Somerset County TRS Update

Status
Not open for further replies.

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
OK, I've got some more positive news to report regarding the system update. TRS users were notified by county on 6/17 that 7/12 will be the date that county transitions to the new consoles.

To facilitate this migration, there will be talkgroup combining in place for several hours after 2100 that night:


  • Public Safety - Standard usage
  • PD North - Standard usage
  • PD South - All units that use PD Central & PD South
  • FD Region 1 - All users of Fire Regions 1 - 4
  • FD Region 6 - All users of Fire Regions 5 - 6 & Franklin Twp Districts
  • EMS Region 1 - All EMS units
These are the only 6 talkgroups that will be monitored by county until the console conversion is complete. They even mentioned that users in the field might see their radios default to 'site trunking' with the on-screen warning at times during the process.

I'll post more info as I get it. As this will occur in the overnight hours, I doubt many of you regular listeners will be affected by this... :wink:
 

KC2ZHY

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
364
Location
Somerville, NJ
Hey guys!

I was lurking the ULS and came across a pending application for WIL900.

Remember those 4 random 474-476 frequencies? Looks like we can forget about those. This application deletes those adds six new frequencies much closer to the current 500-503 range of frequencies, those being:

503.3250
503.8000
503.9500
504.6750
505.5250
505.5375

All six of these frequencies are narrowband & mixed analog/digital (according to their emission designators), and I believe these will be the first operational frequencies on the new system.

Additionally, the 10 frequencies being utilized by the current TRS are pending modification for emission designator 8K10F1D.

I'm going to start tracking these new six frequencies for P25 activity (as well as the old 4 for thoroughness). We should start seeing that activity frequent itself soon as we draw closer to the planned end date of Phase IIA.

Also, as mentioned by W2SJW, overnight they have been installing and testing the new consoles. Plenty of "1, 2, 3, 4, 5... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" polluting my radio traffic, haha. It was kind of nice hearing Franklin PD for a little while last night though, albeit very short-lived.
 
Last edited:

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
Nice, the addition of 6 channels instead of 4 means that some of the 'high traffic' towns are seriously considering making the move to county dispatch.

I've seen statements that Bridgewater is seriously contemplating a move to county in a Courier-News article a few months ago, and Raritan Borough PD is the next to actually do it (this month or next).
 

robbinsj2

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2003
Messages
856
Location
Bridgewater, NJ
The six frequencies cited above are in a mobiles-only range of the band and the few I spot-checked were licensed for mobiles. From the WIL900 license, the new proposed repeater channels look to be:
500.3250 (repeater side of 503.325)
500.8000 (repeater side of 503.8)
500.9500 (repeater side of 503.95)
501.6750 (repeater side of 504.675)
502.5250 (repeater side of 505.525)
502.5500

502.5375, the repeater side of 505.5375, has been in the system for years already. All the changes are a bit difficult to track since some channels already in the simulcast system are being added to the license for various sites, some wholly new channels are added to certain sites and not others, etc. Some 3-4 new sites have been added to the licenses (and a couple deleted) but at a glance it looks like none have all of the existing and these six new channels. I wonder whether they're still coordinating this data or if it is intentional, that some channels will be carved-out for a fill-in zone.

Some of these are adjacent to existing system channels (500.3375, 502.5125, 502.5375, 502.5625) and this amateur wonders about complications if the existing channels aren't yet narrow-banded. At least none of the new channels are adjacent to an existing control channel slot.

It will be interesting keeping an eye on this and the other license used by the existing system; here are links:
WIL900
WPVM588 (this has a pending application too, but looks like it doesn't do anything different than the changes to the WIL900 license application)

Jim
 

r60

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
845
Someret System Change

During the early morning of 7/14 radio repair was testing and making system changes. Activity was noted on OEM Ops channels.

It sounded to me like the Basics Smart X bridge converter was being installed.

This permits mixed mode operation of analog and P25 using the same TG. This permits gradual transition of subscribers of analog to P25 without having to split the system.

I think I was hearing both digital and analog comms on same TG.

I also note audio levels are no longer the same from certain console positions.

Seems like changes are underway.

Anyone with further?
 

KC2ZHY

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
364
Location
Somerville, NJ
I think I've already noted some mixed-mode audio since the updates. If you listen closely to when county transmits anything, it SOUNDS like P25 audio which is then converted to Analog. I thought it was just me at first, but then I started hearing co-workers talk about the increased clarity of SCC's transmissions, so I couldn't ignore it at that point.
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
Yep, they put the SmartX converters in the same time they did the console upgrades. They have had paging issues the last few days, and yesterday (7/15) it appears they were having major issues with the audio quality/static on PD North 1 (strange, it was coming in loud & clear from the tower I receive the system on - it must have been just from that specific site up there).

My friend who dispatches for county (usually PD North) was also commenting on the static. I also have to agree with the comment that county sounds like they are transmitting P25-to-analog (just heard it now when they were talking to Medic 682).

The UHF paging channel appears to have it's deviation turned up WAY too high - it actually clips out of the receiver passband on my 7000 almost 60% of the time...
 

r60

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
845
my .02

The North Site is at a paltry elevation, if I recall only about 60 feet on the Vollers tower. It appears to me when the uhf band opens, oher co channel overides the cc in that area (from vollers). just a guess. The paging channel is being activated from Suffolk, yesterday was terrible, making a mess of things, the County still needs to disable the receiver on the Paging quantars, this will stop that right away. As to the audio, yes it has been way to hot and needs some attention.
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
I temporarily cured the cut-out problem by removing the RX PL on that channel. I have two people I know that have access to Ruben, and I told them to politely suggest that it be looked at... :lol:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Dunellen, New Jersey
Yep, they put the SmartX converters in the same time they did the console upgrades. They have had paging issues the last few days, and yesterday (7/15) it appears they were having major issues with the audio quality/static on PD North 1 (strange, it was coming in loud & clear from the tower I receive the system on - it must have been just from that specific site up there).

My friend who dispatches for county (usually PD North) was also commenting on the static. I also have to agree with the comment that county sounds like they are transmitting P25-to-analog (just heard it now when they were talking to Medic 682).

The UHF paging channel appears to have it's deviation turned up WAY too high - it actually clips out of the receiver passband on my 7000 almost 60% of the time...
I've been hearing ALOT of random static on the UHF Paging channel over the past two or so weeks. It sounds like somebody talking, but all garbled. Possibly due to the upgrade?
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
No, that's been there since before the upgrade. r60 mentioned above that it's a distant user (Syosset FD out in Nassau County - they have a repeater on that channel).
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Dunellen, New Jersey
No, that's been there since before the upgrade. r60 mentioned above that it's a distant user (Syosset FD out in Nassau County - they have a repeater on that channel).
Yeah, I've noticed that.

Also, with the six new 500Mhz channels, I been hearing random talk going over two of the channels as of five minutes ago.
 
Last edited:

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
You might be hearing co-channel users. The game plan is to have those new allocations come on-line as a separate P25 trunk system on the main site controller. Users will be migrated to that as they prove readiness with their subscriber units, and I assume it will be segregated from the main Type-II system until at least the testing phase it done.

I'm still not used to to the dispatchers being P25 from the console to the site converters (messes with my ears!)...
 

KC2ZHY

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
364
Location
Somerville, NJ
Okay, so I spent some time today browsing the pending applications admin files for the 3 YW sites. In there, all three had similar (two of them appearing to be identical) "Exhibit A" files marked for "Radio Channel Allocation." I've compiled a list of all the frequencies that were requested for use:

471.1625
471.1875
472.3875
472.4125
476.0125
476.0625
500.3250
500.3375
500.6125
500.8000
500.8875
500.9500
501.6750
501.9125
502.5125
502.5250
502.5375
502.5500
502.5625
502.6125
502.6875
502.8375

That would be a total of 22; 12 more than the current system (the new olds are bold and current are italicized). So far, I have not observed any P25/9600 activity on any of them.

Additionally, there was no mention of any integration of the Franklin Township sites, so... I found that interesting.
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
The 470MHz licensees are going to be dropped, and the just the new 6 500MHz ones will be added. The reason I heard about Franklin not going is they have no money in the budget to do the transition. Almost all the FD & EMS radios are 1500-series 'XT' models that cannot support having Type-II trunking & P25 together in the same flashcode (they are only 4 MB radios).

Only the 2500-series & above can be programmed with the Q883 option (3600/9600 Interoperability/Mixed Mode Signalling), and those are only in the hands of the chief's & other line officers...

EDIT - I went back & refreshed my memory from the start of this thread - hmm, it looks like they very well may go with 22 in total, although I doubt they will get all of them. The Morris County system will be 15 at the max when it gets converted - I can't see Somerset's being that much bigger (you're closing in on a Suffolk County-sized TRS at that point!).
 
Last edited:

robbinsj2

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2003
Messages
856
Location
Bridgewater, NJ
476.0125 is the conventional repeater. About 5-7 years ago documents attached to an FCC filing indicated that 476.0625 was to be conventional too, I haven't stayed on top of that to check for more recent information.
 

KC2ZHY

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
364
Location
Somerville, NJ
The 470MHz licensees are going to be dropped, and the just the new 6 500MHz ones will be added. The reason I heard about Franklin not going is they have no money in the budget to do the transition. Almost all the FD & EMS radios are 1500-series 'XT' models that cannot support having Type-II trunking & P25 together in the same flashcode (they are only 4 MB radios).

Only the 2500-series & above can be programmed with the Q883 option (3600/9600 Interoperability/Mixed Mode Signalling), and those are only in the hands of the chief's & other line officers...

EDIT - I went back & refreshed my memory from the start of this thread - hmm, it looks like they very well may go with 22 in total, although I doubt they will get all of them. The Morris County system will be 15 at the max when it gets converted - I can't see Somerset's being that much bigger (you're closing in on a Suffolk County-sized TRS at that point!).
I was thinking 22 frequencies was a bit much at first, too. That and the those six 470 freqs seemed a bit out of place, as most TRS's I've observed tend to keep within 3-5 MHz from lowest to highest freq. But, stranger things have happened! 16 does seems to be enough though... I've infrequently seen the current system max-out on its 10, though it does happen from time to time.

That's unfortunate about Franklin remaining dissociated from the new system... but that's really a personal feeling, since I have a hard time picking up the system once I'm outside the township... seems I get better signal strength from Franklin when I'm in East Brunswick than when I'm home in Somerville. I suppose that's just the topography working against me.
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,210
Location
Northwest NJ
That, and the fact they only decided to put up two transmitting sites (DeMott & the quarry area off Rt. 518).

I was receiving them OK for once today here (Branchburg). Another minor band opening made it up that high for it's MUF today (was even hearing Northampton County, PA for a while).
 

KC2ZHY

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
364
Location
Somerville, NJ
Any idea if they'll simulcast the Franklin TGs on the new system, or are they going to remain dissociated?
 

eastrocks400

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
217
Every time I travel to Somerset the trunked system always seems so quiet, rarely hear any communications. Most of the time all I hear is Hillsborough PD on VHF. Have there been any changes recently?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top