OK Upman I'm ready for a permanent fix for the time reset

[phillydjdan]

Boy, you kids sure don't know when to quit. I thought *I* was bad...

 

[trentbob]

... thanks Dan... check your G mail...

 

[Grego]

Recently our fire department and county moved to the P2 system. I asked one of the fire Captains how he liked the new system and he sighted a lot of the same audio issues that our scanners have and their units are considerably more expensive than hours. So my feelings are that our listening pleasure depends on how well the system is tuned. The systems seem to take time settle down.

 

[Grego]

Recently our fire department and county moved to the P2 system. I asked one of the fire Captains how he liked the new system and he sighted a lot of the same audio issues that our scanners have and their units are considerably more expensive than ours. So my feelings are that our listening pleasure depends on how well the system is tuned. The systems seem to take time settle down.

 

[phillydjdan]

Yes, Grego, system settings matter, even with the Motorola radios. If the technicians who put the system in place don't set it up properly, the whole thing will sound like garbage. A lot of it comes down to certain settings in the radio's programming software that many techs don't bother to change from the defaults. Audio quality CAN suffer if this isn't touched. There is some discussion on other forum sites about using different settings for different users (firefighters versus motorcycle cops versus dispatch consoles, etc). All have varying needs as far as background noise filtering, etc. If the system is optimized for you, the radio (and likely scanners also) will be that much better to listen to.

 

[marksmith]

... I'd rather drive a Pinto that runs well over a Mustang with flat tires and headlights that don't work... to those who have no problems with the x36's you are very, very lucky, hang on to them, they must be great radios, I can only dream what that would be like... many of us are not that lucky... show some understanding here... I need good dependable police and fire radios that have clear p25 digital audio and bright bold displays... my GRE's (1095) do that, digital on my x36's is muffled and garbled and I can't read the displays so all the great features don't mean anything to me... I need performance and dependability to do my job...

Exactly. I guess some guys just don't get it that no matter how you brag up the features of a radio, NONE of those features really exist if the "flagship" radio is laying on the floor on the closet because you can't see the display.

So you can list features all day. If it's a piece of (expensive) junk you can't use, it does not have any of the features on the list unless you have listed boat anchor or doorstop. So give me the Pinto.

Mark
536/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/
396XT/PSR800/PRO668/PRO652

 

[SOFA_KING]

Yes, Grego, system settings matter, even with the Motorola radios. If the technicians who put the system in place don't set it up properly, the whole thing will sound like garbage. A lot of it comes down to certain settings in the radio's programming software that many techs don't bother to change from the defaults. Audio quality CAN suffer if this isn't touched. There is some discussion on other forum sites about using different settings for different users (firefighters versus motorcycle cops versus dispatch consoles, etc). All have varying needs as far as background noise filtering, etc. If the system is optimized for you, the radio (and likely scanners also) will be that much better to listen to.

THAT is the truth, right there. Even squelch settings in the radio software need to be lowered from factory settings to get extended range. All the parameters in a radio can be optimized to make a radio great, but often factory defaults are used because someone doesn't want to bother, doesn't know better, or time (equaling money) is not allowed. You have to get it right on the master templates so each radio that gets cloned is also right. That is how you beat the time factor. But now we have IT guys (who know nothing about RF or analog electronics...or any electronics for that matter) working in radio departments. Go figure!

BOT - I wonder if UPMan is even working there anymore. ??? Perhaps they are about to fold. Will we even see any progress on issues being made, much less the features (like the Siren app and server) being fully completed? I have my doubts.

As far as this stupid "lawsuit" garbage, and the insignificant "corporate defender" that won't shut his mouth, I could care less. I never heard someone try so hard to pretend to know everything make such a fool of himself that much before. Some people just have to call attention to themselves all the time, no matter how wrong they are. Look at me...look at me!

 

[wise871]

I just want the scanners fixed and the features announced in 2013 to work, plan and simple. Is it that too much to ask for? I have (3) 536 and (1) 436 invested in this venture so as a member of the 2K club I have a right to be upset when Uniden fails to produce what they advertised and new problems have developed. I am tired of being jerked around like many others with these basic updates and silence. Fix the !@#$ problems. It's been 18 months and there is no excuse. Hell you could have designed and built a new scanner by now. The x36 has turned this forum into a mess. Don't forget If it wasn't for the members paying subscription fees and submitting daily information to the database then were would the Uniden HP scanner be? Did I say that out-loud? :roll:

Note: If I just wanted a Phase 2 scanner with the HP features then I would have just gotten the HP-2. Wait, I already have one and guess what, it works as advertised.

Also note that Uniden American is proofing all post to there FaceBook page. Any questions related to scanners are not being allowed on the Post-by-Page. What is up with that?

 

[mikewazowski]

Moved to the Tavern.

 

[rwier]

" ... pretend to know everything make such a fool of himself ... "

RR Forums has an "iggy" option.

 

[Boatanchor]

Also note that Uniden American is proofing all post to there FaceBook page. Any questions related to scanners are not being allowed on the Post-by-Page. What is up with that?

Not all publicity is good publicity and negative social commentary does matter

The official comments that I have read from the company seem to indicate that radio comms and scanners are more important to the company's bottom line than some people are led to believe.

 

[Voyager]

So my feelings are that our listening pleasure depends on how well the system is tuned.

I've been saying that for many years. Of course the haters refuse to believe that is possible. But, it's what they do.

 

[Voyager]

RR Forums has an "iggy" option.

Yes - the ultimate ostrich option...

 

[MTS2000des]

THAT is the truth, right there. Even squelch settings in the radio software need to be lowered from factory settings to get extended range.

Oh really? please explain to me where in Astro 25 CPS one goes to "adjust the squelch" on an Astro 25 subscriber radio to "get extended range" on a TRUNKED personality for a trunking system.

You have to get it right on the master templates so each radio that gets cloned is also right.

No argument there, but any agency with competent people on their radio team will vet the templates BEFORE finalizing them and catch any errors or issues.

All the parameters in a radio can be optimized to make a radio great,

Not true, there are many settings that should be left alone unless the programmer is experienced with aligning a radio and has the correct test gear to do so, you know, like an Aeroflex 3920B handy and have discussed with the system engineers the changes to certain fields in subscriber setup that should be left to factory defaults. If one is just adding talkgroups or changing user ergonomics, they should not dicker with performance related settings like ISP sequence length, maximum slot size, forced unmute timing, etc. unless the system engineers recommend changes.

AGC settings on transmit audio profiles only affect outgoing TX audio and don't impact RX performance at all.

All of this was covered in manufacturer based subscriber training, and I'm sure you took that in your career development.

But now we have IT guys (who know nothing about RF or analog electronics...or any electronics for that matter) working in radio departments. Go figure!

And most modern digital radio systems are nothing but IP based communication systems that happen to use LMR RF as a "last mile", so the typical "IT guy" probably could do a better job managing such a network than some old school radio tech with his diddlesticks and sig gens.

Bottom line is it takes BOTH. A good radio team will have a good mix of both people who work together to make a network shine.

Don't knock the IT guys, they will be the ones you call when an exit router bombs or one of the virtual machines that run the VLR/HLR crash and you are stuck holding your diddlesticks.

 

[Boatanchor]

I've been saying that for many years. Of course the haters refuse to believe that is possible. But, it's what they do.

Since we are well and truly OT now, my 50c worth..

IMHO there is (and always has been) something a little screwed up in the Uniden IMBE/AMBE decoder implementation.

For example, ambient vehicle sirens and Motorola dispatch console alert tones do not reproduce well on a Uniden scanner, whereas they are reproduced reasonably accurately on 'real' P25 radios and even on the GRE type scanners. In addition, the audio bandwidth of the decoded P25 audio is significantly narrower (less high frequency audio response) than the GRE/RS/Whistler and 'real' P25 radios.

These two issues, I believe, lead a lot of people to complain about the somewhat 'muddy' sounding Uniden audio and some to even switch to the other brand/s.

The audio issues are something I have grown to live with and it is a price I feel I must pay for having, IMHO, superior RF performance.

As the saying goes though, YMMV.

 

[SOFA_KING]

Oh really? please explain to me where in Astro 25 CPS one goes to "adjust the squelch" on an Astro 25 subscriber radio to "get extended range" on a TRUNKED personality for a trunking system.



No argument there, but any agency with competent people on their radio team will vet the templates BEFORE finalizing them and catch any errors or issues.



Not true, there are many settings that should be left alone unless the programmer is experienced with aligning a radio and has the correct test gear to do so, you know, like an Aeroflex 3920B handy and have discussed with the system engineers the changes to certain fields in subscriber setup that should be left to factory defaults. If one is just adding talkgroups or changing user ergonomics, they should not dicker with performance related settings like ISP sequence length, maximum slot size, forced unmute timing, etc. unless the system engineers recommend changes.

AGC settings on transmit audio profiles only affect outgoing TX audio and don't impact RX performance at all.

All of this was covered in manufacturer based subscriber training, and I'm sure you took that in your career development.



And most modern digital radio systems are nothing but IP based communication systems that happen to use LMR RF as a "last mile", so the typical "IT guy" probably could do a better job managing such a network than some old school radio tech with his diddlesticks and sig gens.

Bottom line is it takes BOTH. A good radio team will have a good mix of both people who work together to make a network shine.

Don't knock the IT guys, they will be the ones you call when an exit router bombs or one of the virtual machines that run the VLR/HLR crash and you are stuck holding your diddlesticks.

Good God, do we have to argue every stinking point in this place? This "alpha male" crap gets old. I'm not going to get into all that nonsense you called me out on, as that is a waste of time and no one really wants to read it. You made assumptions (some bout my background and experience, as well) that are wrong. You couldn't possibly know some of that unless you knew me personally (and I assume you don't).

HOWEVER, you do make many valid points. Bottom line is you need networking experience along with RF experience and comprehensive electronic theory. I have all that under my belt, and have worked jobs requiring both, which often required me to troubleshoot these issues quickly (mission critical) and learn without formal training. And you need to know test equipment and how to properly use it (and not be fooled by overload or bad parameter settings). That should be a prerequisite for the job. Although I left (professionally) two-way some years ago, /\/\ Tune software used to allow many adjustments for optimizing a radio. Those options do vary depending on what is offered for a model, option, mode, etc. But if a knowledgeable person knows what they are doing, they can make significant improvements (within the parameters that are available). All I was saying is that many times this is not done and factory defaults are NOT always the best. True, some should be left alone (especially if you don't know what they actually do), but others can drastically improve performance. I used to "play" with settings quite a bit to see what worked best (even on signaling and scan parameters). And I was quite astonished to see how much better a radio could perform over factory defaults. I wondered why /\/\ didn't tweak those better coming out of the factory. ???

As for system maintainers, I see a lot of variance around here. Some (like Palm Beach County) know how to make it sound and play its best, then other systems are quite the opposite and suffer from "factory defaults". Night and day difference! And the change in the industry (IMO) to IT techs without true in-depth radio experience is the cause of much of this lack of performance (as I see it from talking to people in the field). It's not rocket science, but it is a science to be sure. No one cares anymore. It's just a job for many, and not a passion. Back in the day it was more of a "love of the art" for those in the business. Sad to see it decline. That was my point.

Peace!

 

[MTS2000des]

Good God, do we have to argue every stinking point in this place? This "alpha male" crap gets old. I'm not going to get into all that nonsense you called me out on, as that is a waste of time and no one really wants to read it.

No, just pointing out you made some highly erroneous statements. Part of a discussion forums is discussion. It is also completely OPTIONAL to respond. Obviously you felt the need to do so. Sounds totally "alpha" to me. Pot, meet kettle.

You made assumptions (some bout my background and experience, as well) that are wrong. You couldn't possibly know some of that unless you knew me personally (and I assume you don't).

I made no references to your background. I could care less. I merely commented on your erroneous statements about "adjusting the squelch" on trunking subscriber radios. So put it back in your pants. As you just said, no one really cares.

HOWEVER, you do make many valid points. Bottom line is you need networking experience along with RF experience and comprehensive electronic theory.

Thanks for affirming what I said prior. I knew I was right.

I have all that under my belt, and have worked jobs requiring both, which often required me to troubleshoot these issues quickly (mission critical) and learn without formal training.

I do this for a living CURRENTLY. I am well aware of what it takes as is anyone who does it today. Things have changed though, modern digital radio systems are not drastically different from any other VoIP system. If one doesn't have that foundation, they are pissing in the wind when it comes to troubleshooting performance issues, problems or anything else.

And you need to know test equipment and how to properly use it (and not be fooled by overload or bad parameter settings). That should be a prerequisite for the job.

Yup. I'll concur. Buying any equipment and not getting the instructor led training is wasting money. Any shop that would hire someone and not either have them trained on the gear or make the prior training/experience with it is not being prudent.

Although I left (professionally) two-way some years ago, /\/\ Tune software used to allow many adjustments for optimizing a radio.

Must have been quite some time ago. Current and recently cancelled Motorola digital radio products do not allow the programmer to "tune" anything, in fact, current CPS has a standalone separate TUNER application. Instructor led training for CPS programming instructs programmers that TUNER should not be used UNLESS one is adept at the tuning of subscriber radios and has the necessary training and test equipment to do so. There are, however, some performance parameters that I mentioned that really should be left alone unless specifically instructed by the system engineers or technical team to make changes. Usually this is done by those working on the system before final acceptance.

But if a knowledgeable person knows what they are doing, t

That's the part that is so open to variables. I can't tell you how many "plumber tuned" radios that have come across my bench (mostly used radios off eBay) where someone thought they knew what they were doing and did things like slamming codeplugs with lab/depot and overwrote softpots (Astro Saber/XTS3000/Spectras) that were so off it wasn't even funny.

I say if someone hasn't been to instructor led classes for the current products they are supposed to support and/or has years of experience actually WORKING in land mobile radio, they should keep their nose out of touching radios used by people who's lives depend on them. It's as simple as that.

I shudder when I see thread after thread on this very forum of untrained, clueless people wanting to jump right in and program sophisticated subscriber radios used in mission critical situations. They are an expert because they read some Wiki and are armed with their $15 Ebay cable and bootleg copy of whatever radio programming software.

As for system maintainers, I see a lot of variance around here.

Just curious, what are you using as your baseline for system performance? A scanner? Please tell me you are not serious. The current crop of consumer scanners are GARBAGE and are nothing more than consumer toys.

Now if you're using properly vetted, configured and tuned subscriber radios that is a different story.

This is something that many who are scanner hobbyists don't understand about the system(s) they are listening to on a scanner. Basing how well (or poorly) a land mobile radio system sounds on some consumer scanner is like basing an automobile performance on how it looks sitting in your driveway.

The worlds are that far apart.

Having been in the business, I am sure you will agree.

 

[VE3RADIO]

The WS1080 and WS1095 are not the same class scanner as the BCD436HP or the BCD536HP.
1. Where is the remote control of the WS1080 or WS1095. NONE
2. Are they type 2 scanners? Yes to all 4 most users think 1 is better than the other.
3. Where is the site analyzer on the WS1080 and WS1095 without extra software? Does not exist.
4. WS1095 removeable head. Yes it has that the BCD536HP does not.
To compare the x36's to the WS1080 and WS1095 is like comparing the WS1080 to the PRO106 they both scan but have different features they are not just the same class of scanners neither is a PINTO and a MUSTANG the same class car.

The GRE are the Mustang and the Uniden are the Pinto right?

 

[SOFA_KING]

No, just pointing out you made some highly erroneous statements. Part of a discussion forums is discussion. It is also completely OPTIONAL to respond. Obviously you felt the need to do so. Sounds totally "alpha" to me. Pot, meet kettle.



I made no references to your background. I could care less. I merely commented on your erroneous statements about "adjusting the squelch" on trunking subscriber radios. So put it back in your pants. As you just said, no one really cares.



Thanks for affirming what I said prior. I knew I was right.



I do this for a living CURRENTLY. I am well aware of what it takes as is anyone who does it today. Things have changed though, modern digital radio systems are not drastically different from any other VoIP system. If one doesn't have that foundation, they are pissing in the wind when it comes to troubleshooting performance issues, problems or anything else.



Yup. I'll concur. Buying any equipment and not getting the instructor led training is wasting money. Any shop that would hire someone and not either have them trained on the gear or make the prior training/experience with it is not being prudent.



Must have been quite some time ago. Current and recently cancelled Motorola digital radio products do not allow the programmer to "tune" anything, in fact, current CPS has a standalone separate TUNER application. Instructor led training for CPS programming instructs programmers that TUNER should not be used UNLESS one is adept at the tuning of subscriber radios and has the necessary training and test equipment to do so. There are, however, some performance parameters that I mentioned that really should be left alone unless specifically instructed by the system engineers or technical team to make changes. Usually this is done by those working on the system before final acceptance.



That's the part that is so open to variables. I can't tell you how many "plumber tuned" radios that have come across my bench (mostly used radios off eBay) where someone thought they knew what they were doing and did things like slamming codeplugs with lab/depot and overwrote softpots (Astro Saber/XTS3000/Spectras) that were so off it wasn't even funny.

I say if someone hasn't been to instructor led classes for the current products they are supposed to support and/or has years of experience actually WORKING in land mobile radio, they should keep their nose out of touching radios used by people who's lives depend on them. It's as simple as that.

I shudder when I see thread after thread on this very forum of untrained, clueless people wanting to jump right in and program sophisticated subscriber radios used in mission critical situations. They are an expert because they read some Wiki and are armed with their $15 Ebay cable and bootleg copy of whatever radio programming software.



Just curious, what are you using as your baseline for system performance? A scanner? Please tell me you are not serious. The current crop of consumer scanners are GARBAGE and are nothing more than consumer toys.

Now if you're using properly vetted, configured and tuned subscriber radios that is a different story.

This is something that many who are scanner hobbyists don't understand about the system(s) they are listening to on a scanner. Basing how well (or poorly) a land mobile radio system sounds on some consumer scanner is like basing an automobile performance on how it looks sitting in your driveway.

The worlds are that far apart.

Having been in the business, I am sure you will agree.

I may not be in THAT specific business anymore (some time ago), but I am in a business that is both radio and networking (life and death...and no, no longer in cellular anymore either). I never said anything about squelch settings in "trunked systems". It was a general comment about communication systems (obviously conventional) and default settings.

Look, I agree on many points. I did'n make my comments to target anyone or start a pissing match. No need to "go after me and my credentials. I have been to instructor led classes, and I have seen many sleep their way through them. I, on the other hand, look to "ace" the exam at the end. Different strokes, you know? And yes...when I worked in the depot, I had to correct much of the garbage the (as I called them) "hacknicians" did to these poor radios.

I can't afford all the latest and greatest two-way toys, but I do use some good surplus /\/\ gear, and listen on both commercial gear and scanners. No doubt, scanners are not in the same league, but they still can reveal shortcomings in audio settings.

Anyway...I have work to do. Gotta run.

 

[buddrousa]

The GRE are the Mustang and the Uniden are the Pinto right?

You have your opinion I have mine. My Unidens out performs my GRE, RADIOSHACK. WHISTLER built scanners for remote connections and tracking our local TACN system. My PRO197 and PRO106 are used with pro96com for tracking system TG's and UID's. My GRE410's are used to track my local Fire Dept's on one and local Police on the other. My PRO18 is a backup or used to track KSP and MOWIN systems. My PRO668 is as a spare, comparison or if traffic gets busy and I need to track multiple groups.
You can not make the Pinto outrun the Mustang and you can not make the Mustang get the gas mileage of the Pinto. Like I listed in another post I am looking into the adding of another 536 or a 996P2 to my stack.
I have also stated that I ask questions and look at all the scanners before I buy most of them I was not a fan of the 785D as it was not simple to operate turning on and turning off banks had to be timed or you could turn off talkgroup banks that got me to buy the 1st RS and 96 then the 2096 which were upgraded to 197 and 106 which was upgraded to the 18 (and was waiting on the RS ver of the 900 that never made its debut) then the 668 that was having battery troubles and was replaced by a 436 which I liked so much I added a 536 then got the update that fixed the 668 battery issue. So I use multiple scanners to do different jobs that each does better at for me but you have to work with what is best for you.