P25 radio as ham / first responders scanner

[GlobalNorth]

Unless the used radios are a virtual giveaway, why would you want to?

Programming is not easy, the format isn't popular for most Hams, it lacks a VFO, and to me, seems more trouble than it is worth. On the other hand, some Hams love a byzantine challenge and this would qualify.

 

[ZeroKelvin]

You are correct about the hassle, I was trying to go a cheaper route than buying a scanner, I find the technology to be quite interesting and I still want to learn more about it. I am used to complex systems and I like to figure out things and l don't want to limit my understanding about radio technology. I learn best by actually getting my hands dirty.

 

[ofd8001]

Thank you for the information, but yes I am NOT looking to monitor trunked systems I just want to monitor dispatch FD and PD in phoenix az. I am becoming more interested in DMR, it seems like a p25 is a big hassle yet I still want to learn more about it.

Phoenix PD IS a trunked system as Maricopa SO. Phoenix FD, as I understand it, uses the trunked system for non-hazardous calls and uses VHF conventional for hazardous calls. Therefore your radio would need to be dual band capable, which I do not believe is the case for the XTS 3000. You mentioned the UHF version of the XTS 3000, which is not in use in the Phoenix area for PD/FD dispatch. The DES stuff pertains to encryption cable, though you'd need a keyloader ($$$) to use that feature.

By the time someone purchases an XTS3000 that would be trunked capable, sends it off to have the radio re-flashed (as in updating firmware) to deal with a trunked system and then finds someone knowledgeable enough to program it without affiliating with a system, you are approaching the cost of a scanner. I'd rather have the greater flexibility of a scanner - easier to program and can listen to more channels.

The only reason to entertain a radio such as the XTS3000 would be to overcome simulcast issues, but since the advent of the SDS line of scanners, that is no longer the case.

 

[ZeroKelvin]

Thank you very much! I found your response to be very informative. As you can tell I'm certainly new to the radio world, I tried to do some research on the subject and found that nobody seems to be using p25 radios to do what I was trying to do. I simply thought I could easily program the radio myself, I still want to learn more p25 radios and how they're programmed and how it works behind the scenes. Perhaps I'll delve more into it after I get my technicians license.

 

[ka3aaa]

If you want to program the radio by yourself buy a scanner, you will be better off in the long run and you will be able to do more with a scanner after you learn how to use it.

 

[ofd8001]

I simply thought I could easily program the radio myself, I still want to learn more p25 radios and how they're programmed and how it works behind the scenes. Perhaps I'll delve more into it after I get my technicians license.

I've done a fair amount of radio programming over the years. P25 and particularly P25 trunked are extremely challenging. It's the difference between being an EMT and a brain surgeon.

 

[k7ng]

I LOVE the Thales / Racal T25 (PRC6894) VHF portable. Easy FPP (& fast), software isn't hard to manage either. I have acquired 5 from various venues and 4 worked, 3 to spec and the 4th I was able to bring to full performance. I don't care much for the prices for the rechargeable batteries, but if I treat them right they should last long enough... I have never seen a UHF model, assuming they ever made one. I wish there was such a thing, and I had a couple.

 

[k7ng]

After going back thru the OP's post and responses later on, I see that the thread has drifted off center quite a bit. We see an outpouring of helpful suggestions that may be more diverse than necessary. So pointing back to the original intent:

The OP wants to hear PSB and Ham traffic too, and intends to get a license eventually. I'd make a rash assumption that he will want to have VHF (2M) TX and RX capability fairly soon. Since Maricopa County and the statewide networks are both Phase II and both 700 & 800 MHz, let's just forget a single-unit solution. A commercial multil-band P25 PII radio, if it can be obtained cheaply would be, as they say, of dubious provenance.
There aren't any ham radios with P25.
There aren't any ham radios that trunk.

Understanding the desire to minimize expense, I sincerely believe that a scanner with P25 PII capability and an analog-only, dual-band radio are the minimum to cover his needs. I am leaving the plus and minus factors regarding CCR's out of this. For listening only, just the scanner will do.
I tend to be reluctant to offer suggestions like this because there's bound to be a someone or two who will climb all over my case, but the OP seems like a nice guy who deserves a helping hand.

 

[KG7PBS]

If you do not know a radio programmer/tech, it will be very expensive to have a radio programmed for a P25 System, and you as the individual have to provide all the settings. I can tell you with certainty that if a "random guy" walked into any Motorola dealer asking for PD and Fire programming in my area they would not do it.

Even if they were conventional digital frequencies. radio set to not transmit in the personality you really wouldn't program a radio for someone to receive? I mean come on that's messed up of you.

 

[prcguy]

Yea, that's messed up.

Even if they were conventional digital frequencies. radio set to not transmit in the personality you really wouldn't program a radio for someone to receive? I mean come on that's messed up of you.

 

[K7MFC]

I am NOT looking to monitor trunked systems I just want to monitor dispatch FD and PD in phoenix az. I am becoming more interested in DMR, it seems like a p25 is a big hassle yet I still want to learn more about it.

Hello, fellow Phoenician! As others have already mentioned, the radio you are considering, a Motorola XTS3000 UHF, will not work for monitoring Phoenix PD or FD. These agencies use the Regional Wireless Cooperate system, which is a trunked system operating on frequencies outside what that radio covers. Additionally, this is a simulcast system, meaning multiple transmitters are simultaneously transmitting the same signal on the same frequencies, and many radios will suffer from simulcast distortion. As a result, many scanner listeners here in Phoenix recommend the Uniden SDS-100 or SDS-200, as they are capable of receiving these simulcast systems.

The XTS3000 is like a diamond tip concrete saw - very powerful, but made for a very specific application. It's not so great when you don't need to cut concrete. What you need is a scanner, which is like Swiss Army knife. Something that will do a lot of different things and do a pretty decent job at each.

Also, I wanted to point out that DMR != P25, if you were not aware. Each of these is a specific implementation of digital radio, DMR is not a general term for digital modes like P25.

Anyway, feel free to ask any additional questions over in the Arizona forum here. There is a pretty active scanner and ham radio community in the state!