TIII Connect Plus LCN LSN

[knightrider3002]

I am at wits end here.

I have discovered a local (less than a mile away) TIII Connect + site Trunked. I have been scanning with DSD+ daily for 3 weeks, on all frequencies and cant find the LCN & LSNs. I have been saving all information, TG, RIDs, DCC. I would be extremely grateful if someone could assist helping find or calculate these. For the life of me, I cant figure this out. Below is info on the seven sites, separated by location and information obtained from DSD+. The frequency ID are as listed per site on the FCC site. I am also scanning with SDRtrunk with (2) SDRs.

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WRPJ456 - HOGANSVILLE, CITY OF - Frequencies Summary

I have renamed the towers modified from FCC for clarity.

There are 3 towers, 3 radius around tower & 1 6.1 meter rules assigned the following frequencies:

Tower 1 - FB2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
856.1375 Freq Id 3
857.5125 Freq Id 2
857.5375 Freq Id 4

Radius around Tower 1 MO output 35W max 50
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
811.0875 Freq Id 2 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
857.5125 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.1375 Freq Id 5
811.1375 Freq Id 6
857.5375 Freq Id 7
812.5375 Freq Id 8

Tower 2 - FX2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
857.5125 Freq Id 2 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data

Radius around Tower 2 MO output 35W max 50
811.0875 Freq Id 2 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
857.5125 Freq Id 3

Tower 3 - FB2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
856.1375 Freq 3
857.5125 Freq 2
857.5375 Freq 4

Radius around tower 3 MO output 35W max 50W
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
811.0875 Freq Id 2
857.5125 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.1375 Freq Id 5
811.1375 Freq Id 6
857.5375 Freq Id 7
812.5375 Freq Id 8

6.1 Meter Rule - FX1
811.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
811.1375 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 2 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
812.5375 Freq Id 4

I can upload all saved data if it would help i have all info received that was scanned. The only channel listed on any scan is "S1". Thanks again for taking time to read this and have a great evening!!

 

[mtindor]

You're mentioning Tier III and CON+ in your notes. Screenshots show standard DMR.

What are you using to monitor this system? If you are sleuthing it out you should try to use only one tool (and I recommend DSDPlus)

Check all of the frequencies -- if it trunked, one of those frequencies will list Cap+, Con+ or TIII at the bottom of the main DSDPlus Event Log window (nothing you've shown reveals that).

There are only four frequencies (the 856 and 857 mhz freqs). So it should only take 1 minute or less to find an actual control channel or sign that it is an actual trunked system by checking each channel.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

The only channel listed on any scan is "S1".

Might be DMR conventional:
S1 = Slot 1 on frequency
S2 = Slot 2

If it were a CON+ or TIII frequency you'd see a "?" here if you don't have the applicable DSDPlus.sites file downloaded for that system

 

[mtindor]

I think there is a good bet that this a simple Conventional DMR Networked system. No trunking.

Two sites have the same four freqs, and the other site has a subset of those same frequencies. And everything shown suggests conventional DMR repeaters.

So I'm highly doubting it is trunking unless the poster can use DSDPlus and park for 30 seconds on each of the four frequencies to see if there is any sign of CON+, CAP+, or TIII at the bottom of the main DSDPlus Event Window.

Of course, since they are using the free version of DSDPlus that is older than the hills, it might not recognize TIII.

I am puzzled by "SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26"

So my recommendation is just to check all four 85x frequencies and see what shows up at hte bottom of the screen. If you aren't finding CAP+ or (CON+ / TIII with a 24/7 control channel easiliy distinguishable since it never unkeys), then I'm thinking conventional networked DMR

 

[GTR8000]

1) Connect Plus is not TIII, it's Motorola's proprietary flavor of DMR
2) Capacity Max is Motorola's TIII flavor of DMR
3) You're running a very old version of DSD+ and really ought to purchase Fast Lane if you care about newer systems like TIII and Capacity Max. The results you see with 1.101 should be considered unreliable at this point, it's nearly a decade old and there have been a ton of updates specific to DMR based systems since

 

[knightrider3002]

You're mentioning Tier III and CON+ in your notes. Screenshots show standard DMR.

What are you using to monitor this system? If you are sleuthing it out you should try to use only one tool (and I recommend DSDPlus)

Check all of the frequencies -- if it trunked, one of those frequencies will list Cap+, Con+ or TIII at the bottom of the main DSDPlus Event Log window (nothing you've shown reveals that).

There are only four frequencies (the 856 and 857 mhz freqs). So it should only take 1 minute or less to find an actual control channel or sign that it is an actual trunked system by checking each channel.

This was shown in messages, see attached. I say its Trunked only by its emission designator on FCC.

Below is from decoding for the traffic channel.

856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
811.0875 Freq Id 2 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789

 

[knightrider3002]

1) Connect Plus is not TIII, it's Motorola's proprietary flavor of DMR
2) Capacity Max is Motorola's TIII flavor of DMR
3) You're running a very old version of DSD+ and really ought to purchase Fast Lane if you care about newer systems like TIII and Capacity Max. The results you see with 1.101 should be considered unreliable at this point, it's nearly a decade old and there have been a ton of updates specific to DMR based systems since

1. Thank you for the correction, i am about 2 months into scanning but extremely good with computers.
2. The logs show Conn + is only reason i assumed Conn +
3. Is it any easier to figure out than DSD+? Is the author still reachable? I will reach out and see if he/she responds.

 

[mtindor]

1. Thank you for the correction, i am about 2 months into scanning but extremely good with computers.
2. The logs show Conn + is only reason i assumed Conn +
3. Is it any easier to figure out than DSD+? Is the author still reachable? I will reach out and see if he/she responds.

811 is an input frequency. Forget about it. The only ones to be concerned about are the output frequencies (856/857 mhz).

If you are going to use SDRTrunk, it's expecting repeater output frequencies anyway.

Mike

 

[knightrider3002]

I am at wits end here.

I have discovered a local (less than a mile away) TIII Connect + site Trunked. I have been scanning with DSD+ daily for 3 weeks, on all frequencies and cant find the LCN & LSNs. I have been saving all information, TG, RIDs, DCC. I would be extremely grateful if someone could assist helping find or calculate these. For the life of me, I cant figure this out. Below is info on the seven sites, separated by location and information obtained from DSD+. The frequency ID are as listed per site on the FCC site. I am also scanning with SDRtrunk with (2) SDRs.

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WRPJ456 - HOGANSVILLE, CITY OF - Frequencies Summary

I have renamed the towers modified from FCC for clarity.

There are 3 towers, 3 radius around tower & 1 6.1 meter rules assigned the following frequencies:

Tower 1 - FB2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
856.1375 Freq Id 3
857.5125 Freq Id 2
857.5375 Freq Id 4

Radius around Tower 1 MO output 35W max 50
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
811.0875 Freq Id 2 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
857.5125 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.1375 Freq Id 5
811.1375 Freq Id 6
857.5375 Freq Id 7
812.5375 Freq Id 8

Tower 2 - FX2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
857.5125 Freq Id 2 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data

Radius around Tower 2 MO output 35W max 50
811.0875 Freq Id 2 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
857.5125 Freq Id 3

Tower 3 - FB2 output 100W max 350
856.0875 Freq 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
856.1375 Freq 3
857.5125 Freq 2
857.5375 Freq 4

Radius around tower 3 MO output 35W max 50W
856.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC tier 3 traffic channel small net:64 Site 26
811.0875 Freq Id 2
857.5125 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 4 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
856.1375 Freq Id 5
811.1375 Freq Id 6
857.5375 Freq Id 7
812.5375 Freq Id 8

6.1 Meter Rule - FX1
811.0875 Freq Id 1 - SLC Motorola CON+ Traffic Channel Network 3789
811.1375 Freq Id 3
812.5125 Freq Id 2 - DSD+ DMR MS DATA ERR3 DCC=8 Rate 1 Data
812.5375 Freq Id 4

I can upload all saved data if it would help i have all info received that was scanned. The only channel listed on any scan is "S1". Thanks again for taking time to read this and have a great evening!!

 

[knightrider3002]

Might be DMR conventional:
S1 = Slot 1 on frequency
S2 = Slot 2

If it were a CON+ or TIII frequency you'd see a "?" here if you don't have the applicable DSDPlus.sites file downloaded for that system
View attachment 178028

here

 

[mtindor]

All 81x frequencies should be avoided / ignored.

The 856 freq you show looks like it's a standard conventional DMR channel, no trunking.

 

[knightrider3002]

Round 3

 

[knightrider3002]

All 81x frequencies should be avoided / ignored.

The 856 freq you show looks like it's a standard conventional DMR channel, no trunking.

@mtindor, Thank you very much for this helpful info. Does no trunking mean that no LCN / LSNs apply?

I spent alot of time understanding P25 P1 since that was in the area. Recently they enabled encryption and this is where i found the local Conn + network away from the county (Troup County Simulcast P25).

Troup County Public Safety P25 Trunking System, Various, Georgia

Troup County Public Safety P25 Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[mtindor]

@mtindor, Thank you very much for this helpful info. Does no trunking mean that no LCN / LSNs apply?

I spent alot of time understanding P25 P1 since that was in the area. Recently they enabled encryption and this is where i found the local Conn + network away from the county (Troup County Simulcast P25).

Troup County Public Safety P25 Trunking System, Various, Georgia

Troup County Public Safety P25 Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

Yes. If there is no trunking, the only relevant things are (a) frequency and (b) color code. Of course, it sounds like you aren't going to be able to monitor anything anyway since it's encrypted.

Focus on 856/857 freqs only. Remove all 81x freqs from SDRTrunk . Add four separate DMR freqs for the 856/857 and monitor those.

 

[mtindor]

1. Thank you for the correction, i am about 2 months into scanning but extremely good with computers.
2. The logs show Conn + is only reason i assumed Conn +
3. Is it any easier to figure out than DSD+? Is the author still reachable? I will reach out and see if he/she responds.

The non-free version of DSDPlus is called Fast Lane. You can paypal $10 to dsdplusfastlane@gmail.com to get it plus one-year of updates. You can paypal $25 to dsdplusfastlane@gmail.com and Fast Lane with lifetime updates. It's worth it to pay one of those and get the latest.

Easier to figure out Fast lane vs the free version? No. But for sleuthing digital signals, it's my personal opinion that it's the best option out there. If you know all the details of signals or sites or trunked systems and just want to listen to them, then SDRTrunk, Unitrunker, and OP25 are great for listening. But if you want/need to sleuth out details for digital signals on VHF/UHF, get DSDPlus Fast Lane.

 

[knightrider3002]

811 is an input frequency. Forget about it. The only ones to be concerned about are the output frequencies (856/857 mhz).

If you are going to use SDRTrunk, it's expecting repeater output frequencies anyway.

Mike

@Milke

Might be DMR conventional:
S1 = Slot 1 on frequency
S2 = Slot 2

If it were a CON+ or TIII frequency you'd see a "?" here if you don't have the applicable DSDPlus.sites file downloaded for that system
View attachment 178028

Yes. If there is no trunking, the only relevant things are (a) frequency and (b) color code. Of course, it sounds like you aren't going to be able to monitor anything anyway since it's encrypted.

Focus on 856/857 freqs only. Remove all 81x freqs from SDRTrunk . Add four separate DMR freqs for the 856/857 and monitor those.

I noticed the encryption but other have said dont trust all messages until the system is not showing errors. I an perfectly fine dialing it in, then if it is encrypted, abandon project.

 

[mtindor]

@Milke



I noticed the encryption but other have said dont trust all messages until the system is not showing errors. I an perfectly fine dialing it in, then if it is encrypted, abandon project.

I don't know where that TG 400 came from in the one screenshot - it wasn't encrypted. But 5036 was encrypted in every screenshot . And I trust that much. TG 5036 is encrypted. Probably police or something.

 

[knightrider3002]

I don't know where that TG 400 came from in the one screenshot - it wasn't encrypted. But 5036 was encrypted in every screenshot . And I trust that much. TG 5036 is encrypted. Probably police or something.

It is the local PD and if i get all calls are encrypted once fully operational, i will abandon. No one here is wanting to do federal Wire Tap time, including me. Is it possible that they only encrypt things that need to be, but not normal dispatch? That is how the P25 PH1 works for Troup Simulcast as of today. Troup E911 is not encrypted and all mobile units are. I am wanting to monitor local dispatch Hogansville not Troup.

 

[mtindor]

I guess it's possible, but every 5036 transmission in those screenshots was encrypted. If that is Hogansville PD Dispatch, it's likely fully encrypted. but, like I said, put all four 856/857 freqs in SDRTrunk and have them all playing. See what you hear or don't hear. See what talkgroups show up. Add them as simple DMR freqs.

 

[knightrider3002]

I guess it's possible, but every 5036 transmission in those screenshots was encrypted. If that is Hogansville PD Dispatch, it's likely fully encrypted. but, like I said, put all four 856/857 freqs in SDRTrunk and have them all playing. See what you hear or don't hear. See what talkgroups show up. Add them as simple DMR freqs.

I have LCN's assigned to each frequency, which i now understand that is incorrect. I hear the key up and about 1/2 second of voice, where i assume it is moving to a different freq & TS. I would assume if encryption was enabled it would be enabled at keyup before voice is transmitted.

I never give up on challenges like trying to get this working, but like i said if its encrypted, its done. I know pretty much everyone in here has alot more experience than me and please let me know your thoughts, abandon or keep trying until i see fully encrypted?

I trust that there is at least 50+ years of combined experience in here that i lack. If I find its fully encrypted i can submit to RR to update DB.