Sticky Thread for MilAir II

[trainman111]

1 more:
1528: NAVY 557 descending down to 5,000. <119.3>


Now to the reason why I posted.

I'm looking at purchasing the Omni Miltenna VHF/UHF Model from DPD Productions. Right now I've got a Diamond D130J and I just don't think it's getting the job done. I'm looking for something more tuned to the aviation bands. Does anyone have any feedback on this antenna? It seems like it would work great but I just wanted to see what everyone else's thoughts about it were.

 

[TinEar]

I'm looking at purchasing the Omni Miltenna VHF/UHF Model from DPD Productions. Right now I've got a Diamond D130J and I just don't think it's getting the job done. I'm looking for something more tuned to the aviation bands. Does anyone have any feedback on this antenna? It seems like it would work great but I just wanted to see what everyone else's thoughts about it were.

Nick, I can't specifically comment on their omni but I recently bought the 225-400 mHz Log Periodic they make. I'm not impressed. In fact, my reception on it is so poor compared to the old standard Diamond Discone, that I'm determined to take it down and see what's wrong. There's got to be something shorting in it - perhaps in the piece of cable that comes with it that leads to the main coax run. I remember suggesting the Diamond to you and am sorry to hear it's not producing for you. If you do get DPD's omni, please let me know how it works for you. My house is already starting to look like a communications site and it won't hurt to add one more up on the roof.
***************************************************

I just got the June edition of Airscoop - the monthly newletter from the 104th Fighter Wing at Barnes. This weekend they're holding a "Farewell to the Hog" bash. The Vice Wing Commander gives the schedule for the rest of the A-10s to depart as follows....

"On the A-10 side of the house, we are slowly drawing down. We currently have 6 jets that have transferred to Ft. Smith and in the upcoming months we will see 2 going in June, 3 going in July, 3 going in August, and the final 3 going in September. Along with the jets there are a lot of equipment transfers that will take place."

They're supposed to be getting F-15s to replace the Hogs and are going through a process of trying to placate the surrounding population that is up in arms against the plan. Too noisy they say. Of course, the base was there first with no population around it. People build their houses next to runways and then complain about the noise.

1630: Just noticed on radar a wild looking thunderstorm to our north - across the PA border in York County at the moment. Willow Grove should get it soon and stop activity in that area.

 

[jmhayes]

I'm determined to take it down and see what's wrong.

You may not be as big of a doof as I am, but I initially built it upside-down. I was proud of my install and sent a picture to Dave who quickly set me straight . . .

FWIW, I get stuff in the warning areas off the coast with the LP that I never got with a discone. And I have an omni that I drag around in my truck for special situations that outperforms the wideband AOR magmount that's normally there running a 780.

/jordan

 

[TinEar]

You may not be as big of a doof as I am, but I initially built it upside-down. I was proud of my install and sent a picture to Dave who quickly set me straight . . .

FWIW, I get stuff in the warning areas off the coast with the LP that I never got with a discone. And I have an omni that I drag around in my truck for special situations that outperforms the wideband AOR magmount that's normally there running a 780.

/jordan

How can you build it upside down? I'm trying to imagine. I understand installing it upside down - or even installing the longer elements where the short ones go - backwards. (Yes, I've got to admit doing that while putting it together while listening to the scanners and logging one night. I had three elements installed before noticing what I was doing. It was redo time.)

 

[trainman111]

Nick, I can't specifically comment on their omni but I recently bought the 225-400 mHz Log Periodic they make. I'm not impressed. In fact, my reception on it is so poor compared to the old standard Diamond Discone, that I'm determined to take it down and see what's wrong. There's got to be something shorting in it - perhaps in the piece of cable that comes with it that leads to the main coax run. I remember suggesting the Diamond to you and am sorry to hear it's not producing for you. If you do get DPD's omni, please let me know how it works for you. My house is already starting to look like a communications site and it won't hurt to add one more up on the roof.
***************************************************

I think there might be something wrong with this discone. It does better than my yagi, but I just haven't been hearing what I usually hear lately. I haven't heard anything lately from Dover CP, Langley, Oceana...you get the picture. There's a chance that it might be the connectors, but I don't think there is anything wrong with them. Maybe I'll keep it and just check the coax. If push comes to shove, I'll put it up in a tree where its hidden and see if rx improves.

 

[jmhayes]

How can you build it upside down?

I guess I mean backwards. Hey, I'm a software guy! :lol:

 

[Mateo]

Thanks Dan. That pretty much confirms those two as Baltimore City helos. That N803CP is also a Eurocopter and always seems to be flying in this area too. I just can't put a firm ID on him yet but feel fairly certain it's a police/med helo from some area department.

The N80xCP series are the Baltimore County fleet. There used to be 5 ex-Army OH-58s, but it appears as though a couple have been sold and replaced with EC120s.

The FOXTROT helos are the Baltimore City machines, N451F, 452F, 453F, and 454F. The callsign is FOXTROT#, where the # is the last digit of the registration. Foxtrot # is also painted in small letters just above the tail rotor housing. Those are EC120s, as well.

Both fleets are based at MTN - the City are in the northernmost hangar on the civil side (the only one visible from the Post Office). The County I think used to be based near the MdSP way down on the southern end, but the last couple of times I've seen them, they've been at midfield, in the big hangar complex just south of the terminal.

 

[Mateo]

NOTE: In another forum, it was mentioned that the Westover ARB MA newsletter says eight WV-ANG C-5s are going to be staging out of there beginning in June. The reason is the construction at Martinsburg.

Are the C-5s currently there? I'm thinking about heading out that way tomorrow, but I'll postpone the trip if the Galaxies have already decamped.

Update: Thanks to Brian below - I saw the post from a few days ago, but with the thing about CEF mentioned today, I didn't know if it still applied.

 

[BM82557]

Are the C-5s currently there? I'm thinking about heading out that way tomorrow, but I'll postpone the trip if the Galaxies have already decamped.

The 167th Airlift Wing has 3 C-5A's at Martinsburg, 70-0452, 70-0459 & 70-0463. See post -
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showpost.php?p=530448&postcount=2229 of 5/24.

They take up the entire ramp and the two new hangers are not finished yet. In addition the extension of 08/26 is not scheduled to be completed until 2008.

Brian

 

[TinEar]

The N80xCP series are the Baltimore County fleet. There used to be 5 ex-Army OH-58s, but it appears as though a couple have been sold and replaced with EC120s.

The FOXTROT helos are the Baltimore City machines, N451F, 452F, 453F, and 454F. The callsign is FOXTROT#, where the # is the last digit of the registration. Foxtrot # is also painted in small letters just above the tail rotor housing. Those are EC120s, as well.

Both fleets are based at MTN - the City are in the northernmost hangar on the civil side (the only one visible from the Post Office). The County I think used to be based near the MdSP way down on the southern end, but the last couple of times I've seen them, they've been at midfield, in the big hangar complex just south of the terminal.

Thanks for the info Matthew. Since I made that post, I found N803CP in a North Dakota helo junk yard....I mean a helos for sale outfit. They do show it belongs to Baltimore County at their website. They must be selling off the entire fleet of OH-58As. They've got a picture of it and it's a nice looking airframe.
N803CP is up now flying over the county....maintaining 1000 feet.

With reference to the Martinsburg C-5s going to Westover, the info apparently didn't give a firm date for them moving other than just "June" that they'll begin operating there. The other five aircraft must be ready to join their fleet once they make the move. I guess Brian will let us know when he drives past the airport and they're no longer there.

 

[TinEar]

Here's a short version log of what's happening this morning: (It certainly saves space)
All are U.S. Air Force (including ANG/AFRC) unless noted as another service.

0924: C-21A, 200th AS, CO-ANG
0925: Navy C-9B, 159116
0926: 108th ARW McGuire KC-135E, 58-0087, ROCCO 62
0927: Navy C-130T, 160051
0931: Navy C-9B, 160048, VR-52

1000: CRAB 52, C-130J, 97-1352, 135th AS MD-ANG
1003: Marine KC-130T, VMGR-452, 165315
1009: KC-135R, 756th ARS, 59-1469, DC 67
1009: KC-135R, 756th ARS, 62-3556, DC 68
1010: KC-135R, 756th ARS, 57-1487, DC 69
1013: C-17A, 06-6163, 60th AMW, REACH 6163
1014: C-17A, 06-6154, 60th AMW, REACH 205T
1020: Army UC-35A, 01-0301, PAT
1020: C-38A, 94-1569, 201st AS DC-ANG, BOXER 418
1024: Marine UC-35D, 166474, MAW-4
1030: Marine UC-35D, 166767, MAW-4
1037: Marine C-9B, 160046, VMR-1

1103: Navy C-9B, 159114, VR-46
1110: Royal Air Force C-130, XV221, ASCOT 4832 (through area flying south)
1125: C-5A, 70-0452, 167th AS (and here goes one of the WV-ANG C-5s)
1137: C-130H, 91-9144, 96th AS AFRC Minneapolis-St. Paul, REACH 1144 (calling ADW on both 378.1 and 372.2 but no joy..began calling 30 minutes out until in the pattern)

1200: U/I fighters on interflight 141.0...probably A-10s from MTN
1201: McGuire tankers on interflight 139.875
1202: DC tankers working in W-107 on 351.2
1202: KC-135E, 58-0087, 108th ARW McGuire, ROCCO 62 (again)
1205: Langley interflight 228.175 active (but doesn't sound like F-22A or F-15 types)
1210: C-130J, 97-1352, 135th AS MD-ANG, CRAB 52 (back in area)
1218: DC 68 tanker with Giant Killer on W-107 VHF...135.725...then tries UHF 338.1
1220: CRAB 52 landing MTN...121.3
1220: Marine KC130T, 165315, VMGR-452 off Andrews
1225: Navy C-9B, 159116, VR-61
1230: Navy C-130T, 165313, VR-62
1230: C-17A, 04-4136, 6th AS McGuire, REACH 358 to ADW
1256: Royal Air Force VC-10, XV102, 101 Squadron, ASCOT 2110
1258: C-17A, 05-5141, 729th AS, EVAC 55141

1301: KC-135R, 59-1469, 756th AS Andrews, DC 67 (back in area)
1320: Marine UC-35D, 166474, MAW-4, Marine 474 (leaving ADW)
1321: C-21A, 200th AS CO-ANG (leaving ADW)
1322: C-5A, 70-0452, 167th AS WV-ANG, DECOY 63 (back in area...didn't lose him yet)
1324: Marine UC-35D, 166767, MAW-4, Marine 767 (Leaving ADW)

That'll be it for now. It's Saturday and other things are calling me.


(First half of 1000 hour CAP Flight 1803 was up looking for an ELT broadcast...found on a grass strip north of Eldersburg...using freq 149.5375 and talking to "Martin Base")
1151: CAP Flight 1801 up and also using 149.5375 - just on patrol around the Bay Bridge

NOTE: Andrews/SAM/Griffin CP having trouble yet again today with the 378.1 freq. No NOTAM has been issued yet advising pilots of the problem. Why?

 

[BM82557]

Activity 06022007

1155 - someone's active on 228.175
1208 - "code 1" on 357.1
1525 - visual on a C5 in the pattern at Martinsburg, no radio!!!!

 

[Mark]

REACH 9711 KC-10 #79-1711 arriving McGuire 2335z CP 319.400,28 pax alpha 2 for #2 gen.
no customs required as from overseas but inbound from Hickham.

NATO 07 still in area with McGuire metro 239.800 asks about weather later
for Pax River and coming rain storm and current weather up over Pennsylvania now.

Mark

 

[ka3jjz]

Nick, I can't specifically comment on their omni but I recently bought the 225-400 mHz Log Periodic they make. I'm not impressed. In fact, my reception on it is so poor compared to the old standard Diamond Discone, that I'm determined to take it down and see what's wrong. There's got to be something shorting in it - perhaps in the piece of cable that comes with it that leads to the main coax run.<snip>

Tin be more specific about the problems you are having with the LP. How have you got it mounted, how high, what were your expectations, and so forth.

For hearing aircraft, a LP would definitely not be on my list. The reason? Most of the beam's sensitivity - referred to as the 'major lobes' is usually in front of the beam, in a roughly cloverleaf shape (a crude approximation would be to hold your hand out horizontally and point outward with 3 fingers, spread slightly). While there are much smaller lobes around the antenna ('minor lobes') at some point (at near vertical and sometimes behind the beam) the sensitivity is greatly reduced, even with DPD's claim of 'more useful lobes'.

A discone is quite different - it's major sensitivity - if you could say it has any, since there's virtually no gain at all - is roughly like an umbrella.

Of course, the most effective accessory with a LP is a rotor - that way you can aim it in the direction to which you want to concentrate the most. Signals to the side of a LP can also be attenuated. There are numerous factors involved in this - height above ground, surrounding objects, if any, frequency, number of reflector elements all play an important role. If I were using a LP, I'd point it at some ground-based targets - not try to hear something flying at 10k feet or more. For example, I would expect a good UHF Yagi (a close cousin to the LP) to work wonders on hearing the low power units for PG county, assuming you get it up nice and high.

If it were me, and I know it ain't, I'd stick with the discone and vertical dipole type arrays and use the LP for other things....73s Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

I think there might be something wrong with this discone. It does better than my yagi, but I just haven't been hearing what I usually hear lately. I haven't heard anything lately from Dover CP, Langley, Oceana...you get the picture. There's a chance that it might be the connectors, but I don't think there is anything wrong with them. Maybe I'll keep it and just check the coax. If push comes to shove, I'll put it up in a tree where its hidden and see if rx improves.

When's the last time you checked that coax? It's a good idea to replace it, and the connectors, every couple of years. You're on the right track with checking it - and if you're using some crummy RG8 type, consider changing to a 9913 or a RG6.

I would think putting it in a tree would not be the best idea. It's debatable whether the foilage might absorb signal (some say that it does at UHF, I've also read articles that poo poo the notion). Getting the discone up in the air, and clear of surrounding objects, are key.

73s Mike

 

[trainman111]

The coax is LMR-400 (50 feet) and I'd say I put it up maybe 4 months ago. It's pretty much brand new, but I just have this strange feeling that there is something wrong with it. Maybe I'll just chop the connectors off, buy some new ones and start over. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the solder BNC connector for LMR-400 but the rubber O-ring inside of the connector is pretty much torn to shreds (which I never noticed before). That's the only thing I could find wrong with the connectors. Like I said, maybe I'll just chop them off and start over. Oh, and about that idea of putting the discone in the open...It's somewhat hard. I live in the forest called Virginia I'd have to put the antenna on a good 100 foot long pole in order to clear the trees around it. (which is against HOA rules anyway)

 

[jmhayes]

REACH 9711 KC-10 #79-1711 arriving McGuire 2335z

Passed by here around 1930Z.

 

[TinEar]

Passed by here around 1930Z.

And through here at 2257Z.

Tin be more specific about the problems you are having with the LP. How have you got it mounted, how high, what were your expectations, and so forth.

Thanks Mike but I've been around all kinds of antennas long enough to recognize a problem when I hear it. My basic expectation is to hear aircraft at longer distances than I can with the discone - which is the only reason for putting an LP in the air. The basic problem is that it's practically deaf. For instance, I listen to Langley fighters and get good reception with the Diamond Discone but can't hear them at all with the LP. Yes, it's on a rotor and, yes, directionality is key. For instance, I'm pointed right at Langley and swing over to the offshore areas they work but hear nada. I've also connected it to a radio with the bank for UHF Command Post freqs activated and the discone to another radio set to the same bank. Diamond good, LP bad. The antenna is cut for 225-400 mHz coverage according to the company. It's on a separate mast from my discone but at the same height. I'm running brand new LMR-400 and checked the coax before putting it up to make sure there were no shorts in it which is why I'm thinking the problem rests with something in the antenna or the short piece of coax they provide with it. I've run many of this type antenna over the years and generally use them for the more distant signals (like Langley) with pretty good results. It's certainly not meant as a general coverage antenna and can only be used against specific signals in known locations because directionality is the hallmark of an LP. By the way, I can't hear aircraft landing with Andrews Tower (the UHF 349.0 freq) either. Generally, I can follow them to the ground with the discone such as I also did yesterday with the TEXAS 91 flight into Dover. Had them on Dover Tower until touchdown - again with the discone but never could hear them with the LP even when they first changed to Dover's Tower freq and still had some altitude. Yes, there's a problem somewhere in the antenna. Little doubt that something is shorted out up there.

 

[nightwatch]

lmr bnc

get some bnc-lmr400 crimp conectors we use them they work great,,and seal the end at the discone dont just tape it,some good weather seal .also try spraying clear paint os the base of the discone we had a icom discone that had water getting into it from the uper part.also pine trees kill uhf so stay away from them.

The coax is LMR-400 (50 feet) and I'd say I put it up maybe 4 months ago. It's pretty much brand new, but I just have this strange feeling that there is something wrong with it. Maybe I'll just chop the connectors off, buy some new ones and start over. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the solder BNC connector for LMR-400 but the rubber O-ring inside of the connector is pretty much torn to shreds (which I never noticed before). That's the only thing I could find wrong with the connectors. Like I said, maybe I'll just chop them off and start over. Oh, and about that idea of putting the discone in the open...It's somewhat hard. I live in the forest called Virginia I'd have to put the antenna on a good 100 foot long pole in order to clear the trees around it. (which is against HOA rules anyway)

 

[TinEar]

1200: Have a U/I flight (probably Willow Grove A-10s) on interflight 143.75 mentions a flight route of Salisbury, Franklin, Raleigh-Durham and then destination. Have the same guy with Philly TRACON 269.25 asking which route the airliners are using up and down the coast.
It's MAD HOG 1 and 2 (and maybe 3)
1200: JOSA 907 (C-21A, 84-0092, 457th AS Andrews) reports airborne at 1554Z...378.1
1201: JOSA 288 (C-21A, 84-0065, 458th AS Scott) arriving Andrews.
1205: MAD HOG 3 with ZDC-Salisbury at 16K...257.7 (heading south obviously)
1209: MAD HOG 3 tells ZDC-Salisbury he's looking for direct Pope when able...257.7
So...flight of three Willow Grove A-10s going to Pope is the bottom line.
1210: REACH 2500 (KC-135R, 62-3500, 126th ARS WI-ANG Milwaukee) giving arrival message to Andrews...141.55
1219: MAD HOG flight handed to Norfolk TRACON (West)...370.925
1222: MAD HOG back to ZDC-Salisbury trying to get confirmation of being cleared direct Pope...257.7
Looks like MAD HOG is in two parts...MAD HOG 3 is way to the south and other MAD HOGs are still with ZDC-Kenton 354.15 at 1230.