San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

[neilharvey94044]

With Palo Alto rescinding their encryption, I wonder if SFPD would do the same. I highly doubt it tho since they are already broadcasting dispatch in the clear, but it would be nice.

I just bought an SDS100 and was using it to listen to SFPD and Fire today. There is some SFPD activity, but it doesn't seem like it's anything like the level of dispatch activity in the past. And yes, I understand the patrol is encrypted and only dispatch is in the clear, but it still doesn't seem to be the same level of activity it used to be even if only dispatch. Or today was an extremely easy day for SFPD. Has anyone else noticed if there are changes to the amount of dispatch activity?

 

[footage]

I just bought an SDS100 and was using it to listen to SFPD and Fire today. There is some SFPD activity, but it doesn't seem like it's anything like the level of dispatch activity in the past. And yes, I understand the patrol is encrypted and only dispatch is in the clear, but it still doesn't seem to be the same level of activity it used to be even if only dispatch. Or today was an extremely easy day for SFPD. Has anyone else noticed if there are changes to the amount of dispatch activity?

The volume of dispatches follows certain patterns but varies a good deal. I notice the fire/EMS channels are extremely busy compared to, say, five years ago, but we have so many people in various states of distress and a few of them account for the majority of calls. (See 5 patients cost $4 million in ambulance rides: S.F.’s struggling behavioral health system exposed in hearing)

I wonder if SFPD is holding back from dispatching a lot of calls (priorities B and C) that they formerly dispatched because they either don't have the resources to answer them or because they are understaffed. Opinions, as you might expect, differ. Police response (or the lack of it) is a huge issue in the City right now. See ‘Caught red-handed’: S.F. residents fume after cops let man sawing off catalytic converter walk away and More S.F. residents share stories of police standing idly by as crimes unfold: ‘They didn’t want to be bothered’. No "defunding" in San Francisco: our police budget is up this year, but only 8.1% of reported crimes and only 3.5% of reported property crimes led to arrests in 2021.

Since what we monitor reflects social trends, I wonder whether there's a connection with the current situation in our police department. I know there are people in this forum who may have more direct knowledge than I do.

@neilharvey94044, some of the non-public-safety TGs are pretty interesting monitoring in SF as well.

 

[mmckenna]

Since what we monitor reflects social trends, I wonder whether there's a connection with the current situation in our police department. I know there are people in this forum who may have more direct knowledge than I do.

I don't have any specific knowledge about SF.
I do have specific knowledge about other police departments. They are actively setting up Crisis Response Teams for psychiatric calls. Those get dispatched other ways and you wouldn't necessarily hear them over the radio. Officers may respond with the team, but you may not hear much radio traffic unless things go sideways quickly.

Happy to see some agencies are going in this direction. Expecting police officers, EMT's and fire fighters to be trained psychologists isn't reasonable.

 

[footage]

Excellent point. We hear Crisis Response over the radio but much less information is passed so as to be HIPAA-compliant.

 

[Elpablo]

I have notice a significant decrease in radio traffic for San Diego PD (where I live) over the last few years and have attributed it lower priority calls are now being dispatched via MDTs (in-car computers) and they don't need to go out over the air. Calls like blocked driveways, loud party complaints, stolen car recoveries etc. The urgency isn't there and the officer can just click his responding button to acknowlege the assignment. If they don't, then the dispatcher can go out over the air with the call. I might be wrong but in my business, we instant message and email much more than we use the phone now.

 

[neilharvey94044]

I don't have any specific knowledge about SF.
I do have specific knowledge about other police departments. They are actively setting up Crisis Response Teams for psychiatric calls. Those get dispatched other ways and you wouldn't necessarily hear them over the radio. Officers may respond with the team, but you may not hear much radio traffic unless things go sideways quickly.

Happy to see some agencies are going in this direction. Expecting police officers, EMT's and fire fighters to be trained psychologists isn't reasonable.

I did hear several references/requests for crisis teams from I think Fire during my listening in SF. Sounds like a good thing. The police are IMHO not beneficial for 5150 calls in most cases. In fact, 10-56 calls are often looking for cops to come and do what they are unable to do themselves. I've always thought if I had a mentally challenged child I would want some kind of service that could help in crisis without police involvement - this sounds like it might be finally happening.

 

[mmckenna]

I did hear several references/requests for crisis teams from I think Fire during my listening in SF. Sounds like a good thing. The police are IMHO not beneficial for 5150 calls in most cases. In fact, 10-56 calls are often looking for cops to come and do what they are unable to do themselves. I've always thought if I had a mentally challenged child I would want some kind of service that could help in crisis without police involvement - this sounds like it might be finally happening.

Officers and dispatchers I've talked to are all for it. Expecting a police officer to act as a psychologist on top of all the other stuff they have to do is unreasonable. Often their presence will escalate the issues. Improved access to psychiatric help will help society a lot. It's an issue that isn't going to go away.

As Elpablo said, traffic may be migrating to mobile terminals, as that solves a number of issues.

 

[rooivalk]

Some notes: All calls into the sfpd are listed on the in-car MVT's, but calls cannot be handled by the MVT (as an aside, i think they are the last users of Tiburon CAD; the MVT's are still using ASCII based text the same as the late 70's with the original MDT's) and must be requested via radio. If the unit uses the even numbered channels, the broadcasts are automatically encrypted. Most calls from Officers are requested via the even channels (even though, technically, they are required to use the odd numbered channels to request calls), that's probably why there's a perception of decreased calls.

 

[Hbright]

I have a question about SFPD dispatch reference this morning's incident in Northern Station's area. What's the difference between A5 and A6 (Portables vs Mobiles)? From this thread I understand that all PD radio transmissions are enc but DEM side is clear (hence the trailing lowercase "e" on A5/Portables). But it seems like there was very little traffic even from the dispatcher for this event. The initial dispatcher was male, but the "code 3" emergency backup request was made by a female dispatcher, and Chief Scott acknowledged a female dispatcher. Are the dispatches made on A5 and all operational traffic on A6? Maybe the female dispatcher was on A6 and simulcasted the help call on A5? I'm sure someone on here knows more. Thanks.

 

[KD6JEK]

I have a question about the SFPD dispatch reference to this morning's incident in Northern Station area. What's the difference between A5 and A6 (Portables vs Mobiles)? From this thread, I understand that all PD radio transmissions are enc but the DEM side is clear (hence the trailing lowercase "e" on A5/Portables). But it seems like there was very little traffic even from the dispatcher for this event. The initial dispatcher was male, but the "code 3" emergency backup request was made by a female dispatcher, and Chief Scott acknowledged a female dispatcher. Are the dispatches made on A5 and all operational traffic on A6? Maybe the female dispatcher was on A6 and simulcasted the help call on A5? I'm sure someone on here knows more. Thanks.

A5 Mobile is the radio in the cars and A6 Portable is the handheld radio the officers carry on their belts. Sometimes a single dispatcher will work both channels if they're short-staffed, but usually one will operate A5 and another will handle A6. While A5 is in the clear, you can only hear the Dispatcher and you can't hear anything on A6 since it's fully encrypted. Don't expect to hear much of anything though these days. Ever since they went to this new encrypted digital system, very little is heard these days which is unfortunate for those who enjoy scanning.

 

[LoveMoto]

As a compliment to the other answer, only spend your time on the odd numbered channels A1, 3, 5, 7 etc. and you will only hear the dispatch side: The crime code, the address and depending on the severity of the crime some other info. Field officer replies are encrypted. That said, the fire department is all in the clear and a sometimes the fire department is called, for example if there is an injury, and that can provide additional info.

 

[footage]

I have a question about SFPD dispatch reference this morning's incident in Northern Station's area. What's the difference between A5 and A6 (Portables vs Mobiles)? From this thread I understand that all PD radio transmissions are enc but DEM side is clear (hence the trailing lowercase "e" on A5/Portables). But it seems like there was very little traffic even from the dispatcher for this event. The initial dispatcher was male, but the "code 3" emergency backup request was made by a female dispatcher, and Chief Scott acknowledged a female dispatcher. Are the dispatches made on A5 and all operational traffic on A6? Maybe the female dispatcher was on A6 and simulcasted the help call on A5? I'm sure someone on here knows more. Thanks.

I listened to the traffic on openmhz.com and it seems as if the dispatchers were very careful not to say much. Everyone in the district would know the address was a sensitive location. I suspect most traffic was carried by cellphone.

 

[rooivalk]

Technically, the odd channels are for dispatching only. The even channels are encrypted, and thats where the additional info is broadcast, warrant checks, license plate checks, etc are also done.

 

[KD6JEK]

The Officer’s transmissions are also encrypted on the dispatch or odd channels as well… you will only hear the Dispatcher.

 

[rooivalk]

The Officer’s transmissions are also encrypted on the dispatch or odd channels as well… you will only hear the Dispatcher.

Only if they use their handhelds on the odd channels. The in-car radios, on the odd numbered channels, are in the clear for both sides.

 

[KD6JEK]

I’m talking about listening on a scanner. Of course the cops and dispatchers can hear each other odds or even channels whether it be on their handhelds or mobile in the car… I would certainly hope so!

 

[LoveMoto]

Only if they use their handhelds on the odd channels. The in-car radios, on the odd numbered channels, are in the clear for both sides.

Are you sure about that I have never heard any office transmissions in the clear

 

[ScanRafael]

San Mateo County has special channel for pursuits, and special incidents, those channels work in the whole county and a bit out of it.

What channel is this?

 

[KD6JEK]

The Green Channel

 

[rustyhodge]

Going to drop this here in case it is of interest: The 2008 SFFD Communications manual. http://ufsw.org/pdfs/communications.pdf
The stuff o the radios is probably outdated (well, some of them at least), but the protocols and such is very useful. Plus I love all the stuff about the fire telegraph system.