completely understand, I think its just both sides are passionate pretty much like everything else that goes on. most of my views shape from observing how the issue is handled across the country, and unfortunately it is very politically motivated,
Seems like political motivation is to blame for a lot of issues.
However, while it may be a reality in some locations, it's not the driver everywhere. In California, the requirement to protect PII/CJI info at all times and in all forms has been on the books for a very long time. The requirements were written into the agreements for agencies to access those databases. Most agencies ignored it. State DOJ started reminding agencies that they'd all signed agreements to follow the terms of the contract. With a increase in cyber crime worldwide, it's a good time to start enforcing these requirements.
Remember, it's not something new, it's something that has been on the books for a long time.
And the California standards very closely model the FBI/Federal DOJ standards. Eventually FBI/DOJ is going to do the same thing since all these state CJI databases link into the federal databases.
my experience is also based on meeting relayed to me with a certain Former Chief who is a member of congress and running against rubio in the senate,
Well, you make it sound like you are getting this information third hand. That's can be like playing a game of telephone. Not always a good basis for an argument.
I'm not trying to discount what you are saying, I believe you. What I'm pointing out is that many of the arguments on this subject are based off hearsay, rumor, or generally a misunderstanding on how these radio systems work. There are more than a few of us on this site that do this stuff for a living and have firsthand knowledge of how it all works. We're not trying to gloat, we're trying to provide some real world knowledge for the hobbyists. Hopefully some are willing to accept that real world experience. None of us can force that to happen, however.
when that department threw the switch, she had a meeting in which she demonstrated no real knowledge on the subject,
That is not uncommon. Not uncommon at all.
Important thing to remember is:
A police chief is a police officer that has worked their way up through the ranks. They are first and foremost a police officer. They may very well have HR skills, management skills, maybe even some IT and/or radio skills.
Same with a fire chief. Fire fighter works their way up. Along the way they may learn enough about radio to be fairly knowledgeable.
Rarely does that position make them a subject matter expert on communications. They essentially (sometimes) know enough to manage and direct. They very rarely have the knowledge to actually implement or manage these complex radio systems. On the other hand, some make it all the way up to the top without knowing which end of the radio to talk into and how not to poke their own eye out with the antenna.
Nothing wrong with that. No way they can effectively run a department -AND- be an expert on everything. A good manager/chief/director will rely on their staff to be the SME's. I'd honestly worry about any chief that claimed to be an expert on everything. That's usually a red flag indicating some other issues.
Do some of these chief positions get filled via political means? Absolutely. Not everywhere, but it does happen.
basically telling everyone "the train had left the station" they had promised regular updates on situations via the PIO,
I know some will hate to hear this, but there's times when that has to happen.
Discussions can go on forever, and as you, yourself said, "exploit the opportunity". That can go on forever and no progress ever gets made.
It is important to understand that there are legal requirements for protecting PII/CJI. People can try to tie that up in public discussion forever, but eventually the right thing has to be done. There are often external drivers that not everyone will pay attention to, and a good director/manager/chief will have to draw the line somewhere.
Doesn't mean that discussions cannot happen, it just means that the world needs to keep turning and what needs to be done gets done.
If we left things up to a permanent cycle of ongoing discussions, we'd never get anywhere. There are always those that will exploit the opportunity to discuss things to death and hold up progress for their own enjoyment or needs.
they did offer a live cad screen (redacted which isn't a huge issue if any)
And that's a pretty damn good solution.
I get it, scanner users want to keep their investments.
But, look at it from an agency standpoint:
1. Laws/rules/agreements require protecting CJI/PII. That isn't up for discussion anymore. If someone cannot understand the need for that, then there's really no point in having discussions with them. They just don't get it and no amount of talking will change things.
2. Catering to a small group of hobbyists is expensive, complex and not a good investment of
taxpayer funds. Not -scanner hobbyist- funds, TAXPAYER funds. That's everyone, not just a small subset of the population.
3. CAD feeds serve a larger portion of the population. Doesn't require a scanner. Doesn't require membership in a website. Doesn't require technical knowledge. As of last year, 85% of all Americans 18 or older own a smartphone.
Mobile Fact Sheet That means that 85% of the population could benefit from a CAD feed. That is a much better investment of taxpayer funds. It benefits more people. It also allows agencies to meet the rules/laws/mandates/contracts, etc.
now I worked with these departments on a daily basis, so for me this fight is not so much that im mad I cant listen its more of the smell you can detect under it, and in a lot of places there is a smell.
Your experience. Not everyone's experience.
And while there may be a pungent stink emanating from the nether regions of your local agencies, that doesn't mean it's the same everywhere.
Your statement suggest that the only reason encryption is used is to hide nefarious doings. That ignores the CJI/PII rules that are a documented requirement.
Remember, if all radio traffic is in the clear, the people who do the underhanded sneaky things will just use other secure means of communications. And there's plenty of them. Leaving public safety traffic in the clear isn't going to prevent this.
Same thing where I am now in Summit County, OH - I am not in Akron and I understand exactly why they encrypted that area and it was for good reason, however we get to the point that now Akron PD is under a ton of scrutiny from the community, No one is accusing Akron of being corrupt, but it seems like a lot of you guys lock down harder when any pressure is applied.
I have no idea whats going on it Akron. May be sneaky stuff. May just be doing what everyone else is doing.
FOIA is a great tool, but I think the reason its not pursued is more that even with FOIA information can be redacted and there is no independent review of what information is being redacted, I've done my fair share of pulling tapes in the day.
Remember, scanner listeners are not the one wall between us and them.
Keeping radio traffic in the clear isn't going to prevent bad stuff. More than anything, it's giving people a false sense of security that they are aware of -everything- that is going on.
There are absolutely a lot of things wrong with some public safety agencies, and that needs to be rooted out. Scanners are not the tool that is going to do that.
