SLERS switchover date, May 2006

[WX4JCW]

Also I have heard there is a memo circulating to everyone on the slers system that if they speak negatively of the system that they could face some negative consequences. i do not know how accurate that is but it would be par for the course.

Here is my problem with systems such as these

#1. Leasing something in my opinion can be a hazardous business move, yes it saves money in the short term but should a stste agency rely on a communications system it does not own?

#2. officer safety, MACOM says the issues that FHP has with the radio's are training issues
call me crazy but in the interest of officer safety shouldnt a public safety radio system be as user friendly as possible, i mean if an officer does a traffic stop on a vehicle and gets shot at, i don't think his first worry should be "how do i work this damn thing!"

#3.Accountability, This is my big problem, the radio system is totally closed, and in my opinion this is bad, not even news media agencies will be offered monitor only radios
so the agencies can do and say what they want without fear of being overheard.
in the post 911 era we have generated the attitude that government can do whatever they want in order to protect us from attack. This is a very very dangerous attitude.

by the time the media wakes up and sees they no longer have the ability to monitor, well it will be too late, they will have to resort to using the info that PIO's give out.

I am not a conspiracy theorist but as a citizen/dispatcher/scanner listener this business scares me.

 

[N4DES]

Those who were involved with the implementation had to sign a non-disclosure letter.
A gentleman, who since passed away, was the supervisor in their radioshop advised me of it when I ased him how it was going last year. Needless to say I never asked him again as I didn't want to get him into trouble, but he wasn't happy with the process. I wonder what they had to hide...Hmmmmm.

If additional issues occur I'm sure the press will catch wind of it one way of the other and like the past report's conclusion...."oh it's just training"....

I don't know about any current letters, but I'm sure a request for public disclosure would bring it to the front line really quickly.

 

[brey1234]

Does anyone know how newspapers/TV/radio stations are going to deal with the "unmonitorable" new Florida system?

 

[n4voxgill]

The Florida Highway Patrol list calls on web at

http://www.fhp.state.fl.us/traffic/

that is all that is available from the state

 

[WX4JCW]

Not Enough i am afraid, no accountability

 

[Mozilla]

Accountability

#3.Accountability, This is my big problem, the radio system is totally closed, and in my opinion this is bad, not even news media agencies will be offered monitor only radios
so the agencies can do and say what they want without fear of being overheard.
in the post 911 era we have generated the attitude that government can do whatever they want in order to protect us from attack. This is a very very dangerous attitude.

by the time the media wakes up and sees they no longer have the ability to monitor, well it will be too late, they will have to resort to using the info that PIO's give out.

I am not a conspiracy theorist but as a citizen/dispatcher/scanner listener this business scares me.

This is probably one of the bigger falsehoods that has developed. To say there is no accountability is pure garbage. What you are upset about is that you can't hear whats happening as it does. That's not the same as accountability. The media and public can request audio, video and other information from those agencies. Yes, I will give you the time delay, on discovering events, but even that can be moot at times. Lets use this example. Trooper pulls over a vehicle and ends up tasering a resisting suspect.
Medics are called, and also a supervisor.
Now you can't hear the FHP traffic, but you can hear the medic call out and also their traffic. You can also hear the tow truck drivers call.
There will be a police report, there will probably be a in-car video, and definitely radio traffic from the stop. So while you didn't get to hear it " as it happens ", if a discrepancy or allegation is made, the stuff that is provided is not any different that would be given without encryption, so how is this being covered up.. also what value are you to an investigator because you heard it ??? As for the media, they can put some of the pieces together without the radio traffic and once again can request the tape. Also how many times do you see on the news, the next morning the 911 calls or radio traffic for major incidents ???, most agencies turn this stuff out quite rapidly to the media. Hell, in many counties you can run later that nite, the daily bookings and get a photo of the guy on the internet. Whats lacking in many media groups is how to get or piece together the info...
rather than just waiting for the fax machine or PIO to give you verything. This is just a limited example but is applied in many areas. Dealing directly with the issue, the biggest inconvinience is not knowing where some accidenst are with FHP. But then again , anything involving a fuel spill, injuries, etc, usually can be monitored thru other means.
Thru out the 20 years I have in this business, I have worked on many investigations into both departments and police officers, and seen attempts at coverups, I have seen some really bad examples to the LEO field. I have also seen some very convincing but false allegations. Its not a perfect world, but its a also a far cry from what most of the " accountability or all is lost crowd."
In fact many of the tools available to the public are provided by that same government, traffic cams, police blotters, etc etc...
That being said, I personally feel that encrypting the FHP stuff and a few of the other groups is a waste, but then again since no manufacturers produce a PROVOICE scanners thats availabe to the GENERAL user , thats not a factor , is it ??

As to the media.. well if they feel that the traffic web sites and other information they are being fed, is not up to par, its up to them to band together and do something about it.
I belive with the right pressure and publicity, they could find themselves getting the basic talkgroups for day to day stuff.

 

[WX4JCW]

I will have to respectfully disagree with that, but i dont feel it is worth getting into a pissing match about. not worth it.

 

[Mozilla]

Accountability

It not a pissing match and thats' fine, but please feel free to post the number of times a scanner listener has actually uncovered police corruption because of what he heard. Show me a valid complaint filed by that type of listener or a media person also based on your theory...

What does uncover corruption in most cases is actual visual evidence or other forms. Look at Rodney King, the radio traffic from that wouldn't give you a clue as to what is happening. Someone with a video camera did. And to remphasis, do you really think the officer in todays world is getting on the radio and even on a tac channel and say " hey George I just stomped a guy for getting stupid with me " No most ... but not all have gotten smarter. They are using their own cell phones, for the obvious reasons, no intercept and no recording. However as in this case, the officer still had is in-car camera on, so it picked up the audio. Look at this articles and tell me how your not being able to hear radio traffic prevented this from coming out.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2006/08/01/c1b_dowdell_0801.html
Its easy to make an arguement, with out backing it up.. and yet individuals keep bringing these broad, non factual arguements up. The media succeded recently in uncovering issues with a Sheriff and his financial and work methods, a City Commissioner and also a County commisioner. No radio traffic involved... but some open meetings and people actually reading the minutes and questioning some contracts..led someone to go hhhmmmm.
Once again..read, I think its a waste, but its not going to change.... I had a case where an officer wanted to proivde information on criminal behavior in his department. He came in and it quickly developed that he was involved and was trying to paint his way out.
He was supposed to come back and provide more info. He was later fired for other issues and tried to go thru a whistleblower defense.. but what sank him was, he claimed he came to see us on a certain day and provided materials we which we supposedly destroyed or suppressed. Unfortunately for him, I had the CAD pulled for his events and it turned out he was writing traffic tickets when he supposedly was at government office on a FEDERAL holiday, providing us with information. OOOPS....
So please... say it sucks not to be able to listen, I agree.. but the argument you have is not a very defensible or realistic one. REAL life experience has proven otherwise.
What scares me more, is when people won't speak up or be concerned ....

 

[WX4JCW]

Ok Point Taken, i think what i should have said was it scares me what will happen when the agencies do go dark, and they know they cannot be monitored, the realization of that bothers me

 

[N4DES]

It's not a big deal and no different than if this agency went to a commercial carrier, i.e. NEXTEL, for it's primary communications. You can't monitor that system either..

 

[Mozilla]

Slers

Plus, I remember the time delay between when some of the BOLOs got put out, while having the scanner on the other agencies meant you had them in a timely manner. There was one the other day that was delayed by 45 minutes for a bank robbery... yeah they where gone !!!

 

[visegrip72]

I like being able to listen to the scanner and know what is going on. Accountablilty is not the issue to me as much as being able to know why there are tons of cops in my area and to be an extra set of eyes and ears in a way. I used to be a volunteer Citizen Observer for PBSO. While in their car, we had a scanner to listen to. At home I have my private scanner. We get the police chopper overhead many times, and I listen to it. A few months back this occured and I heard the description of who they were looking for and saw them walking down the street. Called 911, and long story short, they were busted. Now, they may have eventually found them anyway, but being able to hear what was happening helped, in this case. I also know what type of person they are looking for. did the person just kill a few people and I really need to stay hidden, or is it a missing kid or alzimer patient. So I know the cops are out there and really need to pull the kids in, lock up tight, etc, or not to worry.

Also, I could hear everything that was going on during that search. Once they were apprehended, I heard a call to dispatch for the ID check and that was it. Everything from that point on was either face to face (about 10 cops/detectives) or via cellphones. So no clue what went on for the 2-3 hrs they were on location after getting them. This has happened many times where once the bust is made, no communications other than cell.

I know the bad guys can listen too, and their is the victom/suspect privacy stuff, so this is a tough choice to make.

Not sure if this story helped or did anything for this thread, but thought I'd share it.

 

[mofugger]

"It's not a big deal and no different than if this agency went to a commercial carrier, i.e. NEXTEL, for it's primary communications. You can't monitor that system either.."


you cant monitor what? nextel?

 

[mofugger]

Nextel = 806-869MHz (SMR frequencies - Does not use cellular frequencies)

 

[N4DES]

NEXTEL utilizes iDEN that is a proprietary protocol. You can't monitor it with a conventional or trunking scanner.

 

[mofugger]

really?

 

[N4DES]

Yes...really

 

[ctrabs74]

Coming from the Northeast, and having spent years monitoring the Massachusetts State Police and the New Jersey State Police, I can say that the FHP did not even come in the top 40 of interesting states to monitor.

In fairness, comparing FHP to most Northeastern state police agencies could be considered apples and oranges. Bear in mind that in most northeastern states, the State Police performs the functions of Florida's sheriff's offices as the primary law enforcement agency for an unincorporated area or municipality without its own police department. Which is probably why FHP came off as "boring" by comparison...

Maybe they are encrypted because they don't want the people to know how boring they are.

Perhaps they're too busy working those Bobby Bowden/Urban Meyer/Larry Coker details during FSU/UF/Miami football games (had to cover all the bases on that one; but I really don't care cause I'm a Penn State fan =) ...). Maybe that's why it was such a boring system to listen to...

 

[wwhitby]

It goes beyond accountability of the individual officer or even the department. Besides entertainment, this is why I listen to a scanner in my local area:

Criminal activity - I live in a city of @35,000 people outside of Montgomery, Alabama. I wish I had a dollar for every burglery, robbery, vandalism or other property crime that doesn't make the newspaper. Why should I be concerned? You can't always rely on the local news to report what types of crime are occuring or if more than normal are occuring. In fact, last week a neighbor called in a criminal mischief complaint - that lets us know to be more vigilant around the neighborhood. After listening to the scanner on Halloween, you will know what areas not to be in unless you want bricks thrown at your car.

Severe weather - when the weather gets bad, or tropical storms or hurricanes hit, I make sure my scanner is on. The PD/SO/FD dispatchers will have the local conditions and storm related damage reports much quicker than news media trying to cover a local area. SKYWARN is an alternative, but around here, it covers a 4-5 county area, not specifically my local area. Not to mention, there are more hams that want to throw their call out when SKYWARN nets are active then actually want to help.

Traffic accidents - There are only three ways to get from Montgomery to my house. An accident will tie up one of them, leading to congestion and probably accidents on the other two. Not to mention, accidents in my local town will tie up the roadways. Hearing from the PD/FD/SO dispatchers about accidents will allow me to avoid them. Two years ago I didn't have my scanner with me, was stopped by an accident ahead, and then rear ended by a motorist not paying attention. Maybe if I would have had a scanner, I might have avoided the accident, and not had one of my own.

Community involvment - listening to my scanner gives me a general sense of what is occuring in my town.

An extra set of eyes - On four occasions while listening to my scanner, i've spotted vehicles wanted by the police or state troopers, and called them in. On at least two of those, the troopers or police weren't looking in the area where the vehicle was.

And lastly, entertainment.

If you encrypt a radio system, you lose all of those benefits.

Warren

 

[ElroyJetson]

I guess it's time to start mining data on the new (POS) system now that it's turned up and running in my area. My regular scanner is a ProVoice equipped Jaguar so I should be pretty much good to go as far as equipment is concerned. Just add some more systems...!

I really want to know what the disposition of the Astro system equipment will be. I would
not mind picking up a box full of Astro Saber IIIs for maybe 50 bucks each.