Orange County CCCS P25 Update

[gregfromtheoc]

Did everyone see this August 4 tweet from OCFA Chief Fennessy?



Chief Brian Fennessy
@OCFAChief
Questions remain re OCFA encrypted radios. The OC Fire Chiefs Assoc. is working with the Sheriff’s Dept to assess the feasibility to remove encryption from fire service radios without an unnecessary financial burden on agencies. If feasible, this would be a multi-year effort.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290726364690223108

 

[Scrapmatt17]

Did everyone see this August 4 tweet from OCFA Chief Fennessy?

Chief Brian Fennessy
@OCFAChief
Questions remain re OCFA encrypted radios. The OC Fire Chiefs Assoc. is working with the Sheriff’s Dept to assess the feasibility to remove encryption from fire service radios without an unnecessary financial burden on agencies. If feasible, this would be a multi-year effort.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290726364690223108

Yea I definitely saw this. Doesnt look very promising but im happy the department actually publicaly stated that they acknowledge they didnt make the deadline of "Unencryption." Doesnt seem very promising but we will see if anything changes soon.

 

[Anderegg]

The way that Motorola radios work, if you DISABLE the TX encryption, they will still DECODE any encrypted traffic that they arer still keyloaded with. Similarly, they can more easily TX clear on at least the dispatch consoles until they start clear comm'ing the individual radios. Any radio that would be set to TX clear would still receive encrypted traffic ffom other radios...to the radio user, there would be no real indication of wether the comm was clear or encrypted unless they have TX clear beep enabled.

Paul

 

[russbrill]

The way that Motorola radios work, if you DISABLE the TX encryption, they will still DECODE any encrypted traffic that they arer still keyloaded with. Similarly, they can more easily TX clear on at least the dispatch consoles until they start clear comm'ing the individual radios. Any radio that would be set to TX clear would still receive encrypted traffic ffom other radios...to the radio user, there would be no real indication of wether the comm was clear or encrypted unless they have TX clear beep enabled.

Paul

So, in other words the Chief doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's giving everyone the Billy Squire "Stroke" ...

 

[Mikek]

So, in other words the Chief doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's giving everyone the Billy Squire "Stroke" ...

There are several ways to configure encryption on the APX series radios. The most secure, and considered the de-facto configuration for public safety encryption, is to IGNORE any clear voice, or voice with non-matching keys. I assume that OCSD has their ducks in a row, and all radios in the fleet are configured this way. It's not as simple as turning off encryption one radio at a time until you get them all.

That said - it is hard to believe it requires a "multi-year effort"...

 

[techman210]

What some people don’t understand, is within any governmental agency, while the money comes from one “spigot”, every agency has a budget and their priorities.

The fire department can’t ask the Sheriff who owns and manages the radio system to make changes without the transfer of funds between the two.

And the Sheriff has to work this in with their own existing priorities and scheduled tasks.

As myself and others have covered in previous posts, this includes making the initial changes, and then visiting the radios again and removing the old zones.

In a large radio system it’s not easy and sometimes not even practical to push out updates on a 9600 baud OTAP for those that think this was the answer.

 

[Randyk4661]

If I remember when they started this, they programed all the radios with encryption and left the the old system in the radios. Once all the radios had the new system they switched over and deleted the old system out of the radios. They had to touch every radio twice(?). When they made a decision to un-encrypt, that threw everyone in a tailspin. Budgets need to be made. Covid19 hasn't helped. De funding police is making it harder on the sheriff I would guess.
I don't expect any work will begin before 2022 honestly ( I hope I am wrong on this).

Randy

 

[russbrill]

If I remember when they started this, they programed all the radios with encryption and left the the old system in the radios. Once all the radios had the new system they switched over and deleted the old system out of the radios. They had to touch every radio twice(?). When they made a decision to un-encrypt, that threw everyone in a tailspin. Budgets need to be made. Covid19 hasn't helped. De funding police is making it harder on the sheriff I would guess.
I don't expect any work will begin before 2022 honestly ( I hope I am wrong on this).

Randy

IMHO: It sounds like lip service to me, if management wanted it, it would get done.. They (Gov.) are having both ways, they're saying they are for transparency without actually being transparent...

 

[mitbr]

I thought on these modern systems that encryption did not cost anything.

 

[monitor142]

It's typical that Motorola will include software level ADP encryption for all P25 subscribers. I believe that at one time it was proprietary but if I'm not mistaken, other manufacturers offer ARC4 type encryption which may be compatible. It's not uber secure rather a nice way of blocking scannists out for a cheap price.

Most systems stick with AES-256 such as the Orange County Next Gen P25 system. It's deemed the standard encryption by the TIA and P25 certifying labs. Just to note, Motorola isn't the only subscribers on their system. On my system, I use a Kenwood 5000 series portable with AES-256 encryption and and it's a rock solid radio. I also have one of their mobiles as a base station and it's just as good.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

IMHO: It sounds like lip service to me, if management wanted it, it would get done.. They (Gov.) are having both ways, they're saying they are for transparency without actually being transparent...

Please stay out with your lip service if you have nothing positive to say. Most of their fire communication is being streamed right now on Broadcastify for the time being. Some decisions that were made a few years ago were not for the greater good. Lets give it some time for The County to do the right thing. Hand touching thousands and thousands of radios is going to take time and labor and some serious costs.

Most likely they are looking at all options and cost effective ways to "not" have to hand touch each radio if possible.

 

[WX4JCW]

Please stay out with your lip service if you have nothing positive to say. Most of their fire communication is being streamed right now on Broadcastify for the time being. Some decisions that were made a few years ago were not for the greater good. Let's give it some time for The County to do the right thing. Hand touching thousands and thousands of radios is going to take time and labor and some serious costs.

Most likely they are looking at all options and cost effective ways to "not" have to hand touch each radio if possible.

it very much sounds like lip service, most likely given the history of the Sheriff's office it's quite possible they have received resistance from the SO, that being said they could have said no from the get go, but they did not. one good thing coming out of all this crap going on these days, its the perfect time to take advantage of the situation and apply pressure.

 

[657fe2]

At this point I would settle for OCFA radio traffic from Broadcastify., and it would be a huge win to require California 830.1 - 830.33 agencies to offer a delayed transmission like OCFA. OCSD will hate it, but we are in charge not them. For now at least we have fire in California available except CMFD, LBFD and Placencia, if you want to hate on fire, aim it at the management not firefighters of those agencies. A Fire Chief that hides is deficient in some way. Lets help line firefighters get rid of these dinosaurs. Thank You.

 

[ScanFanEd]

With all LE and Fire being encrypted on the CCCS, just wondering if anyone is aware of anything decent on the system that is still in the clear. If accurate, the RRDB shows that the PINK talkgroups and some TAN talkgroups are not encrypted, as well as some county services. Do you find that they or another others are worth monitoring?

 

[Randyk4661]

I listen to lifeguards, county parks on what might be busy days. I also listen to the conventional channels, OC access channels, Cal law channels, ect. Any of the interop frequencies I can get.
Other than that not much to listen to.

Sometimes I will do an ID search for a few hours to see if I pick up anything new.
Someday fire will unencrypt.

 

[ScanFanEd]

Thanks, Randy.

In regard to "Someday fire will unencrypt", I sure hope so! I was hoping that it would have happened by now. Hopefully in the coming months?

 

[kearthfan101]

Thanks, Randy.

In regard to "Someday fire will unencrypt", I sure hope so! I was hoping that it would have happened by now. Hopefully in the coming months?

Database was just updated recently. Adding on to what Randy mentioned:

Countywide broadcasts on the DSP-DSP talkgroup, which is the interop for each dispatch center.
Helicopter hailing on Aircall - you can at least hear the type of call and location.
Lifeguards on Aqua
Pink channels but I personally haven't heard anything on them.
Silver channels are all clear except for one or 2... OCTA supervisors, Animal Control, Parks, John Wayne Airport.
Tan for interop, any unit can call Control One, the main coordination center, for assistance.

Fire being gone is a bummer but the other things are still worth your while.

 

[kearthfan101]

Someone submitted information and had the database updated to show the Red channel being in the clear. I checked a few times over the last couple days and confirmed the channel is still encrypted. Does anyone have recent information that shows otherwise? If not then I’m not sure why that information was given.

 

[Randyk4661]

I would think it was a mistake somewhere in the process. everything is suppose to be verified by an admin.
Maybe gone partly encrypted if anything. We can dream can't we?

 

[LAflyer]

Yes we received a submission from a member that TG 3170 was not encrypted and should be shown as D, not DE.

We've since received another submission that its indeed DE, and the Db has been updated again.

We work submissions as received, and in many cases do not have the capability to personally verify. We are largely at the mercy to the accuracy in what members submit.

Thanks for the support.