Unitrunker CT Column

[blah546]

Today for the first I saw 'Emg' and 'Tst' (I think that's what they were) in the CT column. Emg was for a talkgroup (one I've never seen before) and Tst was for an I-Call (again, LIDs I've never seen before). I would assume Emg is emergency but it flashes pretty quick and my BearCat isn't beeping as it does when it receives an emergency. Are these just a fluke or do they really mean something? EDACS system.

 

[SCPD]

Tst is the LCN tester.
Emg is an emergency analog call.

 

[shajoe44]

what does XP mean in that column?

 

[Comint]

what does XP mean in that column?

Cross Patch

And when monitoring an MPT1327 system, VOC means Voice transmission, and DAT means Data transmission on the Traffic channels.

Comint

 

[Audiodave1]

my.02
On a Moto3600 baud APCO25 system "Dig" means an encrypted transmission.

Dave

 

[blah546]

How about EmD?

 

[morfis]

How about EmD?

Emergency Digital (ie. Provoice)

 

[grant]

I trying to figure out this particular 800 Mhz system (id 0832 AAP Building Sydney Central Business District) which is a Type IIi Hybrid.

In the CT column I am seeing against certain talkgroups/fleetmaps the following

DXP = ?
ALL = ?
MS = multi-select patch (except nothing in shown under Patches)
Em = ?
EMS = ?
DAT = ?
DEX = ?

I couldn't find anything that defined the CT information.


Grant

 

[SCPD]

In the CT column I am seeing against certain talkgroups/fleetmaps the following

Yuck. Make sure you don't have a Type I bank marked as Type II.
-rick

 

[grant]

0832 Aap Building

That is my current project .... trying to work what block is what type on 0832. Block 6 is definitely Type 2, Block 7 is Type 1.

Actually all the Motorola 800Mhz sites in Sydney have the same Type IIi hybrid comment when I use to run Trunker 3.8.3.

It would be nice to come across some software that analyses these type IIi hybrid systems quickly.


Grant

 

[SCPD]

There may be way to infer the size code but it's tricky and requires a sufficient amount of call volume distributed across radio ids inside the same block.

Try this ... turn on logging ... let it run for a day.

Open the log in Notepad or any text editor. Look for concurrent voice calls inside the same ID block. Suppose you find ID 0113 and ID 0135 talking on different channels at the same time. That implies a group boundary somewhere between the two. The boundary will be a multiple of a power of two. In this case 16 and 32 are candidates ... which means most of the larger size codes can be eliminated.

The other side to this is verifying that two IDs belong to the same group. The only way I know to do that is to listen ... does it sound like ID2 is answering back to ID1?

Yeah ... it's a pain. But there's only 8 blocks.

 

[bonus1331]

When in the main screen when looking at TG's pop up; under the "T" column-should I assume that G stands for Group and I is for private calls?
If so, I would assume that the Uniden scanners use a proprietary numbering system (i.e. 700343), because the private calls seem to be 4 digits that I cannot enter into the 396.
Assumption correct?

 

[SCPD]

I would assume that the Uniden scanners use a proprietary numbering system (i.e. 700343), because the private calls seem to be 4 digits that I cannot enter into the 396.

The '396 is being inconsistent in how it displays IDs. Motorola format uses 8XXXXX for group ids and 7XXXXX for radio ids. Put UniTrunker in Motorola format (under [O]ptions menu) and your radio ids will match (but your group ids won't).

Here's an easier way ... run the program in decimal mode. The Motorola radio id is the just the decimal ID plus 700000. ID 123 becomes 700123, ID 1234 becomes 701234 and so on. Add a leading digit seven and as many zeroes to fill the ID # out to six diigts when entering the ID into the radio.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Regarding sizecodes in IIi systems - Trunker can figure out the sizecode, but only if it encounters certain information in the datastream. If a subfleet patch ever occurs, Trunker will then provide the correct sizecode.

 

[grant]

Type IIi hybrids - Sys Id 0832

Pardon my ignorance in these matters.

I was just running a second 780 on this site .... the first 780 has the discriminator tap (expertly done by Matt`SR). The second scanner is set up to track Type II 800Mhz. (It has had a longterm display problem which I just got fixed and received back). Consequently where Unitrunker is showing a type I fleetmap id, the responding view on the 2nd 780 is say to show talkgroups in blocks of 16 eg 29248, 29264, 29280, depending on the radio id. Can i use this talkgroup information to work out size blocks.

On a different tack, I am trying nut out the band plan so that Unitrunker will track the frequencies correctly. I recall one of the local experts saying that the Aussie 800Mhz base frequency is 860.5125Mhz or thereabouts. Yet on the Unitrunker program, the base is shown with the default US setting (851Mhz). Consequently the display for the 869Mhz comes up as 866Mhz frequencies and slightly off eg 869.3375 comes as 866.325Mhz.

Grant

PS The GSM mobile Cellular band starts at 870Mhz in Australia.

 

[Comint]

It is my understanding that there were never any Type I systems installed in Australia, so it seems strange that anyone would go to the trouble of installing Type IIi Hybrid systems.

 

[grant]

Type IIi Hybrid systems

I was told a similar thing by others who opinion I respect.

However the facts of the matter is that each time I run trunker or unitrunker the same hybrid comment comes up, and it is the same with the talkgroups and radios - many of them don't fall into neat little blocks (as I am led to believe) like they should if it was it was plain Type II.


SOME 0832 GROUPS
656,0,0,0x000000,"",20070126031040,20070201045240,50,50,""
672,0,0,0x000000,"",20070201015551,20070201045246,50,4,""
688,0,0,0x000000,"",20070126034629,20070201030418,50,28,""
1360,0,0,0x80FFFF,"Bus Company",20070115055849,20070205002622,50,24,""
1369,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115060042,20070205022414,50,5,""
1370,0,0,0x000000,"",20070205020606,20070205020606,50,1,""
1808,0,0,0x80FFFF,"Bus Company",20070115055704,20070205022626,50,216,""
1811,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115060956,20070205022535,50,27,""
1813,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115061104,20070205022218,50,21,""
1814,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131051032,20070205022619,50,6,""
1815,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115055639,20070201015621,50,34,""
1818,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131035701,20070201013145,50,4,""
1819,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131042225,20070205022514,50,20,""
1823,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131043451,20070204213023,50,6,""
2064,0,0,0x000000,"",20070201020526,20070201024225,50,13,""
2068,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131050429,20070204231201,50,23,""
2071,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131050411,20070205021706,50,5,""
2079,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131055827,20070201030237,50,3,""
2768,0,0,0x000000,"",20070201020457,20070201050356,50,50,""
2770,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131050318,20070205024604,50,13,""
2771,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131041713,20070205001525,50,14,""
2772,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131041316,20070204230007,50,9,""
2774,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131041320,20070205022439,50,59,""
2775,0,0,0x000000,"",20070204212608,20070205022428,50,11,""
2960,0,0,0xFFFFFF,"Sonic Express Courier",20070131035320,20070205025005,50,753,""
2961,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131035459,20070205024431,50,56,""
2962,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115055645,20070205025016,50,413,""
2966,0,0,0x000000,"",20070201015255,20070205024803,50,11,""
2967,0,0,0x000000,"",20070115055658,20070205022938,50,69,""
2968,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131035748,20070205022706,50,28,""
2970,0,0,0x000000,"",20070204200425,20070204200425,50,1,""
2972,0,0,0x000000,"",20070201013117,20070205012121,50,4,""
2973,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131040031,20070205023126,50,10,""
2975,0,0,0x000000,"",20070131040133,20070205023433,50,34,""
3184,0,0,0xFFFFFF,"Dynamic Towing",20070111121120,20070205024743,50,585,""


The RIDS seem better behaved, with most appearing under type II talkgroup blocks.


Grant

 

[SCPD]

Hi Grant;

On a type II system - the start of every call is announced by a message called a channel grant - it contains a target ID (may be a group or radio), transmitting party's radio ID, and channel number when the call takes place.

On a type I system - the radio ID and channel number are sent. The group ID is inferred from the radio ID because they have a numerical relationship. That relationship is set by the system administrator.

After a call is underway on a type II system, it switches to a late entry message that is identical to the Type I message just described. This late entry message is also called a continuation.

Under poor signal conditions, the grant message (which is longer and more vulnerable to bit errors) is lost. An absence of grant messages suggests a Type I system.

I can't tell what's happening here. This is the first I'd heard of anything resembling Type I or hybrid behavior in Australia. If you send a day's log along with the data files, I'll take a look. I'm curious to learn what is happening on this system.

-rick

 

[grant]

RF Mobile ... I just sent a brief log to you on the private message
Even to my untrained eye the logs seems to suggest that 0832 has an older sys id

1FF2 G 2A8 Old Sysid 1FF2


Grant