Summit County 800 System

[a388sig2]

Hi everyone.

I started getting in to picking up the P25 system back in like June. I've worked on it off and on, and have gone through basically this entire 42 page thread. It seemed like around December, I stopped picking up traffic. I used to get a ton.

I'm only listening to talkgroups for Cuyahoga Falls / Munro Falls (and I think some other townships are on those talkgroups as well) and I'm using a software defined radio dongle and using SDR-Trunk.

Like I said, everything seemed fine up until about halfway through December.

If I'm reading this correctly, it seems like some organisations are leaving the P25 system? Is that correct, or am I just confused?


Is there a short or concise primer for this topic? I feel like I'm missing something because I'm just not looking in the right place.

Thanks!!

--Tony

I experienced much improved traffic when I broke out the control channel frequencies or did site holds.

I noticed the frequencies I had in for the Summit P25 system were giving me site information for the MARCS P25 system, and breaking them out cleared that up.

 

[northernsummit]

Last year I wrote a Software Defined Radio tool to track the migration from Summit 800 to the Summit P25 system. I've also been running an on-going homebrew "state machine" that tracks the existance of every radio on the system. (is it on and affiliated, what TG is it on, did it leave?) giving me a really neat view into the overall system. One thing that I maintain is the last talk group a given radio ID was on before it left the system.

As a result I have a rather useful amount of data that lets you compare radio IDs seen on the MARCs system to where they were when they were last seen on the Summit P25 system. I populated it last night with all of the talk-groups that were in the RRDB as of about 8 or 9pm last night and anything added since then it considers "unknown" and new.

The neat thing is it'll identify every new talk-group that pops up, look to see what radios participate in that talk-group, and then compare their RIDs against where they were last seen and try to give an indication of what agency or department those radios belonged to before the move to MARCS.

Look at the very end of the radio IDs for "Previously On" to get an idea of how it works. Keep in mind it is NOT perfect.

Let me know if it helps anyone in identifying new talk groups: http://northernsummit.org/SummitP25/SumMARCS.php

 

[KWs]

Very nice chart for figuring out the more obscure TGs ,
thanks for your effort

 

[northernsummit]

Very nice chart for figuring out the more obscure TGs ,
thanks for your effort

If it isn't obvious, its continuously watching the system for activity and updating every 30 minutes. Didn't want anyone to think its a one-time static table.

 

[mtindor]

That is really spiffy, NorthernSummit. It's clear you've put a lot of time and work into that. Thanks for sharing!

 

[a388sig2]

No CVNP Summit MARCS P25 activity yet?

Wonder if they're not linked to the TRS, or if it's shutdown related?

 

[northernsummit]

No CVNP Summit MARCS P25 activity yet?

Wonder if they're not linked to the TRS, or if it's shutdown related?

I believe when they're in shutdown the NPS cops are furloughed and Sagamore Hills and Brecksville cover stuff happening down by the ski resorts. Could be wrong but I swear I heard something like that from a Sagamore cop who says they have a horrible time getting back into 432.625 from the valley when there is a shutdown.

 

[relay99]

Not sure why Macedonia & Sagamore aren't now moving to the new system (Marcs IP). All the previous reasons of costs and switching and upgrading are past and this system seems it will be around for quite sometime . Could it be the cost is still the issue to upgrade?
BTW northernsummit.......outstanding effort and a great contributor to the hobby!
Hat's off to ya!

 

[mszabo2000]

Not sure why Macedonia & Sagamore aren't now moving to the new system (Marcs IP). All the previous reasons of costs and switching and upgrading are past and this system seems it will be around for quite sometime . Could it be the cost is still the issue to upgrade?
BTW northernsummit.......outstanding effort and a great contributor to the hobby!
Hat's off to ya!

Couldn't agree with you more. The Summit-MARCS system would be ideal for Macedonia and Sagamore Hills. Time to retire the outdated 420 analog.

 

[northernsummit]

Not sure why Macedonia & Sagamore aren't now moving to the new system (Marcs IP). All the previous reasons of costs and switching and upgrading are past and this system seems it will be around for quite sometime . Could it be the cost is still the issue to upgrade?
BTW northernsummit.......outstanding effort and a great contributor to the hobby!
Hat's off to ya!

I live here. It's absolutely a budget issue. The city just passed another .25% income tax increase in November and one of the items they specifically campaigned on was a need to buy 800mhz radios, as well as dispatch consoles. I think it's inevitable and the ability to roam into MARCS Cuyahoga County probably offers some coverage improvements in the areas where Sagamore Hills is so hilly you can't get back into the 423.95 fire repeater. Thanks relay99.

 

[relay99]

Here in Twinsburg the short lenght of highway that is located in Macedonia but not accessible to Macedonia, the modern safety forces are constantly having to relay stuff back and forth to dispatch to get info to Macedonia and vice versa and it's probably aggravating not to have something like a MAC channel to do that between them. I know communities have mutual aid agreements but if one party has an old rotary dialup phone and everyone else has cell phones how do communicate? If they rely on the old analog stuff I'm wondering if they are able to talk between themselves on the old common shared 155.370 freq. Does anyone even still have that capability or even use those frequencies in this digital world?

 

[Nasby]

If they rely on the old analog stuff I'm wondering if they are able to talk between themselves on the old common shared 155.370 freq. ?

No one uses 155.37 anymore.

 

[northernsummit]

Here in Twinsburg the short lenght of highway that is located in Macedonia but not accessible to Macedonia, the modern safety forces are constantly having to relay stuff back and forth to dispatch to get info to Macedonia and vice versa and it's probably aggravating not to have something like a MAC channel to do that between them. I know communities have mutual aid agreements but if one party has an old rotary dialup phone and everyone else has cell phones how do communicate? If they rely on the old analog stuff I'm wondering if they are able to talk between themselves on the old common shared 155.370 freq. Does anyone even still have that capability or even use those frequencies in this digital world?

Most neighboring agencies kept their analog radios as far as I can tell. I hear Oakwood, SCSO Car #589, and occasionally other departments show up on Macedonia's 423.625. (589 just worked with Macedonia to find an accident and often shows up on the same freq to backup Sagamore Hills PD) I believe I've heard Macedonia Fire go over to Twinsburg Fire on m/a structure fires so they must have something in their trucks. This is all based on anecdotal listening obviously. Northfield Village FD has 800 radios but their PD is still on 423.625 with the rest of the PD agencies. Those 800's apparently work in the Hard Rock but 420mhz doesn't so they tell dispatch they have their phone (or a FD 800 radio). I'm sort of looking forward to them embracing it. Heck it'll sound better too.

 

[relay99]

Sure hope the officials wisely follow thru to phase in the newer radios and consoles soon now that your .25% City Tax passed and a new system being used. Hope Northfield and Sagamore can also find a way to fund the upgrade . The way all parties accomplish communicating now and are used to communicating as you described works OK but a upgrade would sure make life easier for those folks who use those systems daily!
AMEN......

 

[NozeDive]

Is anyone here familiar with SDRTrunk Software Defined Radio?

That's what I'm using to pick up the Ohio MARCS-IP traffic.

I'm, at the moment, only interested in Cuyahoga Falls PD and FD. What I'm actually picking up is the plow trucks, and stuff in Cuyahoga, Portage and Stark counties. (Cuyahoga Falls is in Summit County).

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I currently am monitoring all talk groups for troubleshooting purposes, but when I've got it set to only monitor the C.Falls talk groups, I get nothing.

I feel like I'm making another bonehead move and missing something really obvious. I hate to be that guy, but scanning has changed a lot since the last time i was doing this back in the late 90's when everything was analogue.

If anyone is succeeding in getting Cuyahoga Falls PD and FD, and can point this poor fool (me) in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[northernsummit]

Is anyone here familiar with SDRTrunk Software Defined Radio?

That's what I'm using to pick up the Ohio MARCS-IP traffic.

I'm, at the moment, only interested in Cuyahoga Falls PD and FD. What I'm actually picking up is the plow trucks, and stuff in Cuyahoga, Portage and Stark counties. (Cuyahoga Falls is in Summit County).

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I currently am monitoring all talk groups for troubleshooting purposes, but when I've got it set to only monitor the C.Falls talk groups, I get nothing.

I feel like I'm making another bonehead move and missing something really obvious. I hate to be that guy, but scanning has changed a lot since the last time i was doing this back in the late 90's when everything was analogue.

If anyone is succeeding in getting Cuyahoga Falls PD and FD, and can point this poor fool (me) in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

1. Make sure you're listening to the right control channel for the correct Summit County site: 857.2625a 857.6625a 858.5125c 858.7125a

2. Tell SDR Trunk to listen to these talk-groups:

62644 f4b4 D CF FD ALERT1 Cuyahoga Falls Fire Station 1 Alert Fire Dispatch
62645 f4b5 D CF FD ALERT2 Cuyahoga Falls Fire Station 2 Alert Fire Dispatch
62646 f4b6 D CF FD ALERT3 Cuyahoga Falls Fire Station 3 Alert Fire Dispatch
62647 f4b7 D CF FD ALERT4 Cuyahoga Falls Fire Station 4 Alert Fire Dispatch
62648 f4b8 D CF FD ALERT5 Cuyahoga Falls Fire Station 5 Alert Fire Dispatch
62652 f4bc D CF FD1 Cuyahoga Falls Fire 1 Fire Dispatch
62653 f4bd D CF FG1 Cuyahoga Falls Fireground 1 Fire-Tac

62661 f4c5 D CF PD1 Cuyahoga Falls/Munroe Falls/Boston Heights/Silver Lake Police 1 Law Dispatch
62662 f4c6 D CF PD2 Cuyahoga Falls Police 2 Law Talk

 

[NozeDive]

1. Make sure you're listening to the right control channel for the correct Summit County site: 857.2625a 857.6625a 858.5125c 858.7125a

Okay! Now we are getting somewhere!

I've got those talk groups programmed in (SDR-Trunk seems to prefer hex), but, I think I was trying to tune in the wrong sites! There are two sites less than two miles from me that I was trying to tune in. Once I get back to my desk, I'll try the summit county site instead. (I was under the impression that I could tune in the control channel for the nearest site, and as long as I had the correct talk groups in, I would hear what I was trying to hear. I thought all the traffic was relayed via TCP/IP to each site. I think I've still got a lot to learn about how Ohio MARCS-IP works.)


Thank you northernsummit !

 

[NozeDive]

I'm definitely getting more traffic now! Turns out I may need another computer to do the decoding though. According to the SDR-Trunk website, "OVERFLOW" indicates that there's not enough computing resources available to decode the information.

But this is progress!!

Thanks again to everyone for your help!

 

[northernsummit]

(I was under the impression that I could tune in the control channel for the nearest site, and as long as I had the correct talk groups in, I would hear what I was trying to hear. I thought all the traffic was relayed via TCP/IP to each site. I think I've still got a lot to learn about how Ohio MARCS-IP works.)

In theory what you're saying should work (if the radios were able to affiliate with any of the three sites) but the original "Summit P25" system talk-groups and their respective radios are not roaming over to the original two Summit Sites. This is most likely intentional because the original Summit System has a lot of radios and a lot of radio traffic and the original Summit MARCs sites have limited overall voice channels. The "Summit County" 002 simulcast site was built to cover the entire county so allowing local radios to "roam into" sites 017 or 018 would be unnecessary and potentially cause too much traffic there.

Conversely, I have not seen any other non-Summit agency (like local OSP) roaming "into" the Summit County 002 site which I think is by design. With that said I do see a lot of the northern Summit County agencies showing up on the Cleveland MARCs site. (Like Twinsburg), so it's not that these radios can't leave the Summit 002 site, they apparently just can't use the other two Summit sites.

If you take this unique Summit scenario out of consideration here is how MARCS typically works at a high level: If you're listening to a given site (Say Cleveland) and you put in the talk-group ID for Columbus PD you will never hear Columbus PD under normal circumstances. If a Columbus PD car comes up here to pick up a prisoner and their radio affiliates with the Cleveland site for the duration of that car's visit you would theoretically hear any traffic on that Columbus PD talk-group on a local 700mhz voice channel. This is because when that radio "affiliates" to the site the site would then use that data link you're talking about to bring Columbus PD traffic up to Cleveland. (assuming that talk-group isn't limited to only roam within its Zone, etc.)

But you can't just pick a site and hear any traffic you want.

 

[relay99]

Anyone find Boston Hts or Silverlake since the change over?
Been trying to catch who may be dispatching them or if they have their own TGID.