Port aux Basque Newfoundland

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jlo

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that one i listed mike. you only hear them talk on it.
so how would you find the control channel.
and how would you know if it right or not.
thx j
 

mikewazowski

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You would need to setup a search range on your scanner.

If you only hear voice, then there's a good chance there's a control channel buzzing away somewhere.
 

struct_dj

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Hey mike, I hear them talking back and forth, and no their doesn't seem to be any continuous data on the frequency until a voice call comes in, and as i said before im on Bay St George 161.25000, which I programmed in on the Convention system option, cause the MOT/P25 system doesn't seem to work for me, or maybe I just don't know/understand how to set it up correctly, but on Convention its picks them up fine, well seems to, also when they do talk, the display shows P25 under the channel not sure why that is, as im using the Convention system with this frequency.
 

Jay911

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It's too bad you don't have a scanner that would run Unitrunker easily (either a scanner you have made the "discriminator tap" modification on, or a scanner with CC dump features like an XT-model Uniden or a GRE PSR-series). It would make it easier to figure it out (once you have the control channel pinned down, if there is one).

Sadly my trips to the rock don't take me up PaB way any more... it's all between St John's and Leading Tickles for me.

Take a look at the frequencies on this system:

Newfoundland Provincial Radio (Project 25) System Trunking System, Various, Newfoundland and Labrador - Scanner Frequencies

I would listen to them one at a time, and not just the ones listed for PaB. As we are still "learning" the system, there may be frequencies out there that nobody's submitted yet.

Also: Knowing what the control channel noise sounds like is important. These samples are taken from the page at this link which is a very useful thing to check if you are trying to figure out what a particular noise is.

These may sound the same, but they are different. Does the control channel sound like this and/or this? If so, it's a regular Motorola type II system, and I would be surprised if it is this, considering that the east half of the province built out a new P25 system a year or three ago.

Does it sound like this one? That's P25. Scanner users can get the two confused because early digital capable scanners mixed the names for Motorola Type II and APCO Project 25 together. The Motorola Type II trunking listed in the paragraph above this one is a proprietary format that Motorola owns. Its control channel passes data at the speed of 3600 bits per second. The Project 25 data stream in this paragraph is designed by a consortium called APCO, which is an independent body not tied to any manufacturer. Its control channel data moves at 9600 bits per second. (Purists, I know this may not be exactly perfectly correct, but it serves the purpose for this discussion.)

A P25 control channel can apparently also sound like this, but when I was listening to the system on the east side of the province a couple years ago, it sounded like the one in the paragraph above this one.

Don't confuse any of this with "P25 audio", which sounds like this (if your scanner is not turning it into normal voice traffic). This sound is voice traffic that is carried on a trunk system (or as a conventional frequency non-trunked) and has no bearing on what type of trunk system is in use (in terms of Motorola Type II or Project 25).

The NAC is a Network Access Code which is kind of similar to the CTCSS/DCS code on an analog control channel. (Again, experts, just let the explanation stand.) On a trunk system, the NAC (which is always 3 hexadecimal characters from 0-9 and A-F) will be the last two characters of the system ID, plus one character which describes the Connect Tone of the trunk site. That part isn't really important right now, but for that trunk system I mentioned up at the top of this message, any (digital) voice channels you pick up should have a NAC of 0C# (where # is some number or letter from 0-9,A-F). If you pick up a NAC that's some other value, it's very likely that it's not part of that "Newfoundland Provincial Radio P25" trunk system.

If you do find a control channel noise and set it up in your scanner as Mot Type II or P25, put your scanner in HOLD MODE on that frequency/system (after you've programmed it in) and watch the display. It's been a long time since I used a T version (instead of an XT), but if memory serves, you should still get the same info on the screen. You should see the system ID on the top line. On my local system, it displays "SID:753Fh-003" which means I am listening to system 753F, site #3. If you see something like that, with just four characters between the : and the h, that's a Motorola Type II system. A P25 system will show up differently, and I'm sorry, but I don't recall exactly how it looks since I (at this time) don't have any P25 systems in my area. Someone else will certainly be able to explain, though; you should see references to both the SysID (or SID) and WACN, as well as site info. The SID of the Newfoundland provincial system is 00C and the WACN is 0000C (and these are completely separate, unique numbers; don't let their similarity fool you). Anyway, if you gather that kind of info from listening to/holding on the control channel, we'll know a lot more about what system(s) you have in PaB.

Of course, don't forget to submit any confirmed data you come up with :)
 

struct_dj

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Thanks for all the info jay, very helpful, the sound you refer to "Does it sound like this one? That's P25" well I do hear this sound, on Bay St George 161.25000 once in awhile, somtimes right before they speak
 

struct_dj

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If this is the control channel, or if I happing to find it, what do I do with it ? just entering it in the MOT/P25 system as a new frequency, along with my the talk channels I find ? also I don't understand the TG id in this MOT/P25 system, is it even needed ? and if it is needed, how do I find it ?

PS i`m very new to this hobby, and I must admit its very overwhelming.
 

struct_dj

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I think its a single site trunking jobby, cause i`am hearing what sounds be to the control channel, on the same and only channel I hear them talking on, when ever I do hear them talking, which doesn't seem to be very often, also Ive noticed when I used the same frequency 161.2500 in MOT/P25 mode, I can see that it does pick something up cause the signal bars go up, but theirs no sound. Mike mentioned if this was the case my 396T wouldn't pick it up, so it makes scene, looks like i'll have to invest in a better scanner, any suggestions ?
 

ve1sef

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These are what I ended up with after my trip last June. You might be able to put a location to
some of these.
NL P25 System
site cc
Clarenville 153.29
Corner Brook ? 160.2
Gander 160.485
Grand Falls-Windsor? 160.59
Glovertown 160.59
Port aux Basque 153.29
Port aux Basque 158.58
Stephenville ? 160.59
Below are search hits I saved while mobile, couldn't narrow the sites down.
161.25
159.06
155.34
160.58
160.34
159.69
155.64
160.41
160.8
159.12
160.335
161.49
155.28
155.88
160.865
155.58
 
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struct_dj

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Hey guys Im thinking about getting the GRE PSR-500 scanner, can someone tell me if this unit supports nac keys and also single site trunking on P25
 

Jay911

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The PSR500 supports NAC. I'm pretty sure it does single-site as well. I know the Uniden 396XT does.
 

struct_dj

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This is the only unit i can buy in town, here s a link to it Grecom PSR500C Digital Trunking Handheld Scanner | Scanners | Ratings & Reviews | TheSource.ca

Also I Fund on another site a dsecription about its P25.

[P25 NAC Functionality - Much like CTCSS and DCS with analog signals, P25 Network Access Code (NAC) is used to provide selective squelch operation on conventional P25 digital channels. GRE's PSR-500 Advanced Digital Scanner will detect the NAC that is being used on a P25 conventional digital channel, and will allow you to program NAC codes to block transmissions that do not have a matching NAC, including analog traffic on the same frequency!] Not sure if it means can use single site unless this " NAC that is being used on a P25 conventional digital channel" means it does, P25 conventional digital channel ? now im confused lol
 
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struct_dj

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Also found this on another site about the until.
NOTE: This scanner does not trunk OpenSky Trunking Systems, It is also not able to decode encrypted audio or talk-groups, It is also NOT able to decode Digital ProVoice or Digital OpenSky Audio Modulation Modes.
 

Jay911

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That blurb doesn't have anything to do with single-site trunking, it only refers to conventional non-trunking uses of P25.

This thread http://forums.radioreference.com/radio-shack-scanners/208104-radio-ids-single-frequency-p25.html doesn't seem to answer for you one way or the other but is the closest I could come at getting an answer via a quick search.

EDIT: ProVoice and OpenSky are completely unrelated to P25 trunking. OpenSky is a digital system not used in Newfoundland and ProVoice is a digital voice format that is used on the Newfoundland EDACS system, but no scanner can decode it at present, so it's no matter.
 

struct_dj

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Ic, sounds like snake buddy, is looking on getting radio ID's on a single channel P25 system to display on his units screen. He seems to be on a single channel P25 system, wonder if displaying radio ID's is his only problem, I don't care about Displaying radio ID's unless this is needed, I just want to know if the P 25 single channel system works well with this until
 

Jay911

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One way or another I would say you will be able to hear P25 audio with that scanner. You might ask in the GRE forum if it can do "P25 single frequency trunking".
 

struct_dj

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Jay you been tons of help man, kudos to you. I`ll do just that...TC... Aslo once I have this running I will be steaming this off my site, if you want access let me know
 

struct_dj

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Jay, I found a control channel its 160.5900, its making that p25 noise continuously, and it also displays NAC 02C along side it, now what should I do with this control channel, on my PSR 500
 
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Jay911

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Hmmmm... there may be two trunk systems in Newfoundland then.

Did you get a PSR-500 after all? Did you get the USB cable with it (with the blue plastic piece in the middle of it)? If so, you have a great radio for Unitrunker, which listens to this control channel and feeds you all sorts of data. Unitrunker is a piece of software you run on a Windows computer. It's not necessarily used for listening to the actual conversation, but it can tell you if that is an actual trunk system, if there are other frequencies in use, what the talkgroup IDs are, and so on.

If you did get a PSR-500 and are interested in trying Unitrunker, let me know and I'll write up a step-by-step setup document so you can give it a shot.
 

struct_dj

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I did get it Jay, and yes I have the usb adapter and would love to try the Unitrunker software
 
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