San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

[rustyhodge]

The old system used an analog VHF frequency and sent a several-digit DTMF string to turn on and turn off the sirens. I used to have that frequency in my scanner in the late 90s and would hear the sequence go off. Very easy to spoof.

According to my notes, on March 27, 2007, the sirens were updated to include a voice saying "This is only a Test" (At least it was the first time I hard heard that in Bernal Heights).

I'm not sure what they used for the control after the DTMF was deprecated, I've read a few places it was sometime in 2014 when they moved to some other digital signaling format but still apparently over VHF.

Sometime between 2008 and 2017 the voice changed. Probably the 2014 upgrade, which also gave the system the ability to be addressable and play different messages.

On Nov 9, 2014, AlertSF sent out a message: "Due to technical issues with the San Francisco Outdoor Public Warning System, outdoor sirens are currently being tested in the City. There is no emergency. AlertSF will provide updates when more information becomes available."

Sometime before the shutdown in 2019 they used the system to announce in specific areas that Sunday Streets was ending for the day.

Then the Dallas siren hack happened, (7-Apr-2017), and quite a bit later SF took their system offline for an upgrade. Which wasn't supposed to take very long. Then COVID delayed it, and now 4 years later we still have no sirens.

PS- Here are some recordings of the sirens in action in their various generations, this one from May 6, 2008 and another siren test recorded July 4, 2017. I'm digging through my archives now to see if I have more older recordings.

 

[rustyhodge]

Heard it has something to do about money…

They should probably turn the sirens back on with the OLD potentially hackable controls while they figure out how to fund the new system.
This whole money thing makes me think someone is getting a kickback.

 

[rustyhodge]

Interesting that 10 years ago, ATI announced P25 integration support and now currently recommends and supports P25 encrypted transmission for control. Here's the 2021 announcement about encrypted P25 support:

When communicating during an emergency, it is necessary to maintain reliable communication lines that are safe and secure. ATI Systems is proud to offer P25 based radio systems for its emergency communication solutions. P25 compliance allows for easy to use and secure digital two-way transmissions in place of standard UHF analogue radio systems. The option to communicate via P25 radio allows users to easily eliminate the costs of maintaining legacy systems and to rest assured that their systems will be able to communicate with the large family of third-party Project 25 or APCO-25 compliant radios and older analog units as well. In the past it was a struggle to maintain interoperability with electronics manufacturers, P 25 compliance bridges the gap between manufacturers and ensure seamless communication programming.

Does anyone know the current model of mobile radios that SF is using? There are about 120 of these sirens, trying to figure out what the cost of upgrading them with new radios would be.

 

[footage]

I think there was/is a P25 encrypted TG on the system dedicated to siren control.

 

[rustyhodge]

I confirmed with ATI that their sirens work with P25 encrypted systems and there are many of these in use across the US. It seems like the longer we wait to implement this, the higher the price goes.

 

[KD6JEK]

EXCLUSIVE: San Francisco finds funding for emergency sirens; could be back as early as next year

Up until now, the funding needed to upgrade the sirens hasn't been available. But Supervisor Aaron Peskin tells the I-Team that San Francisco just came into about $96 million, with more than enough to bring the sirens back online.

abc7news.com

 

[rustyhodge]

Price now up to $5 mil to fix them all. Or over $40k per siren.

 

[rustyhodge]

Slightly off topic, but I often hear these phrases in the dispaches:
Bayview Four Car... Mission One car... what does that mean?

 

[KD6JEK]

Each district is broken up into car sectors. So something in the one-car would be handled by 3C11A unless they’re tied up on something. Then another available unit would have to handle it. Likewise for other stations like the Mission, Northern, or Central…

 

[rustyhodge]

Is the hierarchy District - Station - Car Sector?
Also how does something like 3C11A breakdown? It's a unit number I assume, but is there more than that?

 

[footage]

https://quizlet.com/420219238/sfpd-call-sign-unit-identifiers-flash-cards/

Mission 1 car is has a radio identifier as 3D1, but dispatchers often revert to the pre-1970s style where the station name was used instead of an alpha ID.

 

[rooivalk]

Is the hierarchy District - Station - Car Sector?
Also how does something like 3C11A breakdown? It's a unit number I assume, but is there more than that?

3=Patrol (1=Admin, 2=Training, 4=SOG, 5=Investigations, 6=SFO, there are 7 and 8's, also)
Letter=Station, or investigative unit
Number=patrol car sector...dbl digit (i.e. "11") is a two person patrol car. 30=prisoner transport, 35+=plainclothes, 60's=station traffic enforcement, 66+=park cars, 70+=homeless enforcement, 80's=special details, 90+=squad level deployments or misc. usage depending on station, etc
Letter= shift for patrol: A,B,C=days. D, E=swing/midwatch.
Note, too, that callsigns after the 3 series dont follow any particular pattern, i.e. a "4T9B" is a canine unit from SOG, 9=dog unit, B watch....Also, because SF is down almost 700 Officers, hearing 30,38, 60 callsigns are rare due to staffing, etc.

 

[inigo88]

3=Patrol (1=Admin, 2=Training, 4=SOG, 5=Investigations, 6=SFO, there are 7 and 8's, also)
Letter=Station, or investigative unit
Number=patrol car sector...dbl digit (i.e. "11") is a two person patrol car. 30=prisoner transport, 35+=plainclothes, 60's=station traffic enforcement, 66+=park cars, 70+=homeless enforcement, 80's=special details, 90+=squad level deployments or misc. usage depending on station, etc
Letter= shift for patrol: A,B,C=days. D, E=swing/midwatch.
Note, too, that callsigns after the 3 series dont follow any particular pattern, i.e. a "4T9B" is a canine unit from SOG, 9=dog unit, B watch....Also, because SF is down almost 700 Officers, hearing 30,38, 60 callsigns are rare due to staffing, etc.

Good breakdown. The sergeants are in the double digits too aren't they? In the 60s or 70s? I might be mixing that up with OPD.

Edit: From an old list, low 60s were sergeants, high 60s were lieutenants, and 70s were captains. 40s were also listed as foot beats. It's an old list though, is that all out of date now?

 

[footage]

Aren't sergeants 100s, lieutenants 200s and captains 300s?

 

[inigo88]

Aren't sergeants 100s, lieutenants 200s and captains 300s?

That sounds correct. I was going off of this old list but I believe it is VERY out of date these days:

SFPD Unit IDs

 

[rooivalk]

SGT's=100's
LT's=200's
Capts=300 (Usually 300, as there's only one Capt. per station).
A few other odd ones: 4R=Oracle units and Ballpark units. 9X=Overtime units, 2T=Training unit/Academy, 1V=SFSO, 1C=Coroner/Medical Examiner...

 

[Blueline226]

Hello everyone, I’m new here and admittedly don’t know much about scanners or encryption in regards to radios. I would like to listen to or monitor SFPD radio traffic. I used to listen to their traffic via an app. Is there a way a person could purchase a scanner or radio with the encryption necessary to monitor radio traffic from say Indiana? Thank you for any help!

 

[LoveMoto]

The best way to monitor from out of the area would be somafm.com they have a public service streaming channel. On sfpd now due to encryption the deal that was worked out with the public is only the dispatch communications are in the clear and the officer traffic is encrypted. SFFD communications are all in the clear.

 

[gmclam]

I would like to listen to or monitor SFPD radio traffic. I used to listen to their traffic via an app. Is there a way a person could purchase a scanner or radio with the encryption necessary to monitor radio traffic from say Indiana? Thank you for any help!

You will not be able to monitor these signals from San Francisco in Indiana. You'd have to be authorized to have a radio with encryption capability. Not sure how encryption keys are managed, but they do change. Your only real option, especially from a distance outside the radio signal coverage area is to use an app.

 

[rustyhodge]

The best way to monitor from out of the area would be somafm.com they have a public service streaming channel. On sfpd now due to encryption the deal that was worked out with the public is only the dispatch communications are in the clear and the officer traffic is encrypted. SFFD communications are all in the clear.

SomaFM: SF Police Scanner: San Francisco Public Safety Scanner Feed Commercial-free, Listener-supported Radio is the web link. We use a Bluetainl p25rx for that feed.

Also for a more complicated but more versatile want to monitor, OpenMHz
(That's from the Trunk Recorder people and archives the transmissions as well)

And to be clear, none of these include encrypted traffic.