What is left to listen to???

[Diddley]

With the big changeover to PSRN now unfolding across the province, that leaves me with an honest question. Besides taxi cabs, school buses, the garbage guys and the old marine/aviation/rail bands, what, exactly of interest is there left to listen to then? Is the hobby really dying, time to pack it all in and sell everything right down the antenna wire(s)?

I think I already know the question to that answer....

 

[randyf]

In my area we will still have fire to listen to on analog. but many are switching to DMR. I have my local roads

 

[Freemor]

Here in NB things have been on a PSRN since I got back into scanning (with a SDR) There is still lots to listen to. Ambulance, Fire (very useful during a recent forest fire in our area), Departmant of Transportation/Infrastructure (Useful for knowing road conditions during stroms), Department of Natural Resources, etc. And that is just the stuff on the MPSRN.

Outside of the MPSRN there is a large (medical) POCSAG signal from the states. Police/fire departments over in Maine. The Marine band is interesting here being coastal. CB bands, Ham bands, Local power utility, FRS/GMRS, Pulling down images from the NOAA VHF satellites. Tracking local marine traffic with AIS, pulling in SSTV inages both Ham and Pirate.

Then there is stuff that I'm not sure a scanner (as compared to an SDR) can do. I just don't know because I haven't been hands on with an actual RF scanner since the 80s. things like tracking aircraft with ADSB. Listening to air to ground calls via AREO. Sat phone calls. Etc.

All that to say that there is a whole world of radio stuff out there outside the PRSN. It depends on your interest of course. Mine has always been trying to find new and interesting things out there to listen to. And listening to the PSRN etc when there is something going on I want more information on. I am quite Rural here and was worried that there would be nothing to listen to. But there is still a whole world out there.

 

[mciupa]

If your only focus is emergency services, then that ship has sailed. Our tastes on what we monitor are personal and subjective. Others may not minding listening to what you find boring.

You could sell that expensive hardware and buy a RTL-SDR, a subscription to DSD+ Fast Lane, and a used computer for a lot less money with that cash from a premium scanner sale.
That way you can still dabble in the hobby.

 

[gary123]

Encrcyption and new systems are not the end of scanning by a long shot. There are many new and exciting challenges and discoveries to be made. Many of us are using the scanners to log deeper details of the systems. Everyone has and uses the site frequency list from the database. This is just the basic information that is easily available. Looking deeper all sites have a primary and secondary CC frequencies. Some systems like PSRN appear to have one frequency that is the primary and usually does not change. They then have a secondary. Other systems have 4 or more CC frequencies again logging this information is fun. Some systems even rotate the CC through all the frequencies. Identifying these different systems can be challenging and bring a new level of enjoyment.

Going past the CC frequencies we get into items like the neighbor list. this tells you what site links to what site. As you map out the sites you get a feel for where a user is going to move to as they travel around the areas. The neighbor list is also great got identifying new sites or even general changes to the system.

Next and one of the more useful and fun items is the RID(radio identity) list. Each radio on a system has a unique number EG 773654. By doing a lot of monitoring and observation you can eventually identify the RID as being a particular vehicle, station or dispatcher. By using the Unit Ids field in most scanners you can then tag the ID with a real name. Eventually you would be able to see the dispatch and the unit names. You may not be able to hear the conversation but you would know that EMS unit xxxx is talking back and forth with the dispatcher.

Another more challenging thing to discover it the encryption KID(key Identity) and Algorithm. This information is not secret and will not allow you to decrypt anything BUT is it part of the TG info sent by the system. In some cases the user has 1 key in others they may have several. Knowing that key XXX shows up on all YYYYYY service users can help identify who a new or unknown TG may belong to.

The final challenge is to actually identify the TG names or users. We are lucky to have been well prepared for the PSRN transition. many are monitoring fleetnet and PSRN and watching as one service TG disappears off fleetnet and a new TG appears on PSRN.

 

[Gymbag]

Encrcyption and new systems are not the end of scanning by a long shot. There are many new and exciting challenges and discoveries to be made. Many of us are using the scanners to log deeper details of the systems. Everyone has and uses the site frequency list from the database. This is just the basic information that is easily available. Looking deeper all sites have a primary and secondary CC frequencies. Some systems like PSRN appear to have one frequency that is the primary and usually does not change. They then have a secondary. Other systems have 4 or more CC frequencies again logging this information is fun. Some systems even rotate the CC through all the frequencies. Identifying these different systems can be challenging and bring a new level of enjoyment.

Going past the CC frequencies we get into items like the neighbor list. this tells you what site links to what site. As you map out the sites you get a feel for where a user is going to move to as they travel around the areas. The neighbor list is also great got identifying new sites or even general changes to the system.

Next and one of the more useful and fun items is the RID(radio identity) list. Each radio on a system has a unique number EG 773654. By doing a lot of monitoring and observation you can eventually identify the RID as being a particular vehicle, station or dispatcher. By using the Unit Ids field in most scanners you can then tag the ID with a real name. Eventually you would be able to see the dispatch and the unit names. You may not be able to hear the conversation but you would know that EMS unit xxxx is talking back and forth with the dispatcher.

Another more challenging thing to discover it the encryption KID(key Identity) and Algorithm. This information is not secret and will not allow you to decrypt anything BUT is it part of the TG info sent by the system. In some cases the user has 1 key in others they may have several. Knowing that key XXX shows up on all YYYYYY service users can help identify who a new or unknown TG may belong to.

The final challenge is to actually identify the TG names or users. We are lucky to have been well prepared for the PSRN transition. many are monitoring fleetnet and PSRN and watching as one service TG disappears off fleetnet and a new TG appears on PSRN.

The question was what is there to listen to? A lot of us don’t care about logging RIDs or trying to figure out what unit is transmitting that we can’t hear. I like many have been listening to a scanner of some sort for over forty years. We just want something to fill in the void that the PSRN has created. We don’t want to sit and stare at a scanner or computer trying to figure out stuff we can’t listen to. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mciupa]

The question was what is there to listen to?

It's dead, Gym. . .

My answer was it is personal and subjective, like listening to music. We all make our own choices on what we like to hear. Not everyone likes the same thing. If you limit yourself to only one type of radio comm's, you lose out. Totally your choice.

 

[mapleradio]

There are some fun stuff on Metrolinx (GO Transit) and most local transit authorities, such as HSR or TTC. Always something stupid to listen in on... especially at TiCats games!

 

[EJB]

I can listen to Halton, Toronto, sometimes Peel.
Air comms are superior on my SDS100 than any scanner I have ever had
DMR systems like Jackson Square are entertaining, sadly. But entertaining none the least.

Niagara Region, Niagara, New York.

When FleetNet is shut off, it's been a heck of a run, from 1977 until now for me. 47 years of radio, then scanning.

This sucks. Anytime I see an OPP officer, I'll tell them that it sucks and their choice to go encrypted means I'll never ever help them out if they choose to be encrypted.

I've heard plenty comms where they have *****ed about encryption and have actually switched it off. I have a feeling that they will be told to do this and they will do that.

Maybe I'll mess with the 30-50 band.
Maybe I'll work on SDR DSD. Continue on Unitrunker for RIDS and patterns.. .

 

[VA3WEX]

...exactly of interest is there left to listen to then? I

Me personal, I don't like listening to police or ambulances. I don't like hearing about car accidents, overdoses, and little old ladies falling in the bathroom.

Things i find entertaining:
- school buses (anything where kids are involved is going to be entertaining!)
- going to the airport to watch planes and listen to Air Traffic Control
- construction cranes
- public transit
- ham repeaters
- random guys with walkie talkies (poor man's ham radio!)

 

[gary123]

Other things to listen to are shopping malls, the FRS/GMRS, and LPU freq's. There are a ton of commercial users on FRS. Also many larger apt complexes use radios. The same for factories and warehouses.
There are even some schools using radios for hall monitors, etc. Also special events of all types use radios for everything from stage crews to security. Even travelling fairs use radio for ride main and ticket supplying as well as restocking the prize pool. Airports also have ground service frequencies and business allocations.

mciupa hit it on the head. It's like listening to music. Everyone has their own tastes. Some like to listen, some like to write, some like to play.
It's a wonderful spectrum with no right or wrong answers.

 

[chrismol1]

My favorite thing to find is businesses with very casual radio chat to downright graphic vulgar language about their job and co-workers. Haha "Radio tough guys" all bark no bite

 

[VA3ADP]

Still have EMS in Toronto, most Fire Services, tons of Public Works, City Security. Tons of City Services still out there and Emergency Services, too.

 

[Diddley]

I'm in Chatham-Kent. Here's what's essentially left to tune into down here thanks to our genius government:

School Buses
Hospital Porters
Taxi Cabs
Garbage Guys
Marine/Aviation/weather band.

Really exciting eh? Anyone interested in a -436 will all the upgrades?

 

[mciupa]

Contact the above member privately and not in this thread for commercial deals.

 

[bigcam406]

Living forever in Durham Region, I have already experienced the loss of good comms. DRPS went encrypted back in '99, then the " Next Gen" system rolled out a few years ago, basically deafened everything except City Services and garbage trucks. The one thing that was a constant was FleetNet. Other than the obvious of enjoying listening to that system every night at work for the past 30 years, I also used it as a tool while travelling, to avoid accident delays and bad highway conditions due to weather.

I admit it I will be sad when the changeover occurs, but such is life. I'm lucky to live in a location where I can receive comm's fom New York State, so I will shift my focus on those instead.
It is true though, this hobby is slowly dying.

 

[FoeHammer]

Well, here in Windsor, we have lost local PD and will lose EMS, OPP as well. When the switch occurs what's left will be civilian air, military air, marine , some business , some DMR like cabs. Of course, I think it's a dumb move as having that many more eyes able to report in real time is huge but that is the way it is.

Who knows, maybe one day the trend will go the other way and they will un encrypt at least main dispatch channels. Maybe one day the way AI and quantum computing is progressing , AI should be able to crack encryption ,create and write custom firmware to a radio. That could be quite possible sometime in the future. You never know what the future brings.

 

[VA3ADP]

Well, here in Windsor, we have lost local PD and will lose EMS, OPP as well. When the switch occurs what's left will be civilian air, military air, marine , some business , some DMR like cabs. Of course, I think it's a dumb move as having that many more eyes able to report in real time is huge but that is the way it is.

Who knows, maybe one day the trend will go the other way and they will un encrypt at least main dispatch channels. Maybe one day the way AI and quantum computing is progressing , AI should be able to crack encryption ,create and write custom firmware to a radio. That could be quite possible sometime in the future. You never know what the future brings.

I also feel the same way. Eventually, I don't think the need for the big E will be there or agencies may get lazy. Having those extra eyes and ears out there is very helpful in my opinion.

 

[gary123]

I also feel the same way. Eventually, I don't think the need for the big E will be there or agencies may get lazy. Having those extra eyes and ears out there is very helpful in my opinion.

Yes it is, but it appears that many agencies prefer the attitude of "we want to control what the public knows and when". If that fails then they fall back on the it's for officer safety or there is private information that needs to be kept private.

It is well known in the industry that the big "E" (lol) costs many services a huge and non recoverable chunk of public assistance. No amount of arguing is going to change the services mind. Encryption is a fact of life in today's world. many of us technically minded are now looking at other system data and other things to at least try and be aware of what is going on.

 

[Mr44]

Yes it is, but it appears that many agencies prefer the attitude of "we want to control what the public knows and when". If that fails then they fall back on the it's for officer safety or there is private information that needs to be kept private.

Well there is something to be said about private information. Back before encryption, I would routinely hear peoples' full names, dates of birth, etc. being broadcast over the air for anyone with a scanner to hear.