RadioReference Receives a DMCA Takedown Notice from Priority Dispatch Corp.

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Tim-B

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But they haven't figured out a way to make money off plain English. So, we get stupid stuff like this.

Reminds me of a George Carlin bit. He says, "Has anyone ever said to you tell us in your own words what you saw. Do you have your own words? I don't know about you but I am using the same words everyone else is using. Next time some asks you do describe something in your own words tell em' niff blat blondo quarnee fluuuu."
 

902

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Clawson's principles are sound, and his system is proven to save lives.

Well, to their credit, NHTSA should be the one credited with the foresight to provide pre-arrival instructions. Clawson embellished those (not meant in a pejorative manner). He didn't stop there, though. The contemporary organization is now advocating to remove lights and sirens from EMS vehicles, which, IMO, downgrades the service to a semi-skilled taxi ride. Unfortunately, not all areas are the same, and not all callers answer questions accurately, so a serious "Delta" or "Echo" call may be downplayed, while an "Alpha" or "Omega" (out-triage to Uber) might be presented as urgent. I can't tell you how many times I responded to a cardiac or shooting only to find someone with shopping bags packed with clothes, crochet needles and yarn, or other stuff to get to their clinic appointments when I was street. Some folks knew how to answer the questions to manipulate the system.

Along with some common sense improvements over the decades, it has also become overkill. The level of complexity, among other things, is attractive to managers and administrators who see a standard, protocol-based system and mandatory certification as a pathway to reduction in liability exposure - all at a premium price.
IAED / PRC also pushes for model legislation and regulatory changes that make a system like theirs mandatory in many states.

I took the NAED (I guess before IAED) training in 1997 when I introduced EMD to the communications center I was the technical director at. I generally tried to stay away from the hot seat, but when I did take several calls, I felt having been a paramedic was more of a liability than something that added value to the process. I was literally sitting on the edge of my seat wanting to say things NAED would not allow me to say. There were also a few times I felt where the guide cards went down the wrong track and down a rabbit hole. My wife was an EMT with no street background and took to EMD much better than I did.

The one thing all of the EMD programs did was level the playing field to try to create a uniform environment and constant quality of service no matter who was working. Without it, if you had an emergency, 9-1-1 might tell you "we can't tell you what you should do, you'll get the next available ambulance, okay?" or you might get a paramedic or RN who tells you the right thing, or you might get a paramedic or RN who tells you the wrong thing (like doing a field caesarian). You might get someone who was very good. You might get someone who was one week into the job. You might get someone who is totally burnt. It was the luck of the draw. EMD removed any discretion and created ministerial direction. No matter who answered the phone, they should all be giving simple and defensible instructions that are consistent. It's similar to the techniques that call centers and help desks use in their scripted responses.

I'm guessing we'll see artificial intelligence with speech recognition algorithms "reading" human callers and extracting whatever information is needed without human intervention, probably in the next 10 - 15 years. People won't even know they're talking to an AI. One of the non-Clawson EMD programs is already using AI for continuous quality improvement audits, scoring 100% of the calls, instead of just using representative samples.
 

sallen07

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The contemporary organization is now advocating to remove lights and sirens from EMS vehicles, which, IMO, downgrades the service to a semi-skilled taxi ride.

I was at the gas station on Saturday filling up my wife's call and heard a siren, and that made me think of a similar comment about "traffic moving devices" that was made a few days ago. Not to take us off on a tangent, but are you kidding me?

In this case, the siren (which was blaring, and then they switched to one of the alternate sounds as they went through a couple intersections) was attached to an ambulance that, based on the organization name and the direction it was going, was headed "red" to a hospital with a patient on-board, trying to get there ASAP to save a life.

What possible justification could this organization offer for turning ambulances into taxis? If that had been me in that rig, or someone that I cared about, I sure as heck would want them to use those lights and sirens to shave a couple minutes off the trip!
 

902

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Not to take us off on a tangent, but are you kidding me?
Afraid not. I'll need to find the article in social media and post it to the Tavern when I have time. I'll tag you so you can read it. I don't want to steer too far off course in this thread. After a while, it's like kabuki theater. Many of the same players have an agenda, and I guess the big EMD shops want to be able to control the field response and claim they have the safety solution. My assertion is that this is biased by a self-perpetuating "academy" which has stakeholders from everything but EMS. But this is also the reason why EMS doesn't advance. Current EMS practitioners are the ones who need to be doing this kind of research as to what's more efficacious in patient outcome, and unlike other research, this needs to be area-centric considering Midtown Manhattan is a lot different operating environment than Troy, Missouri.
 

I_am_Alpha1

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I was an EMD quite a few years back. Took the Clawson training and gots me an EMD--that and $1.07 will get me a soda at McD. Then I had my agency buy the MPDS system on cardex--we paid NO WHERE near that amount...and at the time, it included lifetime updates. Pure extortion, RR could outright buy into the system for a fraction of the attempted extorted amount. I didn't find a price on their website, but did find a quote they gave to Minot ND two years ago...$4,000 per license and just over $1K for annual renewal. Man they seriously nickel and dime agencies these days.

It's total bull****. There are law firms that specialize is searching out ways to extort money...then they go to the company and say hey, we'll go after these people on your behalf and it'll cost you nothing...we'll keep most of the money for ourselves. Remember the DirecTV/Dish lawsuit threats--over 3,000 threatened lawsuits and all were tossed. Their entire protocols are listed on Wikipedia...did they get a letter as well?
 

K5TUE

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Patent Trolls are everywhere these days. Someone has probably patented or copywrited the round Texas Flag I'm using as an avatar and I will be sued into oblivion soon.

It was nice knowing ya'll.
 
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AJAT

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Patent Trolls are everywhere these days. Someone has probably patented or copywrited the round Texas Flag I'm using as an avatar and I will be sued into oblivion soon.

It was nice knowing ya'll.
Well actually I do have copyright on that round Texas flag. But don’t worry I am reasonable. If you give me $200,000 a month you can keep using it.
 

PrivatelyJeff

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Well actually I do have copyright on that round Texas flag. But don’t worry I am reasonable. If you give me $200,000 a month you can keep using it.

Well I have the copyright on the colors red, blue and white when used with a lone star so you both owe me $500k a month:ROFLMAO:
 

Randyk4661

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Well actually I do have copyright on that round Texas flag. But don’t worry I am reasonable. If you give me $200,000 a month you can keep using it.
Maybe if you ask nice, Elon Musk will buy the the copyrights and patents for you. Don't expect Trump to give up the ownership on the colors of Red, White & Blue so easily.
 

VFN05

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But you see…those are customers. They don’t want to anger customers, but DGAF about anyone else.

As someone who has been on the receiving end of systems such as these, they eliminate any ability for dispatchers to think and essentially turn them into robots. Why not just turn it into a touch tone response system. (“For bleeding, press or say 1”)

Do these guys realize that you are inadvertently PROMOTING their system, and they’re doing their best to screw themselves.

Anyone who considers this freely available and often broadcast information to be IP should really check themselves.
 

902

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But you see…those are customers. They don’t want to anger customers, but DGAF about anyone else.

As someone who has been on the receiving end of systems such as these, they eliminate any ability for dispatchers to think and essentially turn them into robots. Why not just turn it into a touch tone response system. (“For bleeding, press or say 1”)
That's exactly what they are. They limit your ability to respond outside of the cookie cutter of the program and, if they're wrong, they'll send a lawyer to defend their product (and, coincidentally, their customer). Having actually bought the product, their big selling point is to provide a consistent least common denominator in pre-arrival instruction and caller screening. Now, they're also promoting themselves as a risk management tool by pointing at "literature" (generally formed from anecdotes rather than sound research) they've created that indicates less probability for EMS vehicle collisions when the EMS program follows their response determinants. So, not only have we removed the experiential discretion of the telecommunicator, but also that of the EMTs or paramedics responding.

Expect that in the next few years, as IVR and AI technologies advance, that when you call E9-1-1, you'll be speaking with an artificial intelligence that's asking you questions and extracting the relevant responses from you, also measuring the level of duress through voice stress analysis (as if that's even possible with heavy compression from cellular audio) and flagging anything out of the ordinary to a human. An AI will bank up millions of 9-1-1 calls from anywhere subscribing to its system and will heuristically "learn" what's serious and what isn't. You probably won't be able to tell real or synthetic. That AI would allow current staffing levels with NG9-1-1 technologies, like streaming video and other things that are supposed to be "better," but really perform information overload to the public safety telecommunicator and require greater processing than simply speaking with the caller.

At least one EMD system is already doing 100% continuous quality improvement audits by means of an AI scanning every 9-1-1 call. This grades the telecommunicator on one thing, and one thing only: how rigorously they adhered to the EMD protocol, not by the total outcome of the call. The proliferation of administrators who see beating down individual initiative for ministerial compliance as a positive was one of the reasons why I left the communications center end of things and went into radio infrastructure.

As for your first paragraph, isn't that the way all modern businesses work?
 

KK4JUG

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First of all, 902, you have a lot of nerve trying to keep this thread on topic. :) It seems to have wandered a lot.

Second, you make some very good points but you miss one point: not all dispatchers/call takers/etc. are capable of making some of those decisions. Coupled with that is the fact that the available pool of potential employees doesn't seem to be getting any better.
 

902

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First of all, 902, you have a lot of nerve trying to keep this thread on topic. :) It seems to have wandered a lot.

Second, you make some very good points but you miss one point: not all dispatchers/call takers/etc. are capable of making some of those decisions. Coupled with that is the fact that the available pool of potential employees doesn't seem to be getting any better.
Oh, I'm well aware. Today, some organizations offer their public safety telecommunicators $27,000/yr (happening down south of you) and wonder why they come in for two shifts and leave without notice. And, the need for an EMD of some sort is only a framework to establish a least common denominator. There are talented people, and there are people who are simply inexperienced. There are also people who, for whatever reason, can follow the guide cards, but cannot think on their feet. This brings the talented ones down, and the others up. Same with whoever's working the shift in the street. There are times you feel like they have your back and times you want to bubblewrap yourself and hide (at least I did...). At least this creates some "no matter who's working" level of service.

The bigger problem is when there's an ambulance mishap (I don't call them "accidents"), a certain physician always seems to make the morning talk show circuit plugging his "solution" to wrangle EMS. Mind you, that physician has never been an EMT or paramedic, and, to my knowledge, he has never taken EVOC or CEVO, nor has he responded as a motor vehicle operator to an emergency incident (to my knowledge). Why is the EMS community open to being wrangled in such manner? Where are they in self-governance and factual research/statistical data to control their destiny in such matters? It's the tip of a much deeper iceberg, as the structure of some EMS organizations wouldn't be tolerated in other public services.

As a long-time paramedic from a third-service environment, and someone who's managed a countywide E9-1-1 system, I'm fairly passionate about this topic, as I am about bringing EMS to the point where other health care "professions" are in terms of determining their unique body of knowledge separate from all the other peripheral personnel, like doctors, RNs, and "others" who don't exclusively perform the EMS function. Some of my fellow white hats have likened this to "fighting the fire from the [dispatch switch-] board."

And there's LEO guide cards and fire guide cards now, too. Everyone knows the job better than the people who do it - and they'll tell you.

EMD has greater value when it advises, but not when it directs.
 
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