OnQue - NEXEDGE System

[Forts]

With the release of the latest DSD+ which is capable of decoding various NEXEDGE trunked system parameters, I've setup a new system in the database for everyone to contribute to. I've added in a few sites that I've been able to log so far.

OnQue Trunking System, , Ontario - Scanner Frequencies

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

The system is already in the database from information I submitted in early September for the Montreal area,
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8041

The system uses the Regional system id category, so it likely has between 31 and 254 sites.
I can believe it looking at the coverage map with future expansion.
http://www.cplus.org/images/RevisedCoverageMap.jpg

73 Eric

 

[Forts]

Hmm... it looks like we have site numbers that overlap between Ontario and Quebec. I'm not sure the best way to handle that.. Actually... I guess the systems will have to stay as separate entities in the database?

 

[mciupa]

Awesome, another sandbox to play in!

 

[exkalibur]

It's probably best to keep the Ontario part of the system separate from the Quebec portion of the system, to avoid confusion. If there are talkgroups that we have confirmed are active in both Quebec AND Ontario, they could be listed on both systems - but I imagine there won't be too many of those. Of course, having the two systems cross-linked would be a good idea.

 

[mciupa]

It's probably best to keep the Ontario part of the system separate from the Quebec portion of the system, to avoid confusion. Of course, having the two systems cross-linked would be a good idea.

I was hoping on keeping them together until I saw two Site 14's in both Ont and Que. So, I have put a coverage map and a TRS DB link for the twin in the Description field.

 

[Forts]

I can only presume the Quebec side of the system must be running a different system ID?

 

[DaveH]

Interesting. I believe the Ottawa/Gatineau part is a bunch of Glentel channels in
the 451-455 and 460-464+ range, but no solid info on that yet. Guess I need to get
DSD+ up and working (thanks Eric). BTW I think there's a site near Cornwall with
CC on 451.725, normally don't hear it from here except with enhanced prop., and
rarely venture down that way these days. Maybe someone could check that out.

Ont/Que overlap will be signifigant in Ottawa/Gatineau.

Besides NXDN48 I heard some NXDN96 CC/VCs in Quebec in the 422-425 range,
not sure at this point if it's part of any network.

Lastly, interesting to note the Nexedge Sys ID is 202, which just happens to be
the same as the GOTRBO network; coincidence?

Dave

 

[mmisk]

Here is what I have found so far from east of Ottawa:

Dave,

Here is what I have found so far from east of Ottawa:
Sorry about the formatting.
DMR Pulse 143.9125
? 150.140
CC 7 ? 151.205 MHz
201 Site 12 151.205 MHz
? 151.2065 MHz
FED ENC 421.9375 MHz
201 Site 12 422.5625 MHz
201 Site 2 422.8875 MHz
201 Site 12 423.1125 MHz
201 Site 16 423.5375 MHz
201 Site 16 423.600 MHz
? 444.475 MHz
202 Site 1 451.075 MHz
201 Site 7 451.215 MHz
201 Site 6 451.3125 MHz
202 Site 1 451.450 MHz
202 Site 5 451.475 MHz
201 Site 4 451.525 MHz
201 Site 11 451.5625 MHz
201 Site 6 451.5875 MHz
201 Site 3 451.6875 MHz
167 Site 9 451.8125 MHz
UofO ENC 452.025 MHz
? 452.100
201 Site 9 452.2625 MHz
202 Site 2 452.3125 MHz
167 Site 9 452.5625 MHz
202 Site 1 456.0875 MHz
201 Site 1 460.1875 MHz
DCC 12 ? 460.3625 MHz
? 461.2875 MHz
201 Site 6 461.3375 MHz
201 Site 11 461.4375 MHz
201 Site 4 461.4625 MHz
201 Site 3 461.5875 MHz
201 Site 7 462.4125 MHz
201 Site 11 462.8375 MHz
201 Site 4 463.2375 MHz
201 Site 1 463.2875 MHz
202 Site 5 463.375 MHz
201 Site 1 463.6875 MHz
202 Site 3 463.9625 MHz

 

[mciupa]

... interesting to note the Nexedge Sys ID is 202, which just happens to be the same as the GOTRBO network; coincidence?

Dave

I have noticed this as well. I monitor Site 7 from the CN Tower on GOTRBO. SysID 202
I'm hoping to locate some OnQue data while I'm searching.

I have been using Eric Cottrell's WinDSD with a tapped scanner for NXDN and it spits out a wealth of info.

I hope you can help us out that way Dave.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

I looked over my code and logs from my Montreal trip in late August. I did receive site 14 for Regional 202 on multiple frequencies with a RAN of 14. There is also a Site 11 somewhere in Southern Quebec as well.

One possibility is the Southern Ontario part of the system is using a different category, like Local, with the same system code. The Local category allows up to 30 sites. The radio would see Local 202 as a different system from Regional 202. The dsdplus program does not display the category. My test windows version does display the category. Can someone please try my program on the Chatham site to see what it outputs for the system id and site number.
http://www.radiophile.info/WinDSD/WinDSDv2.zip

73 Eric

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

The other "fun" aspect of this system is figuring out the Channel to Frequency mapping. For the Quebec part of the system the mapping has several hundred channels in no apparent logical order. Here is what I figured out on the Montreal area sites.

Ch Frequency
34
135 422.8125 Site 25 Ctl
138 423.4000 Site 5 Ctl
141
148 420.5250 Site 24
157 423.2000 Site 25
158 423.2375 Site 5 Ctl
160
170
186 420.0750 Site 14 Ctl
190 422.4625 Site 5
194
199
209 422.2625 Site 25
229
232 423.2625 Site 27 Ctl
246
247 420.8875 Site 14 Ctl
274
280
299

73 Eric

 

[mciupa]

Dave / Eric, If you look at post #9 in this thread, you will note the sysID of 201 which is the PushPlus Network that covers Eastern Ontario and Montreal Area that Eric discovered this summer.

PushPlus Digital Network

I am populating the database with the sites listed

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8045

The 167 sysID would be the Ottawa branch of the Acces Comm network.

I will look through the CC's in post #12 in a while.

 

[exkalibur]

Hello,

The other "fun" aspect of this system is figuring out the Channel to Frequency mapping. For the Quebec part of the system the mapping has several hundred channels in no apparent logical order. Here is what I figured out on the Montreal area sites.

73 Eric

Thankfully this system's frequencies are all listed on TAFL, so it's easy to figure out what frequencies belong to what site.

However like you say, finding channel numbers is the PITA. There's really no rhyme or reason to it.

I have to wonder if they didn't channelize the entire band ahead of time. Seems that if they didn't, they'd be running into the same issues as EDACS systems.

 

[Muxlow]

Checking Site 11 Sarnia, The channel mapping there is a little wacked

88 410.2875
94 412.0125
117 412.285

 

[mmisk]

NXDN

Here is my list of NXDN signals received from east of Ottawa.
In my previous post #9, I had U of O listed with DMR frequencys but it is NXDN encrypted.
DSD did not show any site info on some of them.
I am using a 2 metre antenna at about 70 feet but hope to replace it with a dual band some day soon

2008 Site 29 143.280 MHz
2038 Site 1 152.105 MHz
2004 Site 11 152.300 MHz
2004 Site 8 152.435 MHz
2004 Site 10 152.555 MHz
2004 Site 12 152.998 MHz
2004 Site 6 153.005 MHz
2004 Site 5 153.035 MHz
2004 Site 7 153.043 MHz
U of O 452.025 MHz ENC
? 452.1625 MHz
202 Site 22 452.7375 MHz
? 458.125 MHz
? 460.0625 MHz
202 Site 21 460.2875 MHz
? 461.8875 MHz
? 462.2125 MHz
? 462.3375 MHz

 

[slicerwizard]

From what I've seen, multi-channel NEXEDGE trunking sites use multiple control channels (similar to Motorola 3600, P25, etc.); rotation should be once per day, at a time set by the system manager. Each site can rotate its CC at a different manager-set time of day (during normal business hours would be a wise choice). Every multi-channel site in the database should (eventually) have multiple CCs marked.

Obviously, single channel sites do not rotate CCs, but the CCs do "go away" during voice or data calls.

IMO, database entries should include the OTA channel number; this would let users populate their DSDPlus.frequencies files. Perhaps the existing LCN field can pressed into service.


Here's some additional system data from my DSDPlus.frequencies file:

; OnQue Site 1, Toronto (CN Tower)
;
; Neighbours: 2 3 4 6 7 8 16 29

NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 34, 422.20000, 0.0, 1   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 35, 422.20625, 0.0, 2
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 46, 422.30625, 0.0, 3
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 56, 422.40625, 0.0, 4
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 67, 422.50625, 0.0, 5
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 77, 422.60625, 0.0, 6
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 45, 422.30000, 0.0, 7   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 55, 422.40000, 0.0, 8
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 66, 422.50000, 0.0, 9
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 76, 422.60000, 0.0, 10
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 40, 422.23750, 0.0, 11
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 50, 422.33750, 0.0, 12
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 61, 422.43750, 0.0, 13
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 71, 422.53750, 0.0, 14
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 82, 422.63750, 0.0, 15
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 36, 422.21250, 0.0, 16
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 47, 422.31250, 0.0, 17
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 57, 422.41250, 0.0, 18
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 68, 422.51250, 0.0, 19
NEXEDGE48, 202, 1, 78, 422.61250, 0.0, 20


; OnQue Site 3, Hamilton (174 Mountain Park)

NEXEDGE48, 202, 3, 23, 420.73750, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 4, Oshawa (Mitchell's Corners)
;
; Neighbours: 1 7 8

NEXEDGE48, 202, 4, 37, 422.21875, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 4, 58, 422.41875, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 4, 86, 422.96875, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 5, Fonthill
;
; Neighbours: 3 25 27

NEXEDGE48, 202, 5, 21, 420.64375, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 5, 27, 420.84375, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 5, 30, 420.94375, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 6, Milton (Rattlesnake Point)
;
; Neighbours: 1 2 3 8 16 26 29 31

NEXEDGE48, 202, 6, 60, 422.43125, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 6, 81, 422.63125, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 6, 185, 422.93750, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 7, Scarborough (31 Gilder Drive)
;
; Neighbours: 1 4

NEXEDGE48, 202, 7, 39, 422.23125, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 7, 70, 422.53125, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 8, Aurora (1613 Dufferin Street, Snowball)
;
; Neighbours: 1 2 4 6

NEXEDGE48, 202, 8, 48, 422.31875, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 8, 69, 422.51875, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 8, 79, 422.61875, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 9, London (One London Place)
;
; Neighbours: 14 15 17 25 26

NEXEDGE48, 202, 9, 91, 411.23750, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 9, 92, 411.38750, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 9, 93, 411.91250, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 9, 95, 412.36250, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 9, 96, 412.43750, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 10, Woodstock (Line 1 / Conc 1, SW Oxford)
;
; Neighbours: 9 13 15 16 25 26 27 29

NEXEDGE48, 202, 10, 87, 410.08750, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 10, 90, 411.06250, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 10, 97, 412.66250, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 10, 224, 412.21250, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 13, St. Thomas (245 Edward Street)

NEXEDGE48, 202, 13, 106, 413.91250, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 14, Chatham (Fairview Line)

NEXEDGE48, 202, 14, 2, 420.03750, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 15, St. Mary's (Maple Leaf Foods water tower)
;
; single channel site with composite control channel (CC/voice/data)
;
; Neighbours: 9 10 16 17 26

NEXEDGE48, 202, 15, 208, 420.10000, 0.0, 0   ; CCC


; OnQue Site 16, Kitchener (315 Margaret Avenue)
;
; Neighbours: 3 6 9 10 15 26 27 29

NEXEDGE48, 202, 16, 25, 420.83125, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 16, 28, 420.93125, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 16, 101, 420.05625, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 16, 105, 420.45625, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 16, 131, 420.25000, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 17, Strathroy

NEXEDGE48, 202, 17, 114, 412.06250, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 25, Walsh (Line 13 / Conc 6, Norfolk)
;

NEXEDGE48, 202, 25, 213, 410.36250, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 26, Moorefield (6852 Wellington Road)
;
; Neighbours: 6 9 10 15 16 28 31

NEXEDGE48, 202, 26, 110, 410.03750, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 27, Brantford (Paris Road)

NEXEDGE48, 202, 27, 148, 420.52500, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 27, 225, 420.18750, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 27, 226, 420.72500, 0.0, 0


; OnQue Site 29, Cambridge (700 Coronation Boulevard)
;
; Neighbours: 1 3 6 10 16 27

NEXEDGE48, 202, 29, 134, 422.67500, 0.0, 0   ; CC


; OnQue Site 31, Owen Sound

NEXEDGE48, 202, 31, 95, 412.36250, 0.0, 0   ; CC

 

[mciupa]

From what I've seen, multi-channel NEXEDGE trunking sites use multiple control channels (similar to Motorola 3600, P25, etc.); rotation should be once per day, at a time set by the system manager. Each site can rotate its CC at a different manager-set time of day (during normal business hours would be a wise choice). Every multi-channel site in the database should (eventually) have multiple CCs marked.

Obviously, single channel sites do not rotate CCs, but the CCs do "go away" during voice or data calls.

IMO, database entries should include the OTA channel number; this would let users populate their DSDPlus.frequencies files. Perhaps the existing LCN field can pressed into service.

Firstly, thanks for sharing your extensive file with us.

Secondly, I'd like to oblige you with the LCN's but for now, the table isn't set up that way. If I try and follow your listings, it will auto sort into ascending freq. order. We could submit a ticket to get the Database Manager or Lindsay to update that feature.

I have submitted this request for the OTA channels to be used in the LCN's to our bug reporting area.

 

[slicerwizard]

Update:

; OnQue Site 3, Hamilton (174 Mountain Park)
;
; Neighbours: 6 16 25 27 29

NEXEDGE48, 202, 3, 20, 420.63750, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 3, 23, 420.73750, 0.0, 0   ; CC
NEXEDGE48, 202, 3, 26, 420.83750, 0.0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 202, 3, 29, 420.93750, 0.0, 0

 

[DaveH]

From what I've seen, multi-channel NEXEDGE trunking sites use multiple control channels (similar to Motorola 3600, P25, etc.); rotation should be once per day, at a time set by the system manager. Each site can rotate its CC at a different manager-set time of day (during normal business hours would be a wise choice). Every multi-channel site in the database should (eventually) have multiple CCs marked.

Obviously, single channel sites do not rotate CCs, but the CCs do "go away" during voice or data calls.

May be true generally, but I've seen a couple of systems, one 4.8k and one 9.6k, where
the CC's have never rotated.

Dave