OC Fire and OC Sheriff squabble over Laguna Beach rescue - Raw Audio

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krazybob

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I was I was on this mission and there was no back and forth about whose job it was. The sheriff's department Helo set down and its crew was joined by members of the County Fire Department. They worked as a team. It's also gone the other way around before as well.

HIKER RESCUED FOREST FALLS

Hiker rescued by SB County Air Rescue after falling approximately 30 feet in Big Falls, Forest Falls

DATE/TIME:Wednesday, February 7, 2018 / 3:00 p.m.
INCIDENT:Hoist Rescue
LOCATION:Big Falls, Forest Falls
VICTim:Christina Farrell, 29 years old, resident of Yucaipa

SUMMARY:

On February 7, 2018, Farrell was hiking the area known as Big Falls in Forest Falls. Big Falls is a series of connected water falls, some of which are 30 feet in height. While climbing down, Farrell slipped and fell approximately 30 feet to the rocks below. Farrell suffered major injuries during the fall and witnesses called 911.

Medical personnel requested San Bernardino County Air Rescue 06 to assist. The crew, which consisted of personnel from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department and the San Bernardino County Fire Department... responded and located Farrell at the base of the falls. They determined a hoist rescue would be required based on Farrell’s location.

The crew set up and performed a hoist rescue of Farrell. After she was secure in the helicopter, Farrell was flown to a local area hospital with non-life threatening injuries.l








 
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krazybob

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I was on this mission on the ground and there was no back and forth about whose job it was. The sheriff's department Helo set down and its crew was joined by members of the County Fire Department. They worked as a team. It's also gone the other way around before as well.

HIKER RESCUED FOREST FALLS

Hiker rescued by SB County Air Rescue after falling approximately 30 feet in Big Falls, Forest Falls

DATE/TIME:Wednesday, February 7, 2018 / 3:00 p.m.
INCIDENT:Hoist Rescue
LOCATION:Big Falls, Forest Falls
VICTim:Christina Farrell, 29 years old, resident of Yucaipa

SUMMARY:

On February 7, 2018, Farrell was hiking the area known as Big Falls in Forest Falls. Big Falls is a series of connected water falls, some of which are 30 feet in height. While climbing down, Farrell slipped and fell approximately 30 feet to the rocks below. Farrell suffered major injuries during the fall and witnesses called 911.

Medical personnel requested San Bernardino County Air Rescue 06 to assist. The crew, which consisted of personnel from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department and the San Bernardino County Fire Department... responded and located Farrell at the base of the falls. They determined a hoist rescue would be required based on Farrell’s location.

The crew set up and performed a hoist rescue of Farrell. After she was secure in the helicopter, Farrell was flown to a local area hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

You'll notice in the first picture SO is lowering Fire down. Teamwork is what its about.







 

jrholm

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Recently worked a rescue near the old Mmt Baldy ski resort. LASD, SBSO, and both county FD'S integratted seamlesssly. I think some people in OC need to grow the F up
 

PaulNDaOC

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You would think auto-aid would have already established a better tone at OCFA where they should already understand the county way is not the only way.

I can see how that prevailed 40 years ago, but jeesh, this is childish.

I can't even imagine something like this during my LASD days.

I will never forget the Whittier officer death last year where everybody fell all over themselves trying to help Whittier. Norwalk couldn't get there fast enough and helped in every aspect imaginable. Other agencies' cops volunteered to patrol so they could mourn for a day.

This has to be quashed right away. They are all on the same mission, and employed by the same taxpayers. Time to get along.
 

allend

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Heard thru people that know work in OC communication and comm techs that everything including RED - AIRCALL and public works and Lifeguards to pretty much the whole system once fully upgraded will go encrypted by December 1st. This is the cutover date.

Now what happens to fire is unknown but most likely some of those talkgroups will go bye bye too.

Not sure if other people have heard anything but it all makes sense since every TRS system moving forward is following suit. Taking this will a grain of salt now but with the trend of what's been going on in SOCAL this past few years this seems to be true whats going to happen.
 

krazybob

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Heard thru people that know work in OC communication and comm techs that everything including RED - AIRCALL and public works and Lifeguards to pretty much the whole system once fully upgraded will go encrypted by December 1st. This is the cutover date.

Now what happens to fire is unknown but most likely some of those talkgroups will go bye bye too.

Not sure if other people have heard anything but it all makes sense since every TRS system moving forward is following suit. Taking this will a grain of salt now but with the trend of what's been going on in SOCAL this past few years this seems to be true whats going to happen.
We need to be careful that we don't get into a discussion on the merits of encryption and break the rules of the site. I hope I'm not walking too close to the edge when I say WTF? When these agencies do these things that means that Mutual Aid agencies need to do the same things. Does this mean that the Coast Guard is going to go encrypted to talk to the lifeguards? I guess Motorola has done a great job convincing DHS that anything and everything Public Safety needs to be encrypted. I gave up on Orange County years ago and that includes fire. I can hear them from here loud and clear. I can hear them on FIREMARS simplex. I've got a 6 DB gain collinear external base antenna that's only fed with lmr400 but it does a pretty damn good job. I always had this dream that if I like won that half a billion dollar lottery I would take on Orange County but now it's San Bernardino because they're broke more than Orange County is. They ain't got no money! Living in the mountains as I do I feel it imperative that I be able to listen to the communications as I see the fire burning up the hill side towards me. But that's technology. Thanks for the heads up. There's another couple of radios I can pull out of the rack. One day someone's going to figure out the encryption algorithm... We've got the computing power already.

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allend

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We need to be careful that we don't get into a discussion on the merits of encryption and break the rules of the site. I hope I'm not walking too close to the edge when I say WTF? When these agencies do these things that means that Mutual Aid agencies need to do the same things. Does this mean that the Coast Guard is going to go encrypted to talk to the lifeguards? I guess Motorola has done a great job convincing DHS that anything and everything Public Safety needs to be encrypted. I gave up on Orange County years ago and that includes fire. I can hear them from here loud and clear. I can hear them on FIREMARS simplex. I've got a 6 DB gain collinear external base antenna that's only fed with lmr400 but it does a pretty damn good job. I always had this dream that if I like won that half a billion dollar lottery I would take on Orange County but now it's San Bernardino because they're broke more than Orange County is. They ain't got no money! Living in the mountains as I do I feel it imperative that I be able to listen to the communications as I see the fire burning up the hill side towards me. But that's technology. Thanks for the heads up. There's another couple of radios I can pull out of the rack. One day someone's going to figure out the encryption algorithm... We've got the computing power already.

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I get it we need to be careful. The only reason why I bring this up is because this kind of information moving forward down the road with the squabble between LE and Fire will go away since we will not hear about these incidents anymore down the road. I think giving up on OC years ago was the best thing that happened to you. Its a brutal county now with regards to their communication decision moving forward
 

PaulNDaOC

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I get it we need to be careful. The only reason why I bring this up is because this kind of information moving forward down the road with the squabble between LE and Fire will go away since we will not hear about these incidents anymore down the road. I think giving up on OC years ago was the best thing that happened to you. Its a brutal county now with regards to their communication decision moving forward
I do not agree that we heard about this because of analog communications. It blew up in the public eye for other reasons. The ability to hear the recordings did serve the purpose of being able to form our own opinions on what was said and occurred and not what we are told. This was going public regardless.

The only difference down the road if this scenario were to occur again in an all-encrypted world is we would not be listening to recordings of it without having to file an FOIA request for them.

It would be correct to state that we would not hear about any similar incident that does not blow up like this one did in the future if we were unable to monitor.

One can probably make a case that ability to heat incidents like this does help to some degree encourage agencies to play together nicely, ensuring better service provided to the public.
 
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krazybob

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I do not agree that we heard about this because of analog communications. It blew up in the public eye for other reasons. The ability to hear the recordings did serve the purpose of being able to form our own opinions on what was said and occurred and not what we are told. This was going public regardless.

The only difference down the road if this scenario were to occur again in an all-encrypted world is we would not be listening to recordings of it without having to file an FOIA request for them.

It would be correct to state that we would not hear about any similar incident that does not blow up like this one did in the future if we were unable to monitor.

One can probably make a case that ability to heat incidents like this does help to some degree encourage agencies to play together nicely, ensuring better service provided to the public.
I think that you're right on the money, Paul. This really isn't about the format being used. I remember the days when OC was analog FM. As I recall they were in the 460 band. One of the things that disturbs me, and again this isn't in regards to the mode of transmission, is the ability for the entity to hide from the public. How can you FOIA records for an incident you never heard about?

Many of you recall roughly 105 years ago when the Orange County Sheriff, Carona, was convicted of obstruction of justice and witness tampering and was sentenced to 66 months in prison. After spending roughly 4 years in the hospital ward in Lexington, Colorado he was released to home confinement.

The Assistant Sheriff, Don Haidl, now deceased, had a son Greg, involved in the rape of an extremely intoxicated 16 year old girl on a pool table where they tag teamed her. While on probation for this he was caught selling marijuana in large quantity. The deputies that had tried to hide behind the mobile data terminal with their discussion of how to handle it were outted. It was FOIA'd and the truth was ultimately learned.

Much of this because Orange County used encrypted communications. What will be the next cover up aided by technology? Does anyone know of anyone that has ever used a scanner or a cell phone online scanner while committing a crime? I know it's been done but so infrequently as to not justify encryption for officer safety reasons or to catch suspects in the billions of dollars nationwide going to Motorola. I will agree that certain talk groups for Narcotics, gangs, and terrorist activities could or should be encrypted but not routine dispatches and responses.

I don't want to get any closer to the line this board has on the topic.

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krazybob

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I think that you're right on the money, Paul. This really isn't about the format being used. I remember the days when OC was analog FM. As I recall they were in the 460 band. One of the things that disturbs me, and again this isn't in regards to the mode of transmission, is the ability for the entity to hide from the public. How can you FOIA records for an incident you never heard about?

Many of you recall roughly 105 years ago when the Orange County Sheriff, Carona, was convicted of obstruction of justice and witness tampering and was sentenced to 66 months in prison. After spending roughly 4 years in the hospital ward in Lexington, Colorado he was released to home confinement.

The Assistant Sheriff, Don Haidl, now deceased, had a son Greg, involved in the rape of an extremely intoxicated 16 year old girl on a pool table where they tag teamed her. While on probation for this he was caught selling marijuana in large quantity. The deputies that had tried to hide behind the mobile data terminal with their discussion of how to handle it were outted. It was FOIA'd and the truth was ultimately learned.

Much of this because Orange County used encrypted communications. What will be the next cover up aided by technology? Does anyone know of anyone that has ever used a scanner or a cell phone online scanner while committing a crime? I know it's been done but so infrequently as to not justify encryption for officer safety reasons or to catch suspects in the billions of dollars nationwide going to Motorola. I will agree that certain talk groups for Narcotics, gangs, and terrorist activities could or should be encrypted but not routine dispatches and responses.

I don't want to get any closer to the line this board has on the topic.

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Make that 15 years and not 105 years. Lol.

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PaulNDaOC

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I think that you're right on the money, Paul. This really isn't about the format being used. I remember the days when OC was analog FM. As I recall they were in the 460 band. One of the things that disturbs me, and again this isn't in regards to the mode of transmission, is the ability for the entity to hide from the public. How can you FOIA records for an incident you never heard about?

Many of you recall roughly 105 years ago when the Orange County Sheriff, Carona, was convicted of obstruction of justice and witness tampering and was sentenced to 66 months in prison. After spending roughly 4 years in the hospital ward in Lexington, Colorado he was released to home confinement.

The Assistant Sheriff, Don Haidl, now deceased, had a son Greg, involved in the rape of an extremely intoxicated 16 year old girl on a pool table where they tag teamed her. While on probation for this he was caught selling marijuana in large quantity. The deputies that had tried to hide behind the mobile data terminal with their discussion of how to handle it were outted. It was FOIA'd and the truth was ultimately learned.

Much of this because Orange County used encrypted communications. What will be the next cover up aided by technology? Does anyone know of anyone that has ever used a scanner or a cell phone online scanner while committing a crime? I know it's been done but so infrequently as to not justify encryption for officer safety reasons or to catch suspects in the billions of dollars nationwide going to Motorola. I will agree that certain talk groups for Narcotics, gangs, and terrorist activities could or should be encrypted but not routine dispatches and responses.

I don't want to get any closer to the line this board has on the topic.

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I was at a large agency dispatching 15 years and came across scanner equipped crooks just a few times that I was aware of, and that is the sort of thing that would have been brought to my attention. And I can tell you over the course of probably 20 plus sergeants as watch commander, we had some that were real hobby friendly (theboundaries for lapd divisions, them what frey were hamsters as was I) and were proud to show off the facility, to the paranoid about everything, which probably goes a long way in explaining a shift to p25 phase 2 and possibly an encryption, and only because a desire for a M-F work schedule and a desire to promote, he happened to be the Admin guy that could attend those type of meetings. There were never any incidents where listening to our system created issues other than the occasional hamster coming up and doing an unauthorized radio check. The advantage of Ham volunteers, and search & rescue being able to access tac channels on for say a King Radio far outweighed the negative.

With all the agencies there are in the region and jagged, gerrymandering boundaries there is hardly a crook out there that figure out, city, county area, crossed into new city, LAPD div boundaries, CHP, then frequencies to monitor, codes and lingo, and pick it out while high on crack and jumping over a liquor store counter, the chances are not good.for the typical lame criminal.

On the flip side a smart one that was already schooled in Scanner 101 could have a great time for a while, especially if one took the time to learn shift changes, or activity level/unit status of the area you want to hit. But it just soesn't happen because the intelligent can make a better living with a job at Northrup, plus even bad cops that get fired get caught all the time robbing banks. Institutional knowledge is never an insurance policy an off-duty cop isn't in the same bank you are robbing.

I vaguely member the Haidl MDT thing, so I don't remember the context of the messages. You could have had willing players to a cover-up, but it was more likely, I'm going to pass the buck and not commit career suicide over this. I can understand that view also because back then there was a lot more tolerance and ability to screw with a cop that did not handle this the way Carona would have wanted,and your days would have been numbered. Not saying it was right. It was just the reality of the times.
 
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krazybob

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And again you're right on the money. In my days in law enforcement I didn't have a single time when a scanner user committed a crime that I am unaware of or any other officer that had a suspect using a scanner. Using a burglary as an example, they're in and out in 90 seconds or less. They know how long it takes the unit to get on scene and if it happens to be LAPD you knows it it may be an hour before unit gets there. It takes at least 90 seconds from call take her to the dispatchers microphone to begin with.

But you hit the nail on the head when you talked about volunteer services. Once I was injured the best I could do was work temporarily as a volunteer and we had 50 square miles of search area to cover for a missing person that later became a homicide victim. That was 32,000 acres to search. We even had a drone long before you could buy one online. I had made arrangements with the search-and-rescue coordinator to use their repeater in that area. As it would turn out an actual search was taking place and our repeater was coincidentally offline. That didn't stop me because I put together a cross band repeater. The search and rescue group happen to be a volunteer Christian organization with their own UHF GMRS radios. Pursuant to FCC regulations to licensed Radio Service could be linked in an emergency situation. We did just that.

I had set it up using a simple discone antenna and it worked beautifully from atop a 4000 foot mountain. I called the emergency number for American Tower and let them know I had placed an emergency repeater on top of their Conex for the duration of the day and got an incident number. Everything was straight. 100 miles away where another rescue was taking place they can hear us and we could hear them so we simply appended our location with the word "control" after it to differentiate who was hearing whom.

But today now that the agency has gone encrypted I would not be able to have done that and our mission would have been a failure. 50 square miles is a large area to cover from ground-level mobiles to 1 watt handhelds. It's all about lobbyists in Washington DC from Motorola and Tait and various other organizations telling them why they need encryption when for the most they don't. The day LAPD goes encrypted is the day that Uniden will effectively stop making scanners I suppose.

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bb911

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... Once I was injured the best I could do was work temporarily as a volunteer and we had 50 square miles of search area to cover for a missing person that later became a homicide victim. That was 32,000 acres to search. We even had a drone long before you could buy one online..

...The day LAPD goes encrypted is the day that Uniden will effectively stop making scanners I suppose.

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I live in San Bernardino Co., CA. When did the above SAR mission occur? I'd like to read more about it.

Also, why would LAPD going encrypted cause Uniden to stop making scanners?
 

krazybob

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bb911

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The incident I mentioned is true which I believe is the real question. It was the murder of Leisa Hurst. I have the full audio recording of the sunrise to sunset search on another PC. https://leisahurst.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/48-hours-mystery-body-of-lies-full-story/

My opinion re: LAPD is based on market conditions. When the big three are all encrypted (NYPD/Chicago/LAPD) I believe we will see a shift.
Thanks for the link. I found more about the recovery searches on the net.

I had no idea that NYPD/Chicago PD/LAPD accounted for such a large % of Uniden's scanner sales market.
 

krazybob

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There is more information offline. I deliberately didn't post it because this isn't about me. I'm no one important. As surprising as it may be to some our rapid response vehicles are code 3 equipped. Training is extensive. In fact for those that take advantage it results in becoming a certified fire fighter and not just FEMA certificates on the walls. I keep mine in a deployment book with my County ID, OES Disaster Responder ID, FEMA ID, ham radio license, and the all important Red Card. All personnel at at the ICP must have a basic wild land certification. It lists all training you are certified in, such as wild land fire fighting, SCBA, EMR, EMT, paramedic, HazMat, EVOC, county radio training, and on. Some of us could be forward deployed in a fire to provide radio relays, install repeaters, provide video feeds, etc. Some of us have SAR training. ECS members are county employees.

Leisa Hurst Search #2

I was honored to present the map of the grid search areas to the family as the sun dropped. I drove back up to Quartzite and pulled the cross band repeater.

The official vehicles have had radio updates (encryption) but fire is not encrypted. They are still analog. But POV's with type accepted equipment have not. Certain operators have county identifiers that allows for coming up on the VHF repeaters, CALFIRE and SBNF/ANF/CNF provided they have type accepted commercial equipment. I use a Motorola Astro Spectra VHF P25 110 watt 255 channels plus a duplicate 800. I carry a XTS 5000 P25.

At the end of the day, who care? LOL.
 

bb911

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Who cares? I know that the FD and LEO agencies care.

I don't understand which 'agency' that you volunteer with. Given all of your other posts here on RR, I had to deduce that it was a volunteer church 'group', rather than an agency. I know that you were/are not a PCF with San Bernardino Co. FD, as you stated elsewhere on RR.

Volunteer church groups have rapid response vehicles that are code 3 equipped? More on that please.

ECS members are not county employees. They are volunteers that must go through background checks, just as the SO SAR members must.. That's very basic knowledge regarding the program. Ditto for ESS volunteers.

Also, you wrote, "Training is extensive. In fact for those that take advantage it results in becoming a certified fire fighter and not just FEMA certificates on the walls." That's incorrect. Or, at least it was just about one year ago.

I don't have time right now to discuss the many other topics worthy of discussion in your post. Also, this thread has gotten way OT.

There is more information offline. I deliberately didn't post it because this isn't about me. I'm no one important. As surprising as it may be to some our rapid response vehicles are code 3 equipped. Training is extensive. In fact for those that take advantage it results in becoming a certified fire fighter and not just FEMA certificates on the walls. I keep mine in a deployment book with my County ID, OES Disaster Responder ID, FEMA ID, ham radio license, and the all important Red Card. All personnel at at the ICP must have a basic wild land certification. It lists all training you are certified in, such as wild land fire fighting, SCBA, EMR, EMT, paramedic, HazMat, EVOC, county radio training, and on. Some of us could be forward deployed in a fire to provide radio relays, install repeaters, provide video feeds, etc. Some of us have SAR training. ECS members are county employees.

Leisa Hurst Search #2

I was honored to present the map of the grid search areas to the family as the sun dropped. I drove back up to Quartzite and pulled the cross band repeater.

The official vehicles have had radio updates (encryption) but fire is not encrypted. They are still analog. But POV's with type accepted equipment have not. Certain operators have county identifiers that allows for coming up on the VHF repeaters, CALFIRE and SBNF/ANF/CNF provided they have type accepted commercial equipment. I use a Motorola Astro Spectra VHF P25 110 watt 255 channels plus a duplicate 800. I carry a XTS 5000 P25.

At the end of the day, who care? LOL.
 
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krazybob

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Who cares? I know that the FD and LEO agencies care.

I don't understand which 'agency' that you volunteer with. Given all of your other posts here on RR, I had to deduce that it was a volunteer church 'group', rather than an agency. I know that you were/are not a PCF with San Bernardino Co. FD, as you stated elsewhere on RR.

Volunteer church groups have rapid response vehicles that are code 3 equipped? More on that please.

ECS members are not county employees. They are volunteers that must go through background checks, just as the SO SAR members must.. That's very basic knowledge regarding the program. Ditto for ESS volunteers.

Also, you wrote, "Training is extensive. In fact for those that take advantage it results in becoming a certified fire fighter and not just FEMA certificates on the walls." That's incorrect. Or, at least it was just about one year ago.

I don't have time right now to discuss the many other topics worthy of discussion in your post. Also, this thread has gotten way OT.
And this why I have not previously provided information. I knew that you would pick it apart and try to make it what you just did. No, I don't work for a church group. Contained therein there's a picture of me standing with one of the agency reps. It just shows how little you know about San Bernardino County. Have a nice day.

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bb911

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"
And this why I have not previously provided information. I knew that you would pick it apart and try to make it what you just did. No, I don't work for a church group. Contained therein there's a picture of me standing with one of the agency reps. It just shows how little you know about San Bernardino County. Have a nice day.

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If you wouldn't write such misinformation then there would be no need for anyone to 'tear it down'. I'm not sure what you're suggesting regarding the photo. In light of your posts on this thread, I think that San Bernardino Co. FD may like to see the photo, as I'm sure you already know.

You wrote and posted Leisa Hurst Search #2. I bothered to check it, and the date on it is Feb. 7, 2009. The second search didn't take place until Feb. 21, 2009. It's not just a typo., as anyone who reads the article can ascertain.

You wrote on a Ham radio forum in Dec. of 2017:

"Yes, gotta love the wannabees. Some took the huge amount of free training and ended up certified as a Wildland Fire Fighter. Some have gone on to become Paid Call (PCF's) and full time FF's. Volunteers get HazMat certified. SCBA certified. S130/S190 certified, fire weather and behavior as related to S130/S190 course, a full list if ICS certifications, etc., etc. A Red Card? Yes - those that seek higher training. How about EMT? Some do - those that seek higher training. How about SAR training? Yep, some do - those that choose to extend their training. ICS-300? ICS-400? Got 'em. Red carded volunteers actually work as forward radio relays and video among other higher risk field positions. In order to work the fire ICP or camps one has to be red carded and possess full brush turn out equipment. The level of training is linked to the fact that the San Bernardino National Forest holds the record as the forest fire capitol, and the County of San Bernardino is the largest in the United States. Being a ham is not required but is definitely a plus since communications occur on the county frequencies and amateur."

Frighteningly familiar, but even more bizarre then your post here. Who are the wannabees?

On the same forum and thread quoted above, you wrote:

"There are too many emergency groups!!!

Here in southern California I operate the Southern California Emergency Communications Service Group. Besides three repeaters under my control there are others. Our repeaters are used as needed with no group allowed to claim occupancy.

My issue is that there are too may disparate groups. Red Cross, CERT, Salvation Army, County, State ERC, Mormon ERC... instead of so may different groups how about coming together? That won't happen. Each group wants to claim its piece of the pie for whatever reason. I know of one group that brags that its members are the best ICS trained in the country. I know they are because I are one. How about spreading the structured knowledge to others." No comment necessary.

I noticed that you have a vanity call for your So California Emergency Communications Service Group repeater, K6ECS. Just coincidence that San Bernardino Co. has a volunteer ham radio group: ECS? (as previously mentioned).

I wrote: "I don't have time right now to discuss the many other topics worthy of discussion in your post. Also, this thread has gotten way OT." Well, I found the time, and the topic doesn't seem to be too far OT, since you've made several lengthy posts on this thread which contain incorrect information regarding the topic.
 
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