Roseville Galleria Mall Swat call-up

[clanusb]

The fire was not set inside the store, but rather above the store, and thus (I think) above the sprinklers. I was under the impression that the robot came from SSD. I not aware of Roseville having one of their own.

An ATF response team arrived yesterday morning and took over the fire scene and will have control of it at least through the weekend.

the fire was set inside the store. the guy ran up into the attic to try and escape from swat. swat had to back off because of the fire and smoke. *which at this point was being held at bay by the sprinkler and hvac systems doing their job.* the guy thought that swat/pd had evac'd the building and he proceeded to come back down. swat caught him walking out and questioned him. his story kept changing and they determined he was the one. they asked about the backpack, he was uncooperative. PD sent in the robot, but pd was complaining about the alarms. So they shut down the alarm system. next was the sprinkler system cause the water was interfering. then finally was the power to the building thus shutting down the hvac systems. roseville pd should be the agency blamed for the damages, since it was they who ignored the warnings from fire about shutting down the sprinkler system. if the sprinklers had not been shut down the fire wouldnt have gotten into the attic space and spread as it did. also..if the power/hvac was left alone you wouldnt have had the massive smoke damage and water damage that is apparent almost as far down as nordstroms. it'll be months before that place is opened back up again, IF were lucky.

 

[SignalSeeker]

The fire was not set inside the store, but rather above the store, and thus (I think) above the sprinklers. I was under the impression that the robot came from SSD. I not aware of Roseville having one of their own.

I was told that Placer County had there own robot. Most likely past tense.

Justin

 

[avtarsingh]

maybe ssd can give rpd some classes

 

[gmclam]

Regarding the robot, I heard it had come from Placer county or Roseville (not Sacramento).

There is a live press conference being held right now (15:15). Live streaming from several media web sites. I am watching via KXTV-DT (10.1).

 

[crucialcolin]

the fire was set inside the store. the guy ran up into the attic to try and escape from swat. swat had to back off because of the fire and smoke. *which at this point was being held at bay by the sprinkler and hvac systems doing their job.* the guy thought that swat/pd had evac'd the building and he proceeded to come back down. swat caught him walking out and questioned him. his story kept changing and they determined he was the one. they asked about the backpack, he was uncooperative. PD sent in the robot, but pd was complaining about the alarms. So they shut down the alarm system. next was the sprinkler system cause the water was interfering. then finally was the power to the building thus shutting down the hvac systems. roseville pd should be the agency blamed for the damages, since it was they who ignored the warnings from fire about shutting down the sprinkler system. if the sprinklers had not been shut down the fire wouldnt have gotten into the attic space and spread as it did. also..if the power/hvac was left alone you wouldnt have had the massive smoke damage and water damage that is apparent almost as far down as nordstroms. it'll be months before that place is opened back up again, IF were lucky.

hrm come to think of I did hear some radio traffic on the FD side(of of the tacs) that someone in charge from law enforcement gave them the okay to turn the sprinkler systems back on shortly after the flair up started. By then of course it was too late. So I suspect this what happened. I would not be surprised if we see the city get hit with a major lawsuit from Westfield by the time the investigation is over.


As for the sprinkler system themselves I've heard that the Galleria uses Simplex Grinnell Systems which is supposedly the premier leader in fire and safety systems.
http://www.simplexgrinnell.com/Pages/default.aspx

 

[WayneH]

Has anyone caught ATF chatting on the radio? I'd guess they're using their "TAC" channels.

Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[crucialcolin]

It seems like they use P25 which require a digital scanner. I was interested in listening in myself but my 246t only does analog trunking. I'd be curious to know if anyone is able to listen in who has one of the newer scanners however my guess is it could be encrypted as well?

 

[RolnCode3]

OK, I've gotten to the point where I finally have to say something.

No civilians were injured. No firefighters were injured. No police officers were injured. Heck, the suspect wasn't even injured. AND, he's in custody.

Most of the people here have probably never even worked at a scene like this. Much less been in command. This is way outside "normal" for any agency.

You guys need to lighten up a little bit. RPD should be blamed? What about the guy who set the fire? When information comes in about bombs you have to take it seriously. What would everyone be saying if there was a device and firefighters had gone in with a live device?

It seems that unless the building was completely undamaged everyone here will find fault. I view it as damage to a building. We can repair that. Was it a perfect response? Probably not. They never are. I laugh when you guys suggest that SSD would somehow have handled this perfectly. I respect the officers (and their dispatchers too!) but be realistic. Yes, they would probably do a good job. But I can easily see (well, I guess there's no real comparable in the County anymore) the same resolution.

I am not attacking anyone, but I think the criticism is undue and overly harsh (at the very minimum, premature).

 

[crucialcolin]

I didn't mention this before hand but in the end it was important no one got injured. So in that sense they did a great job. I'm glad they didn't let anyone go in and evacuated the place.

My only real complaint is maybe they could have better prepared for something like this? Especially in our modern world and with the Galleria being one northern California's larger mall its conceivable that someone could want to bring a bomb into the mall while starting a separate fire or worse.

If they truly did tell the fire department to disable the fire sprinkler system while it was evident there was still smoke and fire in the building then they did drop the ball and the only place possible. As i understand this was visible from the outside of the build the entire time. It would have been better to just leave the sprinklers running while still not letting anyone inside including sending in the robot until hours later or figuring out a way to solve the problem of it not working so well in the wet environment. Surely with all the personal that were involved someone had to have had some good ideas. Heck maybe another agency might have access to a better robot for this particular job.

If they lost the building anyways in the meantime or later on so be it at least they gave the sprinklers a good long chance to save it without risking anyone's life. There was not anything rushing them to go in after a possible bomb in a timely fashion either because if blew without anyone near the only loss would have been the structure.


The only other thing I've noticed there seemingly hasn't been as much cooperation/integration as some of the other area malls when it comes to outside law enforcement and mall security. The only times I've ever heard or seen RPD being on scene at the mall is for thefts, or occasional disturbance that security cant handle on its own. For example every time I have ever been down to Arden they have Sac PD officers regularly patrolling the inside of that mall along with security all over the place. Likewise with a couple of malls in the bay area I've been too(SF, San Jose) Of course I suppose they could have done things behind the scenes here.

So I have some Critisms in the end nothing major though.

 

[NWtoSFO]

RPD has 2 officers that walk the mall everyday. They may not be there all day long, but this is Roseville, not Arden (where PD should be "the" security). Galleria has a lot of roving security, inside and out.

I agree with RolnCode3. Maybe more structure burned than was nessecery, but if not a single person was injured, and the mall can be rebuilt, what exactly is there to complain about? Someone thought there was a bomb. A firefighter's job is not to risk his life for a structure, especially if no one is at risk of dying. I must not understand what so many are complaining about.

 

[blizzardx23]

Dont take what Im saying as a bash against RPD...thats not the case...they are still officers and that alone should be respected...but coming from someone who HAS been in tactical situations, I have all the justified right in the world to say what I feel...I've been there, done that...I doubt the majority of RPD has. This isnt about me though, nor do I want to sound like an arrogant ass.


The fact is...PRD doesnt deal with half of what Sac does...Roseville is a nice quiet little town. Sac has MUCH more training...thats facts...just listen to your scanner at night...

AGAIN, Im not saying officers at RPD are bad people...but they are pampered...and I dont believe they have had the proper training to handle a situation like this.

I wonder if their robot even works in the rain..

 

[Duster]

OK, I've gotten to the point where I finally have to say something.

No civilians were injured. No firefighters were injured. No police officers were injured. Heck, the suspect wasn't even injured. AND, he's in custody.

Most of the people here have probably never even worked at a scene like this. Much less been in command. This is way outside "normal" for any agency.

You guys need to lighten up a little bit. RPD should be blamed? What about the guy who set the fire? When information comes in about bombs you have to take it seriously. What would everyone be saying if there was a device and firefighters had gone in with a live device?

It seems that unless the building was completely undamaged everyone here will find fault. I view it as damage to a building. We can repair that. Was it a perfect response? Probably not. They never are. I laugh when you guys suggest that SSD would somehow have handled this perfectly. I respect the officers (and their dispatchers too!) but be realistic. Yes, they would probably do a good job. But I can easily see (well, I guess there's no real comparable in the County anymore) the same resolution.

I am not attacking anyone, but I think the criticism is undue and overly harsh (at the very minimum, premature).

+1

Well said Bill. I've been lurking on the sidelines listening to the quarterbacks bring out their armchairs, and have held my tongue. I can speak from personal experience in this instance. I've been there...with the involved departments, from the inside, boots on the ground, not from the outside looking in. This was a tremendously dynamic situation that all the training in the world will not prepare you for. I was present when this mall was built, I was involved in tactical response training for this facility, and I was involved in preplanning for both fire and police incidents in this facility. The training didn't measure up to the real thing. Period. These agencies did not have a valid playbook for this incident, because it was a very unique set of circumstances.

RolnCode3 hit the nail on the head. PROPERTY DAMAGE ONLY. NO INJURIES, EVEN TO THE SUSPECT. SUSPECT IN CUSTODY.

With an incident of this scope, including a significant roof collapse, having NO injuries is almost a miracle. Then factor in the FACT that even with the fire run, they saved 75% of the mall, and part of the mall may be open again by THIS SATURDAY!

I have sat on this board for several years and listened to people bash Roseville public safety everytime they have a critical incident. While the city of Roseville has its issues, the professionalism and training of its police officers and firefighters is not part of the problem. They have excellent cops and firemen. They do an excellent job, and they give the citizens of Roseville the elevated level of service that those same citizens pay them for. They make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes, because they are human with all the foibles that go with the human condition. But so does every other agency on earth, and I'll bet almost every 'quarterback' on here has done something in their personal or professional lives that they would REALLY not like to see scrutinized in a public forum.

If you have never been in the dark with nothing between you and the suspect but your gun and flashlight, maybe you shouldn't be throwing accusations about how badly they screwed up. This is going to be investigated ad nauseum, and there will be enough sh*t flying around to splatter on everyone, rest assured. Don't add to the problem with semi-founded speculation and rumor. We can do better than that.

<--- off the soapbox

 

[Duster]

Dont take what Im saying as a bash against RPD...thats not the case...they are still officers and that alone should be respected...but coming from someone who HAS been in tactical situations, I have all the justified right in the world to say what I feel...I've been there, done that...I doubt the majority of RPD has. This isnt about me though, nor do I want to sound like an arrogant ass.


The fact is...PRD doesnt deal with half of what Sac does...Roseville is a nice quiet little town. Sac has MUCH more training...thats facts...just listen to your scanner at night...

AGAIN, Im not saying officers at RPD are bad people...but they are pampered...and I dont believe they have had the proper training to handle a situation like this.

I wonder if their robot even works in the rain..

Ohhh...where to start...

1. Roseville is not a nice quiet LITTLE town. Roseville is a bustling city of almost 120,000 people. Roseville has every crime Sacramento has, just in smaller doses. They train for the exact same incidents that Sacramento officers train for, and in the six years I worked there, we worked every type of crime commonly encountered.

2. Roseville officers are not pampered. The citizens of Roseville pay for the level of service they receive. It isn't easy, and it isn't all driving around all day hittin' the donut shops. The expectations placed on a Roseville police officer are much higher than many surrounding agencies, especially Sacramento city and county. Roseville officers have to deal with the 'crap' calls, the 'whiny' calls, that larger surrounding agencies say, "we aren't coming out for that...we have to many other important calls to handle". They don't have the luxury of only handling the hot calls because that's all you have time for. You are expected to provide an excellent level of service to every customer, whether its the millionaire or the transient. You are scrutinized to a much higher level than officers in surrounding agencies, once again because that is what the citizens there expect. Not very fair, but that's what happens... And that is NOT a bash on other agencies; They have to deal with a much different demographic in their daily routine. It makes for a different perspective.

3. The majority of Roseville officers are in fact lateral officers from other agencies, often (like me) from much bigger (and more active) agencies. That is a big reason why Roseville is a professional agency...their officers have a significant amount of experience beyond what they normally see in Roseville. If you have in fact "Been there, done that", as you say, and in quantities sufficient to give you expertise in these matters, then you probably would not be quarterbacking from your sofa. I have, and for a significant amount of time, and with a large very active agency. Don't second-guess what you do not know.

4. Yes, the bomb robot works in the rain...just like the cops and firefighters do. That comment alone makes a lie of your statement that you are not wanting to bash RPD.

 

[blizzardx23]

Ohhh...where to start...

1. Roseville is not a nice quiet LITTLE town. Roseville is a bustling city of almost 120,000 people. Roseville has every crime Sacramento has, just in smaller doses. They train for the exact same incidents that Sacramento officers train for, and in the six years I worked there, we worked every type of crime commonly encountered.

2. Roseville officers are not pampered. The citizens of Roseville pay for the level of service they receive. It isn't easy, and it isn't all driving around all day hittin' the donut shops. The expectations placed on a Roseville police officer are much higher than many surrounding agencies, especially Sacramento city and county. Roseville officers have to deal with the 'crap' calls, the 'whiny' calls, that larger surrounding agencies say, "we aren't coming out for that...we have to many other important calls to handle". They don't have the luxury of only handling the hot calls because that's all you have time for. You are expected to provide an excellent level of service to every customer, whether its the millionaire or the transient. You are scrutinized to a much higher level than officers in surrounding agencies, once again because that is what the citizens there expect. Not very fair, but that's what happens... And that is NOT a bash on other agencies; They have to deal with a much different demographic in their daily routine. It makes for a different perspective.

3. The majority of Roseville officers are in fact lateral officers from other agencies, often (like me) from much bigger (and more active) agencies. That is a big reason why Roseville is a professional agency...their officers have a significant amount of experience beyond what they normally see in Roseville. If you have in fact "Been there, done that", as you say, and in quantities sufficient to give you expertise in these matters, then you probably would not be quarterbacking from your sofa. I have, and for a significant amount of time, and with a large very active agency. Don't second-guess what you do not know.

4. Yes, the bomb robot works in the rain...just like the cops and firefighters do. That comment alone makes a lie of your statement that you are not wanting to bash RPD.

I spent 2007 to 2009 in Iraq, yes...I do know what the hell Im talking about. I did travel from base to base (wasnt a fobit)...small arms, mortars, etc...thats normal to encounter quite often when in an artillery unit..yes, we've searched buildings, and yes, we did have to deal with IEDs...so dont make the mistake of thinking Im some fat ass on a sofa talking about stuff I have no clue about. (plus, I'm sitting in a char in my office bouncing between computer, and installing new windows in my truck....not a sofa)


Population
Sacramento City - 486,200
Roseville - 115,781

Roseville is not even 1/4 the size of Sac City

1) A few annual training exercise PER YEAR does not mean a department is ready to handle that kind of situation. It takes experience and constant training.

I bet if you put an EOD team in there, it would have been taken care of A LOT faster...why is that? because thats all they train for...they did what they could with the experience and knowledge that they had. Was it horrible? NO...could it have had a better outcome if another department with more experience would have taken over? most likely.



2) Crime Stats

Roseville - 2003 (maybe someone can find updated stats?)

Murder: 4
Forcible Rape: 22
Robbery: 68
Aggravated Assault: 172
Burglary: 572
Larceny or Theft: 2,650
Car Theft: 430
Arson: 10


Sac City - 2003

Murder: 43
Forcible Rape: 187
Robbery: 1,630
Aggravated Assault: 1,560
Burglary: 5,606
Larceny or Theft: 15,374
Car Theft: 7,286
Arson: 401


Roseville IS a nice pampered town, and the PD has it a lot easier there than MANY other cities..and of course, they have it worse then some cities as well...I live off Baseline...for over 10 years...And I'll tell you, Roseville is a LOT quieter then North Highlands, DPH, Citrus Heights, or Sac..


The robot question was an honest question, NOT a bash...so no, it does NOT make a lie out of my statement...but take it however you want.


Since you are on the inside, lets ALL set our assumptions aside....Your one of the guys with the most legitimate information (No sarcasm, I'm being serious). Why would they need to turn off the water? And why did it take them so long to capture the guy?

 

[avtarsingh]

i am with you blizz

i was a peace officer .. military and calif for almost 25 years
i wouldnt call myself an armchair qb - i would call myself a qb who helped drive the team to the end zone for almost 25 years..i was no hero.. but i did a good job and nobody got hurt around me

dont take the "bashing" of rpd as an "assault" against the officers... THEY dont make the decisions

we ALL know from law enforcement and military - the people who call the shots make or break the whole situation

i think rpd approached "My Pet Goat " status when the stuff hit the fan.. just sit and keep reading the book to the kids.. dont act

bliz knows as well as do i - we had the facts from the get go - a possibly solo guy with MAYBE a gun holed up in the bathroom..and some kind of device ... at last report ..

a tac team with a bomb k9 could have sealed off the area pretty damn quick
they could have also escorted the FF so they can do their job

yes its a plus that nobody was hurt - but it was 10am on a weekday.. what did you expect ?

theres a lot of guys with a LOT of combat experience who get ignored by upper div staff.

i recall an idiot sgt trying to lecture an officer how to aim his weapon - his reply "i shot about 20 people in iraq and afghanistan- how many people have you shot sarge ? "

this is the mindset of a LOT of upper staff in law enforcement they dont how to make use of resources and act decisively

the RPD LT who was dealing with the media handled them VERY well...hes one of the best LE officers i have seen handle media in fact...

its too bad HE wasnt in charge of tactical.. he seemed to know what was going on and how to deal with stress

WHICH is why i said (and what bliz said) .. ssd could give rpd some training not cause RPD is dumb or bad or slackers... they dont have the tactical experience!!

cause ssd is BADASS and handles things like not many other depts i have seen BECAUSE OF THEIR TRAINING
i have heard many shots fired where ssd deputies were under fire and they made me very proud....RPD just doesnt get this kind of training

how many here have more than 25 years as a peace officer ?

like i said before.. when a potential wack job comes into your store mumbling and asks "wheres the bathroom" tell him "dont have one"

its a shame there aren't more armed citizens - lambs to the slaughter

 

[Duster]

I spent 2007 to 2009 in Iraq, yes...I do know what the hell Im talking about. I did travel from base to base (wasnt a fobit)...small arms, mortars, etc...thats normal to encounter quite often when in an artillery unit..yes, we've searched buildings, and yes, we did have to deal with IEDs...so dont make the mistake of thinking Im some fat ass on a sofa talking about stuff I have no clue about.

Blizzard, first and most important (at least to me), thank you for your service. I have the utmost respect for you and what our military has to do to protect all of us.

My knowledge of your job is probably a little better than the average civilian, due to my background and the fact I am an amateur military historian, but I am still a civilian. I would not presume to second-guess your job, or armchair a military action. I don't have that expertise.

Military ops are quite different than civilian law enforcement ops. It is truly comparing apples and oranges. In the civilian world, both police and fire priorities are "Life over property". Any life, including that of suspects, is more important than any piece of property. That is the reality we live in. The mall would burn down before they would knowingly place responders in extraordinary danger (i.e. fighting fire with a possible IED in the area). That is very possibly different from the objective of a military operation.

Population
Sacramento City - 486,200
Roseville - 115,781

Roseville is not even 1/4 the size of Sac City

2) Crime Stats

Roseville - 2003 (maybe someone can find updated stats?)

Murder: 4
Forcible Rape: 22
Robbery: 68
Aggravated Assault: 172
Burglary: 572
Larceny or Theft: 2,650
Car Theft: 430
Arson: 10


Sac City - 2003

Murder: 43
Forcible Rape: 187
Robbery: 1,630
Aggravated Assault: 1,560
Burglary: 5,606
Larceny or Theft: 15,374
Car Theft: 7,286
Arson: 401

I'm not going to address city size and statistics. There are obvious differences in the two cities, and stats say what you want them to based upon context. That's not the point I'm trying to make.

1) A few annual training exercise PER YEAR does not mean a department is ready to handle that kind of situation. It takes experience and constant training.

I bet if you put an EOD team in there, it would have been taken care of A LOT faster...why is that? because thats all they train for...they did what they could with the experience and knowledge that they had. Was it horrible? NO...could it have had a better outcome if another department with more experience would have taken over? most likely.

The Roseville, Placer, and other local law EOD teams train much more often than "a couple times a year". When I was still there, they trained a minmum 1-2 times a month, sometimes more often, and it was true training, not seminars and reading books. They take their craft seriously. They have to, because they have to know that stuff in addition to their normal jobs. I don't know that the Sacramento teams train that much more. I honestly don't know. Would a military EOD team have handled it differently? Very likely. They have training and expertise that the civilian law enforcement bomb teams don't have.

The robot question was an honest question, NOT a bash...so no, it does NOT make a lie out of my statement...but take it however you want.

Since you are on the inside, lets ALL set our assumptions aside....Your one of the guys with the most legitimate information (No sarcasm, I'm being serious). Why would they need to turn off the water? And why did it take them so long to capture the guy?

My apologies on the robot comment. I took it differently than intended.

To clarify, I am not still actively employed at Roseville. I moved on to a job with the state several years ago, but maintain my local contacts. I do have additional information to clarify why it took so long to capture the suspect, but I haven't heard it come out publicly, and I am not going to be the one to do so. I am not involved in the investigation, so I don't know what is publicly releasable at this time. The decision to turn off the water was a tactical decision, and once again, I'm not going to second-guess it because I wasn't there. Would I have done it? Doubtful, but I don't know what information was available to them at the time.

I actually hope this is the last big post I make on this topic, because as an Admin I don't feel that I should be down in the trenches slinging mud. Unfortunately for you Blizzard, you are the recipient of a build-up of months of watching Roseville, Placer County, and the other small agencies get downtrodden in the forums by people who (based upon their comments) don't really know the facts they are talking about. I have not posted my opinion in the past, because everyone's entitled to their own, and my opinion is not likely to change anyone else's. But this incident has brought out the negativity, and I feel that something should be said.

Once again, you have my thanks and respect for your sacrifice. I would ask that those who are following this post also give the civilian police and fire personnel the respect they deserve for the jobs they do, wherever it is that they do it. Save the attacks, let the investigation run its course, and see what happens. Because I do know, if someone screwed up on that scene, Roseville will not sweep it under the rug. They will air their dirty laundry to avoid any controversy...believe me.

 

[clanusb]

crucialcolin, you are correct, it was too late by the time they tried to start flowing water again. only the 5 anchor stores had their own system, the rest of the mall was fed/supported by fire pumps down by nordstroms. The pumps didn't work because the power was cause off to the building, so that had to be bypassed, along with the time it takes to re-flood the system. (remember, hundreds of sprinkler heads were popped at this point)

Rolncode 3 i agree with you about the SSD remarks. But <b>there was 1 firefighter injured and transported by AMR.</b> he suffered back injuries.

I was there Friday and up close and personal including inside the mall (not as news media obviously).

What i found most interesting was the com problems with all of the outside agencies. As we all know Sac radios dont work on roseville's because of the reband. So all of the sac agencies had to come in and grab a roseville radio. In my group, those of us that grabbed a roseville cache radio, we had no problems. However SRRCS brought their radio trailer with brand new APX-7000's, which didnt work at all at first.... They eventually figured it out, and someone had forgot to check a box in the CPS (when they were rushed programmed the night before) which rendered all those new radios useless. Good thing ROLL call was conducted before our hodgepodge of outside agencies went inside not realizing half of our group didnt have coms.
IMHO all coms reguarding to fire should have been on the White channels.

And just FYI this was a UNIFIED command. those of you who have taken ICS will know that its preferred to have a SINGLE command.

**I am simply passing on the facts that I know, and that I witnessed. I, personally, am not blaming any one person or agency**

 

[WayneH]

Ya guys got it out of your system yet? Can we go back to talking about radio?

 

[RolnCode3]

crucialcolin, you are correct, it was too late by the time they tried to start flowing water again. only the 5 anchor stores had their own system, the rest of the mall was fed/supported by fire pumps down by nordstroms. The pumps didn't work because the power was cause off to the building, so that had to be bypassed, along with the time it takes to re-flood the system. (remember, hundreds of sprinkler heads were popped at this point)

Rolncode 3 i agree with you about the SSD remarks. But <b>there was 1 firefighter injured and transported by AMR.</b> he suffered back injuries.

I was there Friday and up close and personal including inside the mall (not as news media obviously).

What i found most interesting was the com problems with all of the outside agencies. As we all know Sac radios dont work on roseville's because of the reband. So all of the sac agencies had to come in and grab a roseville radio. In my group, those of us that grabbed a roseville cache radio, we had no problems. However SRRCS brought their radio trailer with brand new APX-7000's, which didnt work at all at first.... They eventually figured it out, and someone had forgot to check a box in the CPS (when they were rushed programmed the night before) which rendered all those new radios useless. Good thing ROLL call was conducted before our hodgepodge of outside agencies went inside not realizing half of our group didnt have coms.
IMHO all coms reguarding to fire should have been on the White channels.

And just FYI this was a UNIFIED command. those of you who have taken ICS will know that its preferred to have a SINGLE command.

**I am simply passing on the facts that I know, and that I witnessed. I, personally, am not blaming any one person or agency**

OK, so 1 firefighter with back injuries. Not bad considering there was a structural collapse. Was it caused by a command decision, or something that couldn't have been prevented either way? Hope he/she's alright.

Were agencies checking in at staging (assuming there was one) or the command post? I would hazard to guess the firefighters were much better about checking in. I think cops are much more prone to grab a rifle and start forming search/destroy groups, especially considering all the active shooter training and tactics developed over the past decade (and wasn't there info that the subject might be armed with a handgun?)

Did Folsom's interoperability vehicle show up? Is that the SRRCS vehicle you're referring to (haven't heard anything about a new vehicle for the system). Any pictures?

When SRRCS moved from SmartNet to Zone there were all kinds of issues then as well. It sucks that we keep running into these major snafus with radio upgrades. Have they expedited the reprogramming of radios with Roseville's system, or is it the finger-crossed method?

 

[blizzardx23]

All is well here...Duster, I appreciate your appreciation....and I appreciate the information you gave above. I guess to others, what I said sounded worse then what I meant? My post wasnt intended to sound like I was bashing RPD as individuals...and like avtarsingh said...it wasnt the officers that made the desiciions, it was their higher-ups...just the same as the Fire Fighters...the pictures I got of them getting ready, we started talking, and he himself said they had to sit back and wait, even though the team wanted to get to work (This was AFTER the bomb threat was busted)

Like I said, RPD deserves respect...as does MOST men and women behind the badge....without them, we all would be living in REALLY ****TY enviorments!
Its the LEOs, Fire Fighters, Medical...They all are the ones that protect us every day

I'm just used to a different way of doing things, thats all....maybe not right or wrong, just different.