Wake County P25 switch

K4XOR

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If you are wanting an RTL-SDR for the Wake system, you will need to get two of them because they only cover a 2.4 mhz frequency range. The Wake county frequency range is 4.425 mhz.

Adding some details for others who may be interested: The above is a good thing to keep in mind! And I was a little worried things wouldn't work at first..

However, I've found that unless you want to receive 100% of transmissions, even when they are concurrently transmitting at near opposite ends of the system frequency range, a single SDR will still yield great success! My RTL-SDR V3 is stable at 2.8M sample rate (a bit more than the 2.4M I see most places), so if we assume we are centered at control channel 853.925MHz, the tuner window is around:

853.925-(2.8/2) ~ 853.925+(2.8/2) -> 852.525MHz ~ 855.325MHz

In practice, here is a range of voice channels my receiver is hearing:
1675964028720.png
The system's range appears to be roughly:

855.4625−851.15 -> 4.3125MHz

This is larger than the approximate 2.8MHz bandwidth available from the tuner. But the op25 software seems to shift the tuner window to listen to voice channels, while trying to keep the control channel inside the window. I have noticed that while listening to a transmission on 851.15MHz, a higher-priority talkgroup starting at a much higher frequency successfully preempts the current transmission. It must be still receiving control data, despite listening to the low end frequency!

How is it doing this? If we're listening to 851.15MHz, the lowest observed system frequency, we don't need to center on that frequency. It just has to be inside the tuner window. Perhaps the software shifts the range down to roughly:

851.15 ~ 851.15+2.8 -> 851.15MHz ~ 853.95MHz

If my research is correct, P25 Phase 1 channels are 12.5kHz bandwidth. So it appears the 853.925MHz control frequency is still inside the above window. We're not missing control data, even though we're listening to a voice channel at the low end of the system range! We certainly could be missing transmissions on a different talkgroup, happening at the opposite (high) end of the system. But for my purposes, that is totally fine. I'm really only interested in ensuring it can hear the control channel at nearly all times, so my talkgroups of interest can be heard. I have also whitelisted my talkgroups and applied priorities, so there is less chance of missing what I want to hear.

Of course all of this is subject to change, depending on which control frequency happens to be active: If the control channel was 853.9625MHz instead of 853.925MHz, we would be missing control data while listening to the lowest frequency 851.15MHz. The only thing left to help is that op25 makes use of trunking data transmitted inside the voice channels. I imagine that's not perfect, so perhaps I will add a second SDR to use multi_rx.py in the future.

Anyways, I'm still quite new to all of this, so I welcome any corrections. It's so nice to hear crystal clear Raleigh chatter again! :p
 

OnYourSix

NY --> NC
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Raleigh, NC
@K4XOR I have no idea what most of this means, but I'm interested in setting something similar up, eventually. I'm running an SDS200 to monitor Wake Co Fire OPS and TAC channels, and a 536 for my local PD. It would be nice to learn how to get involved with an SDR; maybe more towards the end of the year. Please continue to share your findings.


Adding some details for others who may be interested: The above is a good thing to keep in mind! And I was a little worried things wouldn't work at first..

However, I've found that unless you want to receive 100% of transmissions, even when they are concurrently transmitting at near opposite ends of the system frequency range, a single SDR will still yield great success! My RTL-SDR V3 is stable at 2.8M sample rate (a bit more than the 2.4M I see most places), so if we assume we are centered at control channel 853.925MHz, the tuner window is around:

853.925-(2.8/2) ~ 853.925+(2.8/2) -> 852.525MHz ~ 855.325MHz

In practice, here is a range of voice channels my receiver is hearing:
View attachment 136094
The system's range appears to be roughly:

855.4625−851.15 -> 4.3125MHz

This is larger than the approximate 2.8MHz bandwidth available from the tuner. But the op25 software seems to shift the tuner window to listen to voice channels, while trying to keep the control channel inside the window. I have noticed that while listening to a transmission on 851.15MHz, a higher-priority talkgroup starting at a much higher frequency successfully preempts the current transmission. It must be still receiving control data, despite listening to the low end frequency!

How is it doing this? If we're listening to 851.15MHz, the lowest observed system frequency, we don't need to center on that frequency. It just has to be inside the tuner window. Perhaps the software shifts the range down to roughly:

851.15 ~ 851.15+2.8 -> 851.15MHz ~ 853.95MHz

If my research is correct, P25 Phase 1 channels are 12.5kHz bandwidth. So it appears the 853.925MHz control frequency is still inside the above window. We're not missing control data, even though we're listening to a voice channel at the low end of the system range! We certainly could be missing transmissions on a different talkgroup, happening at the opposite (high) end of the system. But for my purposes, that is totally fine. I'm really only interested in ensuring it can hear the control channel at nearly all times, so my talkgroups of interest can be heard. I have also whitelisted my talkgroups and applied priorities, so there is less chance of missing what I want to hear.

Of course all of this is subject to change, depending on which control frequency happens to be active: If the control channel was 853.9625MHz instead of 853.925MHz, we would be missing control data while listening to the lowest frequency 851.15MHz. The only thing left to help is that op25 makes use of trunking data transmitted inside the voice channels. I imagine that's not perfect, so perhaps I will add a second SDR to use multi_rx.py in the future.

Anyways, I'm still quite new to all of this, so I welcome any corrections. It's so nice to hear crystal clear Raleigh chatter again! :p
 

RaleighGuy

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Raleigh police are using TG 47073 today for traffic/speed trap detail, it has both clear and encrypted radios today, previously I had logged only encrypted comms on this TG.

NOTE: This is not the normal usage for this talkgroup and it remains unidentified, it is not in database as actual usage is unknown.
 

RaleighGuy

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I have been running Unitrunker V2 for nearly three years on the new (well not new now but...) Wake P25 system. I have made notes and logged UID/RIDs and users. I'm attaching my log, downloaded today, that has been running the whole time, along with notes I've made. This is an excel file, but in order to attach it I had to zip it.

Also, just to clarify, the Wake TGs start at TG 46800, however UT lists all TGs on the system (not just the site). All 5 digit TGs below 46800 belong to the Cary system (site 1). Both Cary and Wake only use five digit TGs, if a TG has less than 5 digits it was probably used for testing, maintenance or setup.
 

Attachments

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RaleighGuy

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This morning Wake System is operating on the SCC of 853.9625, unknown if this a permanent change or if they will go back to 853.925.
 

spencerwww

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Aug 19, 2015
Messages
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Raleigh police are using TG 47073 today for traffic/speed trap detail, it has both clear and encrypted radios today, previously I had logged only encrypted comms on this TG.

NOTE: This is not the normal usage for this talkgroup and it remains unidentified, it is not in database as actual usage is unknown.
Is dispatch and ops in clear I saw tac and special ops like drug and srt in encrypted mostly ops areclear
 

PKnight56

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Related to the above, dispatchers consoles arent encrypted at all on those channels right? Sometimes you can hear the dispatchers key up but the officers are encrypted
 

RaleighGuy

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Related to the above, dispatchers consoles arent encrypted at all on those channels right? Sometimes you can hear the dispatchers key up but the officers are encrypted

Some radios, mostly officers from what I've heard, are still in the clear, maybe their radios were not updated yet. Ops 10 is still in the clear. But most other ops and district TAC TGs are encrypted.
 

spencerwww

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Yea on radiorefrence the tac or clear specl.ops are wncrpyed and ops the dis and dispatch channels are showing clear
 

RaleighGuy

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New TG 47241 being used for the City of Wendell's 95th Annual Harvest Festival, believe this is city common used to coordinate/setup/manage/tear down special events.
 

RaleighGuy

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But it doesn't mention, that. The PDs' in Cary, Apex, and Morrisville are encrypted?

No it doesn't, nor is that the point of the wiki, if you want to know if it is encrypted go to the database. All that list does is display radio ID ranges, so if you find an encrypted TG not in the database you'll know who is on it. The VIPER RID wiki page doesn't say what is encrypted either, are you suggesting we delete the wiki pages that don't meet your expectations, or that they aren't useful to many others?

And, for your information, they are only encrypted when on their system, if they are on a VIPER SW TG or a Wake/Raleigh event TG, they can be heard in the clear. Oh, but you didn't mention that in your post.
 
Last edited:

Chris0516

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No it doesn't, nor is that the point of the wiki, if you want to know if it is encrypted go to the database. All that list does is display radio ID ranges, so if you find an encrypted TG not in the database you'll know who is on it. The VIPER RID wiki page doesn't say what is encrypted either, are you suggesting we delete the wiki pages that don't meet your expectations, or that they aren't useful to many others?

And, for your information, they are only encrypted when on their system, if they are on a VIPER SW TG or a Wake/Raleigh event TG, they can be heard in the clear. Oh, but you didn't mention that in your post.
No, Not scrap the wiki. Just including(in parentheses) what is already known as encrypted.
 

OnYourSix

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Apex, Cary and Morrisville on their native TG's are encrypted. Should they have to go to the "CAM Backup" repeater that is entirely off of the CAM network, I don't believe that is encrypted. And there is only one frequency listed in the database, so I don't know if that is it. If they have to go to this, all three agencies will have to share the same frequency, and it has happened in the past.

854.5625809.5625WPEN309RM192.8 PLCARYPDBACKUPPolice (backup to TRS)
 

RaleighGuy

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Apex, Cary and Morrisville on their native TG's are encrypted. Should they have to go to the "CAM Backup" repeater that is entirely off of the CAM network, I don't believe that is encrypted. And there is only one frequency listed in the database, so I don't know if that is it. If they have to go to this, all three agencies will have to share the same frequency, and it has happened in the past.

854.5625809.5625WPEN309RM192.8 PLCARYPDBACKUPPolice (backup to TRS)
There are also CAM Backup TGs on the Wake system. Additionally, I have heard the PD from all three in the clear on EVENT 10 (the shared mutual aid events TG) on the Wake system, and on VIPER Statewide Events channels, as I mentioned above, but some people don't want to think outside the Cary system.
 

spencerwww

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Some radios, mostly officers from what I've heard, are still in the clear, maybe their radios were not updated yet. Ops 10 is still in the clear. But most other ops and district TAC TGs are encrypted.
Are all the fjre dept ops and tacs clear were ubrefering ops 10 on fire or police
 
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