P25 Phase 2 Best Radio for Unaffiliated

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magiclightman

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As said above, looking for what would be the best for p25 unaffiliated. I have a unication g5 now, but I want something thats the size of a normal radio. I've seen that APX is possible but not worth the possibility of bricking it. Harris XG-100p is there, but that would require sending off to someone to program. I think I saw somewhere that the THALES PRC-7332 is good because it has an option for easy programing of an unaffiliated system? Is this true? Any other suggestions?
 

druhe

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As said above, looking for what would be the best for p25 unaffiliated. I have a unication g5 now, but I want something thats the size of a normal radio. I've seen that APX is possible but not worth the possibility of bricking it. Harris XG-100p is there, but that would require sending off to someone to program. I think I saw somewhere that the THALES PRC-7332 is good because it has an option for easy programing of an unaffiliated system? Is this true? Any other suggestions?

It's my understanding that the RELM / BK radios will do what you are looking to do. It's nothing more than a check mark within the programming software, so I have read. I have no first hand experience with this.

If I may ask, with the cost and aggravation factors involved, why not use a scanner such as a Uniden SDS100 ?
 

Twister_2

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Apx 6000 or 8000 if you're going to monitor other bands / ham radio. Works flawlessly because that's what the systems are built for.What system are you going to use it on?
 

magiclightman

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Apx 6000 or 8000 if you're going to monitor other bands / ham radio. Works flawlessly because that's what the systems are built for.What system are you going to use it on?

Chester county P25 Phase 2. It’s a harris one not moto which is why I was weary of an APX. I bought two Harris XG-15ps a few days ago but the dude who said he could program them turned out to be just a scam. Unless I can get these two XG15s programed unaffiliated I’ll need to sell them and get something else.
 

magiclightman

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It's my understanding that the RELM / BK radios will do what you are looking to do. It's nothing more than a check mark within the programming software, so I have read. I have no first hand experience with this.

If I may ask, with the cost and aggravation factors involved, why not use a scanner such as a Uniden SDS100 ?

Scanners reportedly don’t work well at all with our Simu system, plus i’ll be using it to monitor the fire tg at our firehouse while our main units charge for fire calls.


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Twister_2

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I have an apx working flawlessly on York's Harris Phase 2. The only difference in programming is select inter-wacn roaming and add the NAC to each talkgroup. Other than that the programming is all the same.
 

osiris

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I'm hearing Chester Co fine on my SDS200. I'm a little far away to get them all the time, but when I do they come in great.
Bob
 

Twister_2

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I'm hearing Chester Co fine on my SDS200. I'm a little far away to get them all the time, but when I do they come in great.
Bob
If you are far enough away to not get it all the time, then simulcast distortion / multipath will not likely be an issue at your location for ANY receiver.
 

u2brent

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Have had No issues with simulcast on SDS100 on West Site. But then again the 436's do nearly as well.. It's while mobile that coms are missed the most on the x36's.. 2 cents..
 

IAmSixNine

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I have a Relm / BK Radio KNG2-P800 (700/800mhz) and its designed as druhe said to be non affiliate.
When programming there is an option in each system setting to check that enables RX only. I have had mine just over 2 years and really like it.
One of the key features is the ability to program priority scan. APX NAS does not allow priority since your not affiliated with the system.
Also with the APX NAS you can not park on a rarely used channel. What i mean by that is i have channels in my KNG that are not in scan list or rarely used. If i need to monitor one of them i can switch to that channel with out the radio affiliating.
The only way you can monitor a channel like that with an APX is to add that channel/ talk group to a scan list and scan for it.
While i do have an APX i find my self using it to scan main channels but when something interesting pops up I use my KNG to stay on that channel.
My Unication G4 units are for daily wear and recording.
 

policefreak

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What about a Unication G4 or G5? It's not a radio, it's a pager but will receive Chester County just as good. Heck, with mine I can clearly copy Chester County from 30 miles to the east in NJ. I have a Relm BK KNG P800 and it is a great receive only radio. But it is very expensive and does mostly what the Unication does.
 

IAmSixNine

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What about a Unication G4 or G5? It's not a radio, it's a pager but will receive Chester County just as good. Heck, with mine I can clearly copy Chester County from 30 miles to the east in NJ. I have a Relm BK KNG P800 and it is a great receive only radio. But it is very expensive and does mostly what the Unication does.
He states he has a Unicatoin G5 but wants something more radio like in size.
 

magiclightman

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I have a Relm / BK Radio KNG2-P800 (700/800mhz) and its designed as druhe said to be non affiliate.
When programming there is an option in each system setting to check that enables RX only. I have had mine just over 2 years and really like it.
One of the key features is the ability to program priority scan. APX NAS does not allow priority since your not affiliated with the system.
Also with the APX NAS you can not park on a rarely used channel. What i mean by that is i have channels in my KNG that are not in scan list or rarely used. If i need to monitor one of them i can switch to that channel with out the radio affiliating.
The only way you can monitor a channel like that with an APX is to add that channel/ talk group to a scan list and scan for it.
While i do have an APX i find my self using it to scan main channels but when something interesting pops up I use my KNG to stay on that channel.
My Unication G4 units are for daily wear and recording.

I’m leaning towards a p800, is the programming software easy to come by?
 

IAmSixNine

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I purchased my software from BK when i got my radio a few years ago. I think its only a few hundred bucks and that is for a 3 or so year subscription.
 

IAmSixNine

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I am not sure BK sells direct to consumers anymore.
I purchased mine a few years ago when they had a sale on the KNG2 units. I got mine for $500 off. Ordered the Phase 2 option, programming software, programming adapter, rapid charger, LiIOn battery, stubby antenna. Came about a month later. Been working great.
I did have an issue with it eating up my battery. Turns out there was an issue with it, sent it in and they repaired it and replaced the battery (the unit was nearing the end of its 2 year warranty). Since i use mine in RX only mode the issue took a while to present its self. Dont know exactly what it was but one day the battery decided not to show the level or give an indication of how much charge it had. It would also go dead within a few hours of use. Since we didnt know what the issue was they asked me to send in everything. Battery, radio and charger. They replaced a board in the radio and sent it back with a new battery. I was pleasantly surprised at how well i was treated by their customer support given i was an individual with just one radio and not a department with many.
The only down side to the KNG is it will NOT scan across systems. Each trunking scan list can only scan 16 TG. But i find thats been enough for my needs. Plus i can use priority TG which i can to do with an APX and NAS.
Its also got a great receiver in it. Comparable to the APX and G5 units.
 

DanRollman

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It's my understanding that the RELM / BK radios will do what you are looking to do. It's nothing more than a check mark within the programming software, so I have read. I have no first hand experience with this.

That is correct. A work-around is available to make an XTS (Phase I only obviously) or APX scan talkgroups without affiliating with the system if done correctly, and if you have access to the required system key. But there are downsides to this (including the inability to "sit" on a particular channel without programming it as a scan list by itself, a limited delay because you are scanning from a conventional channel, inability to have a priority scan list, and others). The BK Radios, on the other hand, were designed to permit true RX Only programming and monitoring without needing a system key and without loss of typical receive and scan features. Their software is also more freely purchased by anyone with a wallet, rather than having to jump through any additional hoops.

If I may ask, with the cost and aggravation factors involved, why not use a scanner such as a Uniden SDS100 ?

I have a BK KNG-P800, a Unication G5, and a SDS100. I use them all for different things, and they are each better and worse than the other at certain things. Suffice to say I personally prefer the KNG-P800 the most out of all 3, and use it the most when doing routine monitoring and scanning of my local systems. The G5 is helpful for its small size at times, and its better digital decode than the SDS100. The SDS100 is helpful for its Discovery mode, its ability to scan multiple systems simultaneously, it's ease of programming with RR data when traveling, and some other features. But the KNG-P800 radio is the one I'd keep if I had to give up two of the three. It works and sounds better than the other two in its intended application. I like the SDS100. It is better at P25 than any other consumer grade scanner I've used. But that isn't saying much. And I suspect those who think it is close to perfect for any P25 system just haven't spent much (or any) time with a KNG radio programmed for true RX only mode and priority scan.
 

magiclightman

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That is correct. A work-around is available to make an XTS (Phase I only obviously) or APX scan talkgroups without affiliating with the system if done correctly, and if you have access to the required system key. But there are downsides to this (including the inability to "sit" on a particular channel without programming it as a scan list by itself, a limited delay because you are scanning from a conventional channel, inability to have a priority scan list, and others). The BK Radios, on the other hand, were designed to permit true RX Only programming and monitoring without needing a system key and without loss of typical receive and scan features. Their software is also more freely purchased by anyone with a wallet, rather than having to jump through any additional hoops.



I have a BK KNG-P800, a Unication G5, and a SDS100. I use them all for different things, and they are each better and worse than the other at certain things. Suffice to say I personally prefer the KNG-P800 the most out of all 3, and use it the most when doing routine monitoring and scanning of my local systems. The G5 is helpful for its small size at times, and its better digital decode than the SDS100. The SDS100 is helpful for its Discovery mode, its ability to scan multiple systems simultaneously, it's ease of programming with RR data when traveling, and some other features. But the KNG-P800 radio is the one I'd keep if I had to give up two of the three. It works and sounds better than the other two in its intended application. I like the SDS100. It is better at P25 than any other consumer grade scanner I've used. But that isn't saying much. And I suspect those who think it is close to perfect for any P25 system just haven't spent much (or any) time with a KNG radio programmed for true RX only mode and priority scan.

Would the XTS be able to still scan with the TDMA modulation vs. FDMA on Phase 1? I saw someone on ebay saying he could program the XTS5000 to monitor a p25 system, it’s not TG scan its just any and all audio from the system, but I was weary that the TDMA modulation on the P25 voice wouldn’t work.

Btw, just realized this past weekend; Unication PPS now has CSV import support from RR, for both TG and Site info.


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IAmSixNine

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DonRollman is spot on with his statements. The only reason i carry my APX is because i still listen to stuff on multibands. So for me having a UHF and 700/800mhz capable radio is the feature that i need the most. But when im monitoring strictly 700/800 stuff i find my KNG2 and G4 get used the most. And as he pointed out, i my self keep my BCD436 handy for searching for new talk groups or searching or DMR stuff.
All of these devices have their pros and cons but ideally its what each individual user needs are for the device, their listening needs and location.
Im sure one day ill get an SDS100 but that day has not come yet. My G4 and KNG2 get more use as the P25 700/800 systems around me get more use.
 
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