NXDN Upgrade for BCD436HP and BCD536HP Now Available!

[garys]

Yes. It's all just labeling. As long as we can figure out what information goes there, it's all good. Especially if it doesn't delay updating Sentinel.

Re: Logical Channel Number vs Channel Number vs whatever else you want to call it.

There are people on the radio system I use, which have migrated through an old EDACS system to a Smartnet system to a SmartZone system to the P25 system. They still call their radio IDs "LIDs" based on the "Logical ID" terminology from the EDACS system.

I know what they're referring to. I don't get all in a froth; I just nod and mentally translate to RID/UID, and carry on with my day

 

[jonwienke]

So I reverted to the default FM, Auto Threshold and 400ms settings. Voila, NXDN4800 works, albeit that it can be a bit hit and miss at times (in the field, vs simplex NXDN, I was getting maybe 80% decodes? the res coming through as NXDN digital noise)

FM is wrong, you should use NFM. No flavor of NXDN uses a 25KHz channel width. Everything is 12.5KHz or narrower.

Using FM was a kludge to work around an issue with DMR simplex decoding that has been resolved in the newest firmware.

 

[mtindor]

Yes; they are still using analog, along with NXDN, mixed in on the same frequencies. I confirmed the NXDN use, and the RAN's, with DSD+ and the Whistler TRX-1.

It's like not all of the staff has NXDN radios yet.

Just program it in as a conventional frequency. You can program it in under any existing place where you have conventional frequencies, and then under any existing department if it makes sense.

Worse case scenario:

1. Create New System
2. Name it CC Casino
3. Create New Department
4. Name that Department

In the end, you'll Edit Department, Select the Department, then Edit Channel, then select New Channel.

Then type in the frequency and save it
Edit Name: CC Casino Operations
Set Audio Type: Digital Only - Set NexEdge Ran
Set Modulation: NFM
Set Service Tag: Business

Then back out to "Select Channel", add the other frequency, and repeat by editing the options on it.

Hope that helps. This is probably not the place to be asking about programming, so I won't respond further in order to avoid further clutter. No offense should be taken. I just know I'll get smacked down for continued instructions like this, in this particular thread

Mike

 

[racingfan360]

FM is wrong, you should use NFM. No flavor of NXDN uses a 25KHz channel width. Everything is 12.5KHz or narrower.
Using FM was a kludge to work around an issue with DMR simplex decoding that has been resolved in the newest firmware.

Yes, thank you. As you know, DMR isn't 25kHz either but that didn't help get the decoding to work. As I stated "I'd need to do some more extensive testing to work out optimal settings".

I, and I'm sure others, would appreciate reports on what actually works and doesn't work in real world experiments.

 

[jonwienke]

Yes; they are still using analog, along with NXDN, mixed in on the same frequencies.

Then program the freqs as NFM conventional, and select Search as the audio type so it will pick up analog or digital on the freq. Change the 400ms to 0, or you will miss the first 400ms of EVERY transmission.

 

[jonwienke]

I, and I'm sure others, would appreciate reports on what actually works and doesn't work in real world experiments.

Which I have done, and is why I recommend NFM.

 

[woodpecker]

It trunks. That's why there is a charge. (royalties to be paid to DVSI)

DVSI royalties are for the voice codec which is the same for P2 and DMR, nothing to do with trunking.

 

[racingfan360]

Which I have done, and is why I recommend NFM.

Thanks. What about wait time....are you also finding 400ms works best, or something different?

 

[jonwienke]

0. With any non-zero setting, the first x milliseconds of the transmission are cut off while the scanner waits to decide if the transmission is digital or analog.

You may get a few beats of digital static at the beginning of some transmissions if reception is marginal, but IMO that is better than having every transmission clipped.

 

[racingfan360]

0. With any non-zero setting, the first x milliseconds of the transmission are cut off while the scanner waits to decide if the transmission is digital or analog. You may get a few beats of digital static at the beginning of some transmissions if reception is marginal, but IMO that is better than having every transmission clipped.

Thanks...clipping is definitely an issue with the TRX models - it is more noticeable. To date, In my experience, with the 436 on marginal (so usually simplex) NXDN signals it feels like the digital static (aka the time it take to figure out if it's analogue or digital. and then which variant of digital) is actually taking longer with a shorter wait time. Of course it would benefit from more testing to prove if that was more or less likely in real world.

 

[shadcall]

I have updated the firmware and got the NXDN upgrade. Thanks UPMan for this and for the great introductory price. It's nice to have a top quality scanner capable of decoding DMR, ProVoice and now NXDN.

 

[jonwienke]

Thanks...clipping is definitely an issue with the TRX models - it is more noticeable. To date, In my experience, with the 436 on marginal (so usually simplex) NXDN signals it feels like the digital static (aka the time it take to figure out if it's analogue or digital. and then which variant of digital) is actually taking longer with a shorter wait time.

Not really. Clipping off the front of the transmission just hides part of the decision-making process. Overall detection time is the same regardless.

If digital detection takes 200ms, if you have wait time set to 100ms, you hear 100ms of static on a digital transmission. If it is set to 0, you hear 200ms. But if you use 100ms, you clip off the first 100ms of EVERY transmission.

 

[Voyager]

I'm pretty sure in one of the other threads or even in this thread somebody stated that conventional NXDN was different from other digital modes in the fact that it doesn't use groups.[/QUOTE]

Correct. NXDN has a mode that uses the digital format without TGs.

For conventional, program as conventional. For trunked, program as trunked. For single frequency that uses TGs, either program as conventional to hear everything or program as OFT to be able to select which TGs you hear.

 

[Voyager]

Motorola only has a standard channel map in 700/800 MHz. In VHF and UHF there is no standard, which is why you have to enter a custom band plan for such systems. The custom band plan tells the scanner how to calculate the frequency based on the LCN received.

And for P25 systems, it gets this from the control channel.

 

[Voyager]

Not really. Clipping off the front of the transmission just hides part of the decision-making process. Overall detection time is the same regardless.

If digital detection takes 200ms, if you have wait time set to 100ms, you hear 100ms of static on a digital transmission. If it is set to 0, you hear 200ms. But if you use 100ms, you clip off the first 100ms of EVERY transmission.

The solution is to program that channel as Digital Only.

 

[Voyager]

DVSI royalties are for the voice codec which is the same for P2 and DMR, nothing to do with trunking.

You license the trunking format to legally use it. Maybe it's not DVSI, but someone is getting paid for it from Uniden.

 

[jonwienke]

The solution is to program that channel as Digital Only.

Ordinarily, yes. But that doesn't work if both analog and digital traffic is on the same frequency.

 

[W4KRR]

Ordinarily, yes. But that doesn't work if both analog and digital traffic is on the same frequency.

I had to program the NXDN digital channels separately from the analog channels on the same frequency. If I selected "All" for the modulation type, I got only digital noise when NXDN was transmitting. I had to select "Digital Only" and then "Search" for the modulation type, and that worked. I programmed the analog channels "Analog Only" and then programmed the proper DCS code.

 

[jonwienke]

I guess that works.

The NXDN stuff I've programmed so far has all been digital, so I've used NFM + digital search or the RAN code.

 

[Voyager]

Ordinarily, yes. But that doesn't work if both analog and digital traffic is on the same frequency.

Let's explore that for a second.

If you program the channel for both, you get the delay (I'll use the above example of 200 mS) for analog.

If you program the channel twice - once as analog only then again as digital only (with the analog channel first), you have the delay of determining that the analog channel is not analog. That might take 50 mS (since it has to only determine that there is data and not what type). Then it moves on to the digital channel and instantly decodes.

I can't say the above is 100% accurate on the timing figures, but I believe it's overall still faster programming separate channels.