listed... except maybe Windsor, NY (although I do receive NYSEG P25 on VHF from Liberty and Vestal). Tomorrow morning I'll set up, check my calibration.... and start in on the additional freqs.

mtindor · May 17, 2017

popnokick said:
Mike- Your fill-in was very useful and I'll check the other freqs you listed. Takes me awhile to setup my SDR... have to disconnect my scanner antenna (OCFD in the attic). I believe I'm in range of every additional site you listed... except maybe Windsor, NY (although I do receive NYSEG P25 on VHF from Liberty and Vestal). Tomorrow morning I'll set up, check my calibration.... and start in on the additional freqs.

Sounds good . Interesting choice of scanner ant. Never tried one but thought an OCFD was typically used on HF. I might have to tinker around.

Hopefully you'll be able to pick up one or more of those sites, especially the ones listed but not yet documented in the DB.

Thanks for your efforts!

- Mike

popnokick · May 17, 2017

Off-Center Fed Dipoles (OCFD) work great in the scanner bands from about 30-900 mHz. As with any OCFD they have "sweet spots" in resonance, but most of those resonances land smack in the middle of a popular scanner band such as VHF LO/HI, Civil and MILAIR, UHF, and even 700 mHz & up. The pattern starts to get a little unpredictable around about 460 Mhz.... but it works. On VHF lowband the feed line also becomes part of the antenna. I built the one that has been here in the RR Wiki for years -
Homebrewed Off-Center Fed Dipole - The RadioReference Wiki
I made the bell wire version first, then built one out of copper pipe. Both work about the same. I use a CATV splitter-amp and feed three scanners with it. Very effective broad-banded scanner antenna.
My "other" OCFD is for HF and hangs horizontally about 40' up in trees. At 283 feet long I couldn't get it into the attic (nor would I want to ;-)

mtindor · May 17, 2017

popnokick said:
Off-Center Fed Dipoles (OCFD) work great in the scanner bands from about 30-900 mHz. As with any OCFD they have "sweet spots" in resonance, but most of those resonances land smack in the middle of a popular scanner band such as VHF LO/HI, Civil and MILAIR, UHF, and even 700 mHz & up. The pattern starts to get a little unpredictable around about 460 Mhz.... but it works. On VHF lowband the feed line also becomes part of the antenna. I built the one that has been here in the RR Wiki for years -
Homebrewed Off-Center Fed Dipole - The RadioReference Wiki
I made the bell wire version first, then built one out of copper pipe. Both work about the same. I use a CATV splitter-amp and feed three scanners with it. Very effective broad-banded scanner antenna.
My "other" OCFD is for HF and hangs horizontally about 40' up in trees. At 283 feet long I couldn't get it into the attic (nor would I want to ;-)

Thank you. As soon as my sciatica calms down, i'm going to dig up some stuff and do some testing. I have outside antennas, but only one at a time (on a 30 ft mast). Right now it's a 450 yagi turned by hand. THroughout the year I rotate it out with a 700 yagi and a 2m/440 vert. Would be nice to have something inside that I can rely upon all year 'round.

Mike

mtindor · Aug 25, 2017

Wellsboro (Tioga) pending NXDN trunked license

Here is a pending NXDN trunked license for Wellsboro (Tioga Co). Could be a standalone trunked site but is probably a new site for the Industrial Electronics NXDN trunked system.

ULS Application - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked - 0007896306 - CONWAY, ROBERT; CONWAY, THOMAS - Locations Summary

462.05
463.225
463.85
463.925
464.900

Mike

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