NXDN Upgrade for BCD436HP and BCD536HP Now Available!

[Jay911]

I'm pretty sure in one of the other threads or even in this thread somebody stated that conventional NXDN was different from other digital modes in the fact that it doesn't use groups.

That was the claim - or at least that there was "a" mode that didn't use TGs (implying there might still be one that does use TGs). I haven't dug into the NXDN spec yet but I thought I received a TG on a conventional channel some years ago with DSD+ (or it could have been DSD at the time). That channel is deprecated now so I can't go back to it to confirm.

Still, if the Uniden is unmuting on the "conventional" channel entry and showing a TG of 0, logic suggests that the OFT entry might open if a TG of 0 is entered. At least that way, if you wanted to assign aliases to UIDs (since the Uniden firmware apparently does not support over-the-air aliases at this point), you could.

 

[jonwienke]

I have yet to try adding a TG 0 to the OFTs to see if that will allow them to receive the NXDN transmissions that come across without talkgroups. I may try that tomorrow.

I tried 0 and got an illegal value error. I had to enter 1 or greater for TGID.

 

[Jay911]

I tried 0 and got an illegal value error. I had to enter 1 or greater for TGID.

Rats. Ok, thanks for saving me some time.

 

[jonwienke]

Still, if the Uniden is unmuting on the "conventional" channel entry and showing a TG of 0, logic suggests that the OFT entry might open if a TG of 0 is entered.

Programming conventional does not show a TGID of 0 in ProScan, the TGID is blank. TGID 0 is an illegal value, at least in a NXDN OFT system.

 

[wx5uif]

Correct. You can have a NXDN conventional channel just using NXDN digital without a talkgroup.

 

[slicerwizard]

I'm pretty sure in one of the other threads or even in this thread somebody stated that conventional NXDN was different from other digital modes in the fact that it doesn't use groups.

A lot of conventional NXDN traffic uses a talkgroup value of zero in the link control data. It's probably not all traffic though.

That was the claim - or at least that there was "a" mode that didn't use TGs (implying there might still be one that does use TGs). I haven't dug into the NXDN spec yet but I thought I received a TG on a conventional channel some years ago with DSD+ (or it could have been DSD at the time).

NXDN link control data out of dsd? You're four days early with that one...

 

[scan-pa]

A lot of conventional NXDN traffic uses a talkgroup value of zero in the link control data. It's probably not all traffic though.



NXDN link control data out of dsd? You're four days early with that one...

I have only ever seen 1 nxdn tg used in a conventional setup, that was tg 100.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[kevino]

Hmmmm....

...debating "LOGICAL Channel Number" vs "Channel Number".

Is it really necessary to replace LCN with CN or are people smart enough to understand they are the same thing?

As I perceive LCN, it is the order in which frequencies are used at a given site and is not necessarily the number a frequency retains system-wide. If a system is large enough (from a geographic standpoint) that a given frequency is used at more than one of that system's sites, it doesn't necessarily retain the same LCN at each of these sites. This applies to DMR and LTR trunked systems.

As far as NXDN / IDAS / Nexedge trunking goes, the scanner needs to know the Channel Number assigned by the system owner/operator to a given frequency. These numbers differ from system to system. This number is assigned to a particular frequency on a system-wide basis and does not change from site to site.

Similar to NXDN, Motorola trunked systems also operates on a "channel number" basis, though there is a standard channel numbering system or "map" used by all Motorola systems that does not change from system to system. Motorola channel numbering maps are programmed into trunktracking scanners and, as such, are much more transparent from an operational standpoint than are NXDN channel numbering schemes.

Clear as mud? ;-) Is that the basic concept here, or am I mistaken?

Kevin

 

[W5RGP]

Tones, or digital hiss/motorboat noise?
Are you sure the broadcast on the frequency is NXDN?

Yep trx1 sitting right beside it both locked on same ch trx1 decodes fine

436 does the motorboat type noise like it’s always done on a nxdn ch before update


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[UPMan]

Motorola only has a standard channel map in 700/800 MHz. In VHF and UHF there is no standard, which is why you have to enter a custom band plan for such systems. The custom band plan tells the scanner how to calculate the frequency based on the LCN received.

 

[UPMan]

Yep trx1 sitting right beside it both locked on same ch trx1 decodes fine

436 does the motorboat type noise like it’s always done on a nxdn ch before update


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the 436, what audio type is the channel set to?

 

[Jay911]

Re: Logical Channel Number vs Channel Number vs whatever else you want to call it.

There are people on the radio system I use, which have migrated through an old EDACS system to a Smartnet system to a SmartZone system to the P25 system. They still call their radio IDs "LIDs" based on the "Logical ID" terminology from the EDACS system.

I know what they're referring to. I don't get all in a froth; I just nod and mentally translate to RID/UID, and carry on with my day

 

[W4KRR]

I'm not used to programming without the software, and I'm having issues.
I successfully programmed a large networked NXDN 48 system, but a couple of NXDN 96 conventional channels at a local business are giving me issues.

DSD+ confirms the channels and RAN numbers. But on the 436, I see full signal strength bars, and "NX9" displayed at the bottom when a channel is active, but I see no frequency in the display, and no audio comes through.

Why does it ask you for a site and a department?

Here is what I am trying to program:

CC Casino
461.575 Security
464.150 Operations

I assume "System" is CC Casino. What about "site", "department", and "channel"?

I tried the correct RAN numbers and also tried RAN search, but still no audio.

 

[jonwienke]

They are probably conventional channels and should be programmed as conventional, not trunked. Program as you would any other conventional freq except you set the RAN instead of a CTCSS tone in the audio options.

 

[mtindor]

I'm not used to programming without the software, and I'm having issues.
I successfully programmed a large networked NXDN 48 system, but a couple of NXDN 96 conventional channels at a local business are giving me issues.

DSD+ confirms the channels and RAN numbers. But on the 436, I see full signal strength bars, and "NX9" displayed at the bottom when a channel is active, but I see no frequency in the display, and no audio comes through.

Why does it ask you for a site and a department?

Here is what I am trying to program:

CC Casino
461.575 Security
464.150 Operations

I assume "System" is CC Casino. What about "site", "department", and "channel"?

I tried the correct RAN numbers and also tried RAN search, but still no audio.

Are you sure it is NXDN48 ? The database lists those as analog - https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=3263

Yes, they have both analog and NXDN48 emissions on the licenses, but they are already known to be active by CC Casino as analog. You might be wasting your time on that one.

Mike

 

[W4KRR]

They are probably conventional channels and should be programmed as conventional, not trunked. Program as you would any other conventional freq except you set the RAN instead of a CTCSS tone in the audio options.

They are conventional. I programmed them as "NXDN One Frequency". Is this not correct?

 

[W4KRR]

Are you sure it is NXDN48 ? The database lists those as analog - https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=3263

Yes, they have both analog and NXDN48 emissions on the licenses, but they are already known to be active by CC Casino as analog. You might be wasting your time on that one.

Mike

Yes; they are still using analog, along with NXDN, mixed in on the same frequencies. I confirmed the NXDN use, and the RAN's, with DSD+ and the Whistler TRX-1.

It's like not all of the staff has NXDN radios yet.

 

[03msc]

They are conventional. I programmed them as "NXDN One Frequency". Is this not correct?

That's for one frequency trunked, isn't it? Needs to be conventional like you would a conventional analog frequency but you select RAN and not a CTCSS or whatever.

 

[mule1075]

That's for one frequency trunked, isn't it? Needs to be conventional like you would a conventional analog frequency but you select RAN and not a CTCSS or whatever.

That is correct.

 

[racingfan360]

Yep trx1 sitting right beside it both locked on same ch trx1 decodes fine
436 does the motorboat type noise like it’s always done on a nxdn ch before update
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Bob, earlier in this thread I reported that I could get NX9600 decodes but nothing on NX4800...here's what I found works for me:

Pre this firmware release, for conventional DMR Simplex decoding, I relied on setting modulation to FM, threshold to manual and as low a level as possible (5), and wait time to 100ms. That also worked for NXDN9600, but doesn't work for NXDN4800. Then I noted the other update in 1.14.00 namely "Improved simplex DMR reception with auto threshold". So I reverted to the default FM, Auto Threshold and 400ms settings. Voila, NXDN4800 works, albeit that it can be a bit hit and miss at times (in the field, vs simplex NXDN, I was getting maybe 80% decodes? the res coming through as NXDN digital noise).

I'd need to do some more extensive testing to work out optimal settings, but this approach works for me....maybe for you too.

Can I also point out that, based on testing so far, conventional DMR Simplex works MUCH better with 1.14.00...so the above settings haven't screwed DMR decoding AFAIK. Possibly seems like receiver sensitivity is reduced, but I'd need to check.

I might have missed a reply in relation to a question on NXDN Alias ID decoding: to confirm, it doesn't have this functionality (so no better or worse than the TRX models)