SDS 200—Quick Keys, I'm overwhelmed

[W2IRT]

I'm new to the SDS 200 and just out of my depth in terms of assigning and using all the various quick-key combinations. I have a pretty good codeplug in for what I want to listen to on a system level; just putting it on scan and it's usable, but the problem is turning things on and off. I have QKs assigned to each of 10 favorite lists, and I can turn those on and off easily. Where I'm lost is trying to turn on or off a department within a system, without having to resort to connecting ProScan and rewriting the codeplug. I also don't understand the difference between Quick Keys and Number tags on systems, sites, departments, and channels.

Is there a video that really explains this with real-world examples and screen captures?

First Example: Local town agencies on the statewide trunking system.
Favorite List QK2
There is one simulcast site in this system to which the local agencies affiliate.
I have assigned two "department" level groups to this system; Dep't QK1 Police/Fire, and Dep't 2: EMS.
I always want the PD/FD stuff in Dep't QK 1 to be active, but I want to be able toggle department 2 on and off.
I would have thought the key sequence to toggle system 2 department 2 would have been 2.2E but that's not it, and I just end up disabling system QK 2 instead.
I would also like to be able to quickly go directly to my town's PD (System QK2, Department QK 1, Channel 1)



Second example: State troopers.
Favorite List QK 4.
There are three simulcast sites (11, 12, 13)
There are three department QKs--patrol near me, which I always want on, is QK1, detectives QK2, and everything, QK3.
I would like to be able to easily toggle sites 12 and 13 (Passaic Co. and Morris Co.) on or off as needed.
I would like to be able to easily toggle department QKs 2 and 3 (Troop B CIB and Troop B (North)) on or off as needed.



Most of the videos I've watched are entry-level "setup" vids, and the one hour-plus video I found on Quick Keys only made things more difficult and didn't provide any concrete examples of how to set this up.

To recap, I have a good logical arrangement of everything I want to listen to, but being able to jump quickly to something I want to stop and hold on and turn on and off departments is eluding me.

 

[werinshades]

It looks like you assigned the System and Favorite List the same. Try 2.2.1 Enter. 2.2.2 Enter etc.

On the second one, try 4.4.11 enter, 4.4.12 Enter etc.

The only step I see your missing is not entering the System Quick Keys in your sequence.

 

[tvengr]

I always want the PD/FD stuff in Dep't QK 1 to be active,

If you give the PD/FD department a quick key of None, it will scan anytime the system is active. You will not be able to turn off that department. Any favorites list, system, department, or site without a quick key is enabled all of the time.

 

[W2IRT]

It looks like you assigned the System and Favorite List the same. Try 2.2.1 Enter. 2.2.2 Enter etc.

On the second one, try 4.4.11 enter, 4.4.12 Enter etc.

The only step I see your missing is not entering the System Quick Keys in your sequence.

OK, this is where I've lost the plot. I thought the first QK was the system QK. I'm coming from the 996 way of doing things, and this is obviously different. Can you please help me understand the full memory hierarchy for the SDS series?

Are there four levels of memory management? Favorite List QK, System QK, Department or Site QK, and Channel QK? What is the difference between the first two? I understand department and site well enough, but how do I access channel QKs, if you said 4.4.11 turns that site on and off? In my 996-way-of-thinking, 4.4.11 would turn off/on System 4, Group 4, Channel 11. I have yet to see a simple explanation of what's different on this series and therein lies the confusion.

If you give the PD/FD department a quick key of None, it will scan anytime the system is active. You will not be able to turn off that department. Any favorites list, system, department, or site without a quick key is enabled all of the time.

This is good to know; thanks!

 

[werinshades]

OK, this is where I've lost the plot. I thought the first QK was the system QK. I'm coming from the 996 way of doing things, and this is obviously different. Can you please help me understand the full memory hierarchy for the SDS series?

Are there four levels of memory management? Favorite List QK, System QK, Department or Site QK, and Channel QK? What is the difference between the first two? I understand department and site well enough, but how do I access channel QKs, if you said 4.4.11 turns that site on and off? In my 996-way-of-thinking, 4.4.11 would turn off/on System 4, Group 4, Channel 11. I have yet to see a simple explanation of what's different on this series and therein lies the confusion.

This is good to know; thanks!

First Quick Key is the Favorite List, 2nd Quick Key is the System, 3rd Quick Key can be Department/or Site. You can assign a Quick Key to a Site if you have more than one Site assigned to a System. In that case as an example, Site-1 can be Quick Key 91, Site-2 can be Quick Key 92. In that scenario, press 4 (Favorite List Quick Key) .4 (Decimal 4/System Quick Key), .91 (Decimal 91-Enter) to turn on/off Site.

In the same above scenario, you programmed Department 1 as Police: press 4 (Favorite List Quick Key), .4 (Decimal 4/System Quick Key), .1 (Decimal 1/Quick Key 1-Enter) to turn Police Department on/off.

As far as the 996 programming goes (which I came from as well prior to x36hp programming structure), they use groups, etc. so wipe that from your mind or you'll go nuts...LOL!

 

[W2IRT]

First Quick Key is the Favorite List, 2nd Quick Key is the System, 3rd Quick Key can be Department/or Site.

In the same above scenario, you programmed Department 1 as Police: press 4 (Favorite List Quick Key), .4 (Decimal 4/System Quick Key), .1 (Decimal 1/Quick Key 1-Enter) to turn Police Department on/off.

As far as the 996 programming goes (which I came from as well prior to x36hp programming structure), they use groups, etc. so wipe that from your mind or you'll go nuts...LOL!

So this leads to the question of what is defined as the "system" for the second QK? In my way of thinking, "system" refers to the statewide public safety trunked system that I use for over 95% of my needs (local departments and staties have migrated to it in the last few years). I'm in reception range of at least 4 simulcast sites on that system. What's left are a handful of legacy conventional FM agencies in two groups (statewide interop U-TAC/V-TAC, etc, and local FD toneouts and fire departments that haven't migrated to the trunking system.

FL0 is for Interop, FL1 is local conventional FD, FL2 is local police/fire on the NJICS trunked system, FL3 is the same trunking system but towns a bit further away but still in my county, FL4 is state PD on regular roads/highways, FL5 is state PD on the Garden State Parkway, FL6 is the state PD on the NJ Turnpike, and I don't even know if the stuff in FL 7, 8, 9 is still accurate; I haven't listened to those agencies for years. FL21 and FL22 are different trunking systems (one for Morris County, NJ, the next county west of me, and one for West Orange, which is four towns east of me). I rarely have cause to listen to either, but I do occasionally.

Am I approaching this whole memory allocation incorrectly? Generally my principal interests are "what's happening in town" and if there's a wreck or a chase on I-80 where the NJSP operates and affiliates to the closest site.

 

[werinshades]

So this leads to the question of what is defined as the "system" for the second QK? In my way of thinking, "system" refers to the statewide public safety trunked system that I use for over 95% of my needs (local departments and staties have migrated to it in the last few years). I'm in reception range of at least 4 simulcast sites on that system. What's left are a handful of legacy conventional FM agencies in two groups (statewide interop U-TAC/V-TAC, etc, and local FD toneouts and fire departments that haven't migrated to the trunking system.

FL0 is for Interop, FL1 is local conventional FD, FL2 is local police/fire on the NJICS trunked system, FL3 is the same trunking system but towns a bit further away but still in my county, FL4 is state PD on regular roads/highways, FL5 is state PD on the Garden State Parkway, FL6 is the state PD on the NJ Turnpike, and I don't even know if the stuff in FL 7, 8, 9 is still accurate; I haven't listened to those agencies for years. FL21 and FL22 are different trunking systems (one for Morris County, NJ, the next county west of me, and one for West Orange, which is four towns east of me). I rarely have cause to listen to either, but I do occasionally.

Am I approaching this whole memory allocation incorrectly? Generally my principal interests are "what's happening in town" and if there's a wreck or a chase on I-80 where the NJSP operates and affiliates to the closest site.

The Statewide system is the Favorite List, if you drill down by pressing the plus sign, that will be your System, the drill down by pressing the plus sign next to the system will be your departments/sites. I'm referring to Sentinel, but I think others are similar.

It goes like this: A Favorite List...for each Favorite List is assigned a System (could have more than 1 System assigned to a Favorite List and can be each assigned it's own Quick Key)...Department/Site (Can be more than one also and each could have it's own Quick Key)...Channels (Talkgroups/Frequencies and have to be grouped to a Department). To access these, a decimal point is required to access.

Yes...the memory is different.

 

[W2IRT]

I think I'm still missing something here. The statewide system needs to be the top level on several favourites lists, though, doesn't it? FL2 for my town and the towns that border it, FL3 for the next ring of towns that border those, FL4 for State Police, etc.

I'm still having trouble parsing what "system" should be in the context of the SDS scanners. To me, it means the statewide trunked radio system. Each FL in my case would have "NJICS" as the system? Or something else???

 

[werinshades]

I think I'm still missing something here. The statewide system needs to be the top level on several favourites lists, though, doesn't it? FL2 for my town and the towns that border it, FL3 for the next ring of towns that border those, FL4 for State Police, etc.

I'm still having trouble parsing what "system" should be in the context of the SDS scanners. To me, it means the statewide trunked radio system. Each FL in my case would have "NJICS" as the system? Or something else???

You can "name" the system anything you'd like. But yes, you're correct about the Favorite Lists positioning. In order to program a site(s), that has to be done at the system level.

 

[W2IRT]

I understand that the sites (and dep'ts) have to be at the system level. That part makes sense, and so does adding TGs below that. But in the context of SDS programming, why are favorites list QKs and system QKs different? In what circumstance would those be different?

Again in my example, if I want to listen to State PD patrol I just hit FQK 4, which turns on everything set up as system 4. Why the extra step of 4.4 rather than just 4? Generally if I want staties it's just 4+Eneter.

 

[werinshades]

I understand that the sites (and dep'ts) have to be at the system level. That part makes sense, and so does adding TGs below that. But in the context of SDS programming, why are favorites list QKs and system QKs different? In what circumstance would those be different?

Again in my example, if I want to listen to State PD patrol I just hit FQK 4, which turns on everything set up as system 4. Why the extra step of 4.4 rather than just 4? Generally if I want staties it's just 4+Eneter.

In your example, yes, QK 4 should turn everything on. What I interpreted as your issue was that you were getting the Nothing to Scan message, and was giving you reasons to.

You don't have any reason to turn off a System unless you have more than one system assigned to a Favorite List, and you want to isolate it. Here's my example for programming my statewide system (Starcom 21, in Illinois)"

Favorite List 11 (Illinois State Police SDS200) QK-11
System (Illinois State Police) QK-1
Site(s) DuPage Simulcast (QK-91)/Cook Simulcast (OK-92)
Department(s)...each Troop has it's own Quick Key (Troop 1/QK-1...Troop 2/QK-2..etc)
Talkgroups according to usage are assigned to each Troop.

In the example given, if I'd like to turn off Troop 2 (11.1.2 Enter). If I'd like to turn off Cook Simulcast (11.1.92 Enter).

If I only wanted 1 Site in the System, no Quick Key need be assigned and could skip that step.

I don't know if this clears the cob webs up or not, but this is how I can best explain it in my world.

 

[W2IRT]

It helps, but why the middle number? 11.1.2? What purpose does having both the first and second places used like this?

Using your example, if you weren't monitoring the ISP trunking system wouldn't that just be a different FL? Or maybe to rephrase it, in what circumstance(s) could you have more than one system in a FL? Would that not make scanning ridiculously complex/slow? For example if you had two physically separate trunking systems (ISP and some independent town--sorry, I don't know the various systems in Chicagoland), coming around to the Cook County patrol TG would take forever.

 

[jtwalker]

You can have 100 systems in a favorites list. If you only chose to have one, that’s fine, but this is why there is a middle number.

 

[ofd8001]

A couple of random thoughts…

If you set up Quick Keys (Favorites, Systems, Department/Site), but do not set their Status to On by checking the box in the ___Quick Keys Status tab (in the Profile for Favorites), you may get the nothing to scan message. That’s because Quick Keys off is essentially the same as avoiding the Favorites List/System/Department.

Bear in mind that toggling Quick Keys is sort of like addressing an envelope for delivery. You need to have a city/state, the street name and then the house number.

FLQK or Favorites List is like the city

SQK or System Quick Key is the street

DQK or Department (site) Quick Key is the house number

Thus to turn on Department Quick Key of D03 in System Quick Key of S02 in Favorites List Quick Key of F01, the sequence would be “01.02.03 eYes”. The periods are important separators so the scanner does get confused. (For a leading number of “0”, that can be eliminated so 01 becomes just 1 or in the example, 1.2.3 eYes).

On the actual programming/scanning part, its “more better” to NOT scan the same System sites in multiple Favorites Lists. Here is why:

If you are scanning FL 1 for police only and they are not transmitting, it will disregard fire who may be talking. Then you go to FL 2 for fire, but they are done talking, it will ignore police who may have since started.

So by scanning the same sites in multiple Favorites Lists, you could be missing transmissions.

The preferred/recommended way is to use Departments. In the above example Police would be DQK 1, Fire would be DQK 2. While this may involve additional button presses to toggle Departments, you will find you are hearing more “stuff”.

Last thought, bear in mind that scanning trunked systems is different than conventional. With conventional, the scanner “listens” to each frequency for activity. With trunked systems, the scanner is looking at the control channel for active transmissions. If it sees one involving a talkgroup in your scan list, it “does its thing”.

 

[werinshades]

It helps, but why the middle number? 11.1.2? What purpose does having both the first and second places used like this?

Using your example, if you weren't monitoring the ISP trunking system wouldn't that just be a different FL? Or maybe to rephrase it, in what circumstance(s) could you have more than one system in a FL? Would that not make scanning ridiculously complex/slow? For example if you had two physically separate trunking systems (ISP and some independent town--sorry, I don't know the various systems in Chicagoland), coming around to the Cook County patrol TG would take forever.

The system (.1) is required to turn on and off any sites/departments. In that example, I only use 1 system, but I do have Favorite Lists with multiple systems, and no it doesn't slow things down, but consolidates them into one Favorite List.

I have a Security Departments Favorite List, which has a mix of OFT DMR, Cap+, analog, that I turn on or off but normally don't listen all at once. 52.1 Enter turns on/off one Hospital, 52.2 turns on/off a Mall, 52.3 turns on/off a hospital.

Your issue, appears to be you're trying to turn on/off departments/sites, and can't be done (that I'm aware of), unless you place a QK at the System level.

To sum this up, in order to perform the task you're trying to do, a QK has to be assigned at the System level. I just tried turning off a Department and eliminated the Quick Key from my System. In the above scenario, I tried to turn off Troop 1 by pressing 11.1 Enter and received the quick beeps that it can't be done. So, there you have it, I knew I had it set up that way for a reason, and now I know why.

 

[nessnet]

This illustrates the heirachy:
(Note: Using ProScan really makes it easy to see what QKs you have set up and how they are structured.

FQK = Favorite List QK
SQK = System Qiuck key
S/DQK = Dept/site QK

In the below example, I can use QKs to select/deselect the individual sites on WSP 700.
..1 and E, ..2 and E, etc, etc toggles them on/off

To toggle systems on/off: .1 and E, .2 and E, etc, etc...

 

[werinshades]

This illustrates the heirachy:
(Note: Using ProScan really makes it easy to see what QKs you have set up and how they are structured.

FQK = Favorite List QK
SQK = System Qiuck key
S/DQK = Dept/site QK

In the below example, I can use QKs to select/deselect the individual sites on WSP 700.I

..1 and E, ..2 and E, etc, etc toggles them on/off

To toggle systems on/off: .1 and E, .2 and E, etc, etc...

View attachment 139664

I don't think this as much as a software comparison as much as it's a "why do they program that way" question. I sure Bob appreciates the shout-out though. The issue the way I understand it the op is unable to turn on and off departments/sites. Even if it's programmed with ProScan, the problem comes in when it wants to be done "on the fly". I think I have the answer, but when it comes to the "why it's done this way", I'm not the one to ask. The guy who could answer is no longer with us, and the other guy who portrays himself as his replacement..well, I'll just stop there.

 

[nessnet]

when it wants to be done "on the fly".

..X and E for dept/sites
.X and E for systems
X and E for favorites.

All doable on the fly...

Note: If scanning, the favorite with the dept/sites and/or systems you want to toggle needs to be the current 'active' (being scanned at the time) one.
I find it easier to use FQKs to toggle off all other favorites when doing it - or you have to time it just right otherwise

 

[werinshades]

..X and E for dept/sites
.X and E for systems
X and E for favorites.

All doable on the fly...

Note: If scanning, the favorite with the dept/sites and/or systems you want to toggle needs to be the current 'active' (being scanned at the time) one.
I find it easier to use FQKs to toggle off all other favorites when doing it - or you have to time it just right otherwise

I understand the process. What I was referring to was the software comparison, which really doesn't matter if the programming structure can't be comprehended. But it boils down to, is you can't turn on/off, Departments/sites unless a Quick Key is assigned at the System level. From the first screen shot, it looked like it was 4, and the second was 2. If only one Department/Site is assigned to a Favorite List, it's all a moot point. That's why I kept saying 4.4.1 Enter / 4.4.2 Enter and so on. I don't want to take this too far off the track here, or the SDS200 will be flying out the window.

 

[W2IRT]

The sticking point for me was not understanding the difference between a Favourite's List QK and System QK. I didn't realize that Favourites Lists are "above" the System in memory hierarchy. I also didn't realize that I could have multiple "systems" active at the same time in one FL. That was very counter-intuitive to me.

A very real case for me is my local community, where every small town has its own police department and fire department. There are still a handful of VHF-HI and UHF conventional channels (FD mostly), plus about 10 talkgroups on one site on the statewide trunking system. Those are the ones I always want to monitor. It seems as if I could put both the conventional channels and trunked TGs into two "systems" in a Favorites List. The downside to that, though, might be it takes so long holding on the control channel I won't catch a call on conventional.

I'm re-working my lists now based on the info here and will post once finished. The next issue is how QKs work with Number Tags, so I can quickly go right to one talkgroup or conventional frequency.