Jefferson County Fire Radio Changes 5/17

[ofd8001]

Beginning at 8:00 Sunday May 17 there will be a change on how channel assignments are made. Currently all suburban departments are assigned to a channel based on their geographic location. The problem with that is Fire One (154.250) has more radio traffic than Fire Two (154.370) and Fire Three (154.160) put together.

For 60 days we are trying a system where all departments will use Fire One as their primary channel. If a department is dispatched to a high priority incident, they will be instructed to use either Fire Two or Fire Three, whichever isn't committed to an incident. That should dedicate a channel for exclusive use at high priority incidents without someone "walking over" them with some other incident.

High Priority incidents are: Boat fire, chemical spill / fire, collapse – structural, electrical fire or odor, fire alarm – residential or commercial, fire close to structure, type unknown, garage / shed, gas leak - inside, gas leak – outside with fire, mutual aid response, structure fire, water leak/electrical, watercraft rescue.

Low priority incidents will be handled on Fire One, since there is minmal radio traffic on this type of incident.

 

[jerk]

Cool, so basically anything that will generate radio traffic back and forth... will be assigned another channel.

What happens if there are three or four incidents at the same time. I know rare, but the County is big enough for this to happen.

Thanks for the update.

 

[searchrescueff]

since most departments have a tactical channel of their own, wouldn't it make sense for the department to just switch over to their channel and use it during the course of the call. Of course the I.C. would have comms with dispatch on Fire 1 as well.

 

[ofd8001]

What if there are three or four simultaneous incidents? We are still in the same boat we have been in - the number of fire channels is the same. Most likely incident 1 goes to fire 2, incident 2 goes to fire 3, incident 3 could go to the rarely used fire 4 and incident 4 remains on fire 1. Shouldn't too much interference on fire 1 in that case because most everyone else would be involved in the first 3 incidents and there ain't much left over.

Each department using their own tactical channel. We've been talking about that, and I'd say doing that might happen when the new radio system is up and running. We might hold off on going to the tactical channels until the fire is under control. It's nice to have the dispatcher listening to us without being distracted. There have been some occasions where something important was said, and the dispatcher was the only one hearing it.

I know this is a big philosophical discussion in the fire service, right up there with what color fire trucks ought to be painted.

 

[searchrescueff]

only curious

I was just curious as to why they don't, seems around half the departments up there have at least one tactical channel to use on their incident scene. That takes the number of channels that can be used, according to the RR database, to 17 channels (not to include IC or HAZMAT channels). Now unless those departments that don't have a tactical channel of their own have runs all at one time, then there shouldn't be a shortage of channels to go to. It would seem to be the practical thing to do. But, what might seem practical to me might be just mind boggling to someone else.
My department will do it down here if there are multiple runs on-going. We will switch over to OUR tactical channel this way we can communicate on scene with each other and the station, and the dispatcher at the station can relay any information on to Central Dispatch on the main fire channel.

BTW, fire trucks ought to be Neon Pink with Safety Orange stripes and Purple flashing lights... LOL :lol: j/k

 

[Halfpint]

BTW, fire trucks ought to be Neon Pink with Safety Orange stripes and Purple flashing lights... LOL :lol: j/k

Now THAT would *possibly* `actually?' make them visible! However... Those purple stobes/flashers should be augmented with some strictly UV ones to help `hi-light' the neon pink / safety orange striped bodies and anything else `day-glo' in the vicinity. {GUFFAW!}

As for the `channel rodeo'... Sounds like someone hired a newbie, probably fresh out of college (College, n: A place where people pay to go to have their common sense removed and other people's drivel driven in it's place.), `efficiency expert' to mess things up. I wonder just who's outlaw... err... inlaw it was?

Just an `Olde Fart's' 2¢ worth. {SNORT!}

 

[ofd8001]

The new radio system will have an ample supply of tactical channels for use. We currently have several.

The issue boils down to a philosophical one, and excellent points can be made for each. A dispatcher listening might hear something otherwise drowned out by other sounds at an emergency scene. A tactical channel with only those at the scene avoids being trampled on by other users.

At this point it is our collective wisdom that we like having the dispatcher monitoring our channels while we are in the midst of firefighting.

 

[searchrescueff]

well, I hope that your dispatch pays attention to what happens on your fire channel more than they do down here. Down here, unless you have law enforcement with you on scene, you might get lucky to get one status check while on scene.

 

[mastr]

well, I hope that your dispatch pays attention...more than they do down here. Down here...you might get lucky to get one status check while on scene.

Yours isn't an unusual situation, with multiple personnel on scene it makes more sense for someone to pick up a radio and call for help if it is needed. Of course, if you guys respond with one man and one truck, that is an entirely different story.

BTW, all fire apparatus should be traffic orange with white reflective striping- and equipped with a Q and Speedograph. (even then some idiot would claim not to see the #$%^ thing)

 

[searchrescueff]

Yours isn't an unusual situation, with multiple personnel on scene it makes more sense for someone to pick up a radio and call for help if it is needed. Of course, if you guys respond with one man and one truck, that is an entirely different story.

We try to respond with a full crew if possible. If we have just a few there, with a few more on the way, we will go ahead and respond first engine and then a second.

As far as the status checks, when we are on scene, dispatch gets notices for status checks (they are logged in the report/fax we get), and never are we checked on unless they (the dispatcher) are a ff themselves. We've gotten to where if no one hears a status check, someone from the station will check on those on scene. Sometimes we've even been known to say "Thanks for checking on us" over the radio when the station has to do it.

OH, and I do agree with firetrucks having a Federal Q on them. they are fun to run in the city you know.. hehe

 

[Surfer240]

Beginning at 8:00 Sunday May 17 there will be a change on how channel assignments are made. Currently all suburban departments are assigned to a channel based on their geographic location. The problem with that is Fire One (154.250) has more radio traffic than Fire Two (154.370) and Fire Three (154.160) put together.

For 60 days we are trying a system where all departments will use Fire One as their primary channel. If a department is dispatched to a high priority incident, they will be instructed to use either Fire Two or Fire Three, whichever isn't committed to an incident. That should dedicate a channel for exclusive use at high priority incidents without someone "walking over" them with some other incident.

High Priority incidents are: Boat fire, chemical spill / fire, collapse – structural, electrical fire or odor, fire alarm – residential or commercial, fire close to structure, type unknown, garage / shed, gas leak - inside, gas leak – outside with fire, mutual aid response, structure fire, water leak/electrical, watercraft rescue.

Low priority incidents will be handled on Fire One, since there is minmal radio traffic on this type of incident.

IMHO:
NOT a very well thought plan, would have better to attemp this AFTER the new radio
system is in effect.
most handelds and probably many mobiles are set to work simplex outside of their own districts.
Many handhelds are not setup to work repeaters outside of their home districts.
take a handheld from a unit in the Fire 1 area and have then work on Fire 3, outside of the
fire 1 geographic area. or take a Fire 3 unit and have them work on fire 1. from their home district.
Simplex VHF freqs. do not work well over great distances with low power..or from behind hills.
..
Just my opinion of course..

 

[Drewstang]

IMHO:
NOT a very well thought plan, would have better to attemp this AFTER the new radio
system is in effect.
most handelds and probably many mobiles are set to work simplex outside of their own districts.
Many handhelds are not setup to work repeaters outside of their home districts.
take a handheld from a unit in the Fire 1 area and have then work on Fire 3, outside of the
fire 1 geographic area. or take a Fire 3 unit and have them work on fire 1. from their home district.
Simplex VHF freqs. do not work well over great distances with low power..or from behind hills.
..
Just my opinion of course..

It was thought out, but not tested at our department until the day of the change. Many of our engines, trucks, rescues, and quads are not programmed to transmit on Fire 1. Our local service provider is still reprograming radios so we can finally use Fire 1 like all the other departments. Command staff has to relay our traffic from our private channel to dispatchers on Fire 1 if Fire 3 (our normal station) is tied up.

With these changes, and unit dispatch, we should be better prepared for the Digital system when it is finally ready for Public Service useage.

 

[ofd8001]

Well, Porter Paint company makes about 350+ different colors of paint. That's because what suits one fancy does not suit another.

I kinda thought it was well thought out. We are going to have to learn new procedures and new radio equipment. I figured it would be easier learning stuff gradually than all at once. We are now working on procedures. A few months down the road when the new equipment hits the street, that's all we'll have to learn equipment.

The "wait until you get the new equipment" thought may not be that great of an idea when you think it through. If we use the system of east being on Fire 1, central Fire 2 and west Fire 3 that means you'd be programming 1/3 of the radios for the home "talkgroup" for Fire X, 1/3 for Fire Y and 1/3 for Fire Z.

If after the new equipment came out, you tried the one primary channel thing and liked it, then you'd have to get 2/3 of the radios programmed a second time to make Fire X their new "home talkgroup".

When you are talking 978 radios to program, you probably ought to have you mind made up the first time.

The problem we had in the beginning, and the dispatching folks dealt with it promptly was that there were more Fire 3 receivers in the west side and not so many Fire 1 receivers. Plus the "default" Fire 1 transmitter is the one located on the east side, and not the one on Mitchell Hill.

When the new system is up and running, we won't see this problem because the receiving locations are the same for all channels. That shouldn't be too far down the road as I believe full testing will start in a couple of weeks, barring unforeseen circumstances.