The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

scannerizer

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Aug 7, 2009
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Bryn-Mawr/Skyway Area
You were flanked in a protest by Antifa because of an IOS app with at least a 90-120 second natural internet delay because your agency is broadcasting tactical operations in the clear? Is this correct?

Please let this ring through to your administration. At the very least, run this up your FOP chain.
  • Encrypt your tactical channels
  • Implement PnP to switch teletype, operational, emergency and car-to-car communications to encrypted tactical channels
  • Train and hold accountable members to ensure this traffic is moved as common practice
  • Implement in-service training to standardize proper riot tactics and ensure all members assigned to the operation are trained
  • Stop blaming Broadcastify for your agency's lack of proper policy and training
:cool:
I definitely love your "Five Commendments."

See, in the olden days, I read that police comms could be heard on AM radio. What does that mean? Well, let's say that you could hold up a bank, hop in your getaway car, and give the cops a tour of the area via high speed chase. So, WHY IS IT AN ISSUE NOW? It was just as easy back then to listen to police as it is now.

They know the solutions, they just don't want to implement them...
 

Ciscokid82

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Jan 27, 2022
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GRANITE FALLS, NC
I can tell you that in the south most of the agencies encrypt because in a lot of these small southern towns the authorities are just as corrupt as the criminals their suppose to protect us from. look at alabama and the amount of encryption used. PROBABLY IN THE TOP TEN OF highly encrypted states in the nation
I can tell you that your absolutely correct. I live in such a county.
 

miltonfaber

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Farmers Branch
In the words of the Bud Light commercial .... HERE WE GO!

Go forth and fight for and against the RadioReference Live Audio Feed platform. Keep it civil, keep it clean. Good luck :roll:
I agree with having a positive attitude as it pertains to agencies that elect to encrypt their radio communications. There are some who post the opinion that it is not productive to "argue" about something (encryption) that you cannot control. I agree with the idiom, but disagree that it cannot be changed through the efforts an individual or a group effort regardless of the efforts expended. If interested parties take a negative approach with subject government agencies it will be the least effective approach to gaining and maintaining access to the subject radio transmissions, although polite pressure may be applied. I recall when most public information was difficult to obtain and was certainly not as easy as downloading the information from the internet. I am aware of an individual that was a pioneer in compelling agencies to provide public information via the internet, was very successful, and made a handsome living while gaining cooperation from the agencies. The data from most government agencies is public information and public property. Unless the current open records laws are changed substantially, at least in Texas, I strongly believe there is a way to compel agencies to unencrypt their radio broadcast or not to start to encrypting the data . There may be some individuals, by themselves, that can reverse local agencies' policy choice to encrypt relevant broadcasts, but I strongly believe that the trend to encrypt can certainly be reversed as a group with a positive outlook. I believe that there is great value delivered to interested parties and the general public which is provided by RadioReference. Those substantially interested in this type of change may wish to come together to form a lobby, make a contribution to the lobby for changes in the law, and/or be willing to pay a subscription fee for basic access, and/or more for the premium access, which would enable RadioReference to allocate resources to lobbying. As I asserted, I believe the trend of the encryption of government radio broadcasts can be reversed with appropriate group and/or individual efforts, with or without a lobby. For those who disagree, I would be very pleased to hear your argumentation that opposes my opinions. For those who wish to accomplish positive change, I would be willing to contribute to such a group effort by way of financial contribution and the allocation of a mindshare of methods, tactics, and concepts.
 

jthorpe

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Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
322
Good luck stopping it. Not going to happen. There is already case law allowing encryption to proceed. (Arkansas for example). Plus you have FOIA and can file a request for recordings at any time.
 

drdeputy

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SW Missouri/Central Iowa
Banishing Broadcastify won't satisfy the push for encryption, it's just an easy target.
I agree, that it would not. The cat is out of the bag. However, it will forever be my firm belief that the proliferation of Broadcastify feeds and their offspring or clones to anyone's cell phone caused the huge push for encryption. Sure there are other things qt play, but if it were still "just us" scanner enthusiasts, I really doubt we would be seeing wave after wave, department after department of it as we see now.
 

slicerwizard

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Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
7,347
Location
Toronto, Ontario
it will forever be my firm belief that the proliferation of Broadcastify feeds and their offspring or clones to anyone's cell phone caused the huge push for encryption.
It definitely did. One local PS system went with ADP despite it being terribly insecure, simply because it "stopped online feeds". Another expedited their move to AES after Broadcastify recorded/rebroadcast a dying officer's last transmissions.
 

drdeputy

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It definitely did. One local PS system went with ADP despite it being terribly insecure, simply because it "stopped online feeds". Another expedited their move to AES after Broadcastify recorded/rebroadcast a dying officer's last transmissions.
Clearly, $alespeople have no motivation except to $ell things and LE is a huge market while we, if we even get a passing thought, are nothing to them. I can see the big players either at conferences or in department presentations playing soundbites like that and other things to make $$$$ by selling (or when selling) updated systems which would either immediately implement AES or be easily (for, guess what, more $$$) converted to AES. Obviously, there is sensitivity to some information, but also obviously, a huge portion of it could be shared as it always was. One of our local departments struck a compromise by having some dispatch and aux channels remain in the clear.

I realize that I'm beating a dead horse, but I haven't had to deal with it much personally. When I'm contemplating moving at least for part of each year to an area that is 100% hidden, it's an open sore to me right now.
 

ROCK

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Iowa City, IA
I just noticed that there are over a half a million of us on this web site! 500K+! Would that be enough to start a campagine to fight police encryption of routine pricinct level comms? If we could some how fund the legal expence to get this issue heard by someone who could resolve it, at least then we can say that an effort was made. Whether it's "yes, cops have a good reason to encrypt", or "no, cops must let the public have a real time ear on their routine comms", it can be said that someone made the effort to settle things. Let's not let this issue die 'cause no one cared enough. Just ranting about it woun't change anything. I for one would give $10 in hopes that all of us would match that. $5 million would give us a chance to see which way this issue and this country's liberties will go.
I agree, I use my Uniden 436 HP at home and when traveling and would like to know where accidents are, car chases and drunk drivers so I and family can get safely off the road..
 

drdispatch

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Feb 17, 2007
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Fightin' River, Michigan
I believe Chicago just pointed out the folly of it all. Got a cell phone? Listen to your heart's content (albeit with a delay). Scanner owners: Go do what the Snake Island guys suggested to the Russians.
 
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drdeputy

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SW Missouri/Central Iowa
I believe Chicago just pointed out the folly of it all. Got a cell phone? Listen to your heart's content (albeit with a delay). Scanner owners: Go do what the Snake Island guys suggested to the Russians.
Uh........this whole thing begs for clarification.
 

mmckenna

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Uh........this whole thing begs for clarification.
This came up over on the APCO discussions. Eventide makes a recorder that will decode audio and stream it. Apparently you can program an audio delay of up to one hour, and it's easy to set up a button for the dispatchers to suspend streaming.

So, might be a good solution for some agencies. Delay can address some of the issues that law enforcement is concerned about. Suspending streaming where necessary is another good option.
Question will be how they'll handle it when protection of PII becomes an issue. Might be that a separate non-streamed records channel might be used.
 

Hooplahpro

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Jeffersonville, IN
Greetings,

Why are Police agencies going to encryption? Let's take a look and some communication history. Yes. I like to type a lot.

A long time ago in a place far far away in time, say the late '70s, two-way radios and scanners were pretty basic. The scanning community had three groups. Scanner enthusiasts, the news media and Amateur radio operators especially in support of ARES, RACES and SkyWarn emergency communications. Criminals could use them as well but there are laws on the books where if a criminal commits a crime and has a scanner that adds more jail time. Over the years laws were also passed where in many municipalities it is a misdemeanor to have an operating scanner in a mobile vehicle. An exception was Amateur radio operators recognized by the US Government as a valuable emergency communications resource proven over many years saving lives. Maybe the news media as well but I didn't check.

There was a time when a live video feed from London to the USA via satellite then broadcast across the nation via three networks (cable didn't exist yet) was just as amazing as landing on the moon in 1969. Still time moved on.

Today technology has merged audio, video and GPS communication with advanced computer farms thanks to a lot of satellites. Anywhere on the globe can be a transmit/receive point with the proper equipment. The military can fly an armed drone in a War Zone 13,000 miles away while sitting in a comfy A/C conditioned bunker in Florida like they were playing a video game. Then the Internet and billions of cell phones came along and changed the game.

What was the first workable prototype of the Internet? Short version in the late '60s ARPANET, or the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network originally funded by the U.S. Department of Defense to send packets of information. Um, Amateur radio figured out packets and the government liked them. Also thank the military for giving the world GPS. Every Police or Fire mobile vehicle uses these packets today.

So today anyone with some basic technical knowledge thanks to Google telling them how to do it can receive any communications by whatever means, send it to a computer and transmit it across the world via the Internet. People with cell phones with less technical knowledge can hear it. With scanners we are probably more local worrying about it.

Then look at the 2020 riots in the USA costing two billion in damages destroying property, lifetime family businesses and hundreds of lives, many major cities defunding the Police, many Police quit or retired early. What would you do if politicians looking for a vote hates you to win an election?

The bottom line. I love scanners and listening to my local government all about "serve and protect" and the difficult job they do. They have the hardest job in the world short of being in a war battlefield because they never bow who the enemy is. These are people who go into harm's way to protect the rest of us and currently they are not being appreciated. So in this 2022 "Woke" environment where a biased news media promotes one political party? If the government where I live wants to encrypt everything then more power to them. If it saves a Police officer's life per so many at the moment trying to kill them then Uniden with the best scanners will have some issues. Meanwhile my Uniden Trunk Tracker-25 HT, base and mobile scanners may not hear them. I'll be OK with it. Will you?

Regards
 

jthorpe

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
322
Greetings,

Why are Police agencies going to encryption? Let's take a look and some communication history. Yes. I like to type a lot.

A long time ago in a place far far away in time, say the late '70s, two-way radios and scanners were pretty basic. The scanning community had three groups. Scanner enthusiasts, the news media and Amateur radio operators especially in support of ARES, RACES and SkyWarn emergency communications. Criminals could use them as well but there are laws on the books where if a criminal commits a crime and has a scanner that adds more jail time. Over the years laws were also passed where in many municipalities it is a misdemeanor to have an operating scanner in a mobile vehicle. An exception was Amateur radio operators recognized by the US Government as a valuable emergency communications resource proven over many years saving lives. Maybe the news media as well but I didn't check.

There was a time when a live video feed from London to the USA via satellite then broadcast across the nation via three networks (cable didn't exist yet) was just as amazing as landing on the moon in 1969. Still time moved on.

Today technology has merged audio, video and GPS communication with advanced computer farms thanks to a lot of satellites. Anywhere on the globe can be a transmit/receive point with the proper equipment. The military can fly an armed drone in a War Zone 13,000 miles away while sitting in a comfy A/C conditioned bunker in Florida like they were playing a video game. Then the Internet and billions of cell phones came along and changed the game.

What was the first workable prototype of the Internet? Short version in the late '60s ARPANET, or the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network originally funded by the U.S. Department of Defense to send packets of information. Um, Amateur radio figured out packets and the government liked them. Also thank the military for giving the world GPS. Every Police or Fire mobile vehicle uses these packets today.

So today anyone with some basic technical knowledge thanks to Google telling them how to do it can receive any communications by whatever means, send it to a computer and transmit it across the world via the Internet. People with cell phones with less technical knowledge can hear it. With scanners we are probably more local worrying about it.

Then look at the 2020 riots in the USA costing two billion in damages destroying property, lifetime family businesses and hundreds of lives, many major cities defunding the Police, many Police quit or retired early. What would you do if politicians looking for a vote hates you to win an election?

The bottom line. I love scanners and listening to my local government all about "serve and protect" and the difficult job they do. They have the hardest job in the world short of being in a war battlefield because they never bow who the enemy is. These are people who go into harm's way to protect the rest of us and currently they are not being appreciated. So in this 2022 "Woke" environment where a biased news media promotes one political party? If the government where I live wants to encrypt everything then more power to them. If it saves a Police officer's life per so many at the moment trying to kill them then Uniden with the best scanners will have some issues. Meanwhile my Uniden Trunk Tracker-25 HT, base and mobile scanners may not hear them. I'll be OK with it. Will you?

Regards
Best post about encryption I’ve read so far. Yes. This…
 

drdispatch

Old-Timer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
1,038
Location
Fightin' River, Michigan
Nonsense. Public safety encryption has been building for what, at least a decade before the George Floyd protests?
At least. My county was the first in the state to go full encryption on all law enforcement talkgroups when we switched to the statewide P25 system. That was in 2006-2007. Several counties followed suit as they switched in subsequent years.
 
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