Where's the ARRL's vaunted EMCOMM?

[alcahuete]

Hams will need to find their niche again, and keep finding it.

Or perhaps there will be no niche to find, and ham radio will just go back to being a hobby again, like it should have been all along.

With technology progressing as it has, there is nothing amateur radio can do that a LMR, satellite, etc., system can't do. This is even more true with Starlink. It isn't so much having a ham radio operator show up that is valuable, rather it's just having an extra volunteer to help.

I was at ground zero immediately after Hurricane Maria hit, and after the eartquakes as well, in a disaster and infrastructure recovery role for a federal agency. After Maria, we rolled communications and command and control trucks off of C17s and had robust communications set up to the mainland and within the islands in less than 45 minutes.

A couple days later, we had a handful of hams show up at the airport with a bunch of handheld radios, a couple HF radios, and orange vests, telling us that they wanted to help us establish communications to the mainland. Oh yeah, can't forget the 4x4 pickup with the yellow magnetic light bar and ham magnets on the doors. We sent them away.

Where the hams did help was taking pressure off of the Red Cross staff. It wasn't that amateur radios were needed. They had their own radios and sat phones that worked just fine. The hams were simply more bodies to volunteer, who just so happened to use their own radios instead of the Red Cross radios. The Red Cross folks could have just as easily picked up their own radios and talked around the islands on the repeaters that were set up. And the hams could have just as easily been replaced by any other volunteer who showed up. But they were able and willing bodies, and they were very helpful to the Red Cross.

Another place hams excelled was sending welfare messages to the mainland, on behalf of residents and vacationers. We did our best to do the same when we could, but it wasn't our primary mission. Wasn't even our secondary or tertiary mission. We didn't have time to pass that information. Hams did. And from what I understand, they did a pretty good job.

Where the hams were not needed was on the front lines running around with orange vests, acting like professional first responders. They had absolutely no business being with the police, fire, or EMT. None.

So what is amateur radio's place in Maui? I still contend there is none. Can you pass welfare messages back to the 48? Sure....or you could just go a few miles up the road and ask one of the hotels if you can borrow their phone. Can you do search and rescue? Yeah...but you don't need a ham radio for that.

 

[KV4BL]

That's very interesting, but perhaps the problem was the "vetting?"

I have seen the background check and vetting thing mentioned quite a few times on this thread. Lord knows, I would not want somebody that had a DUI ten years ago, or the guy who got busted stealing hubcaps when he was 17, passing traffic to Aunt Tilly on the other side of the country, letting her know that we are okay and will call her when normal comms are restored. That just wouldn't do! (In my best Andy Taylor voice) AFAIK, the whole background check/"vetting" thing has only been an issue the last twenty or so years. I wonder how many traffic originators or recipients were hunted down and done away with by convicted axe murderers in those dank, dark, less enlightened days. 🙄

A lot of this smacks of that "Big Club and you ain't in it" that the late George Carlin used to speak of.

 

[n2nov]

A lot of this smacks of that "Big Club and you ain't in it" that the late George Carlin used to speak of.

You should also consider the attitude of municipalities that do not want to work with volunteers at all, yet when their fat is in the fire wonder why the local radio group is not contacted or involved. If people are told many times to get lost, then they will and be off doing other things.

Post-9/11 NYC made a big deal of people volunteering to "help their communities". However, the NYC OEM (as a program of City Hall) also went from utilizing hams in the RACES program from 1996 to 2004, but shut them out entirely when OEM became a full-fledged agency and became more political. Of course, it did not help that some ARRL appointee pushed his weight around making demands and was told that hams were no longer allowed to be involved with emergency management. But it's OK, we just keep the hams busy with charitable/public service events and respond to the Red Cross the few times they have asked for help (blizzard shelters and Hurricane Sandy). If the NYC emergency management agency ever wants to work with our trained members (FEMA certified 100/200/700/800), then we will have a conversation.

 

[alcahuete]

I have seen the background check and vetting thing mentioned quite a few times on this thread. Lord knows, I would not want somebody that had a DUI ten years ago, or the guy who got busted stealing hubcaps when he was 17, passing traffic to Aunt Tilly on the other side of the country, letting her know that we are okay and will call her when normal comms are restored. That just wouldn't do! (In my best Andy Taylor voice) AFAIK, the whole background check/"vetting" thing has only been an issue the last twenty or so years. I wonder how many traffic originators or recipients were hunted down and done away with by convicted axe murderers in those dank, dark, less enlightened days. 🙄

A lot of this smacks of that "Big Club and you ain't in it" that the late George Carlin used to speak of.

It's not what you're doing, it's where you're doing it and who you're doing it with. Any law enforcement agency is going to have a background check for volunteers. Federal agencies, you can pretty much forget it if you have more than a traffic ticket on your record.

Location, location, location. Convicted felons in the EOC? Probably not a wise idea.

 

[jm650]

I've said this before:

A radio is a tool. It's a single tool.
To a true first responder, they have a radio in their "tool box", but they also have a lot of other "tools", training, experience, knowledge, skills, etc.

A guy with one tool does us no good. Hams seem to be under the impression that every issue can be resolved with a radio. Hams need to have a lot more tools in their tool box if they want to be functional in a disaster. They need to have training. They need to have experience. They need to have a wide range of skills. They need to be willing to do things that are not radio related.

Unfortunately I have not seen that in my experience. I see a guy with a walkie talkie that is 'here to help', but only as long as it involves using the radio.

The issue is that they want to be hams first. It needs to be the other way around. Have a skill, use amateur radio to enhance that skill. The days of needing a dedicated radio operator are just about gone. And I sure as hell don't need someone with a Baofeng.

How about a guy trained in ICS
Who has first aid, cpr, bls
Part 107 drone pilot
CISSA AuxComm (AUXC) certified
Routinely trains with his local fire district and is category 1 deployable

Is that guy useful? Asking for a friend.

 

[n0esc]

It's not what you're doing, it's where you're doing it and who you're doing it with. Any law enforcement agency is going to have a background check for volunteers. Federal agencies, you can pretty much forget it if you have more than a traffic ticket on your record.

Location, location, location. Convicted felons in the EOC? Probably not a wise idea.

Add to that the onus on every agency, entity or organization to be able to prove that they did their due diligence in allowing someone access to sensitive, classified, protected information or people. It isn't good enough anymore to take Jimbo's word for it that you can trust Cletus is a good dude. That ship sailed and I am lost as to why the culture of some individuals is to take offence at being asked. Working in and around public safety for the last quarter century and I have been backgrounded, fingerprinted and certified more times than I can count. It just be like that sometimes.

 

[jm650]

Oh but "One Has Seen MANY disasters", both natural and HAM made. So YES, I will comment.. Unless the local authorities are REQUESTING Ham radio help, Hams should stand down and wait.

Self deploying is a great way to damage any relationship you hope to have with local or regional authorities.

 

[KV4BL]

Add to that the onus on every agency, entity or organization to be able to prove that they did their due diligence in allowing someone access to sensitive, classified, protected information or people. It isn't good enough anymore to take Jimbo's word for it that you can trust Cletus is a good dude. That ship sailed and I am lost as to why the culture of some individuals is to take offence at being asked. Working in and around public safety for the last quarter century and I have been backgrounded, fingerprinted and certified more times than I can count. It just be like that sometimes.

Which begs another question as to WHY information during a disaster would be "classified", "top secret", or any other of those watch words. Ideally, any knowledge to the public (peasants, taxpayers, the people paying the salaries of sainted GovCo workers, for the EOC's, the equipment in them, etc) should be "good" knowledge. Is it right that the iminent major power dam collapse and flooding my neighborhood or town is kept secret from me by some self-important GovCo pogue, ostensibly to "avoid a panic", thereby preventing me from moving myself and family from the area, immediately? I have read much praise for those mighty GovCo comm systems (all funded by the peasants/taxpayers), many of which now operate "in the dark" so those citizens can be kept in the dark as much as those pulling the strings wish them to be. Just a point worth pondering...

As a ham, in the past, I manned radios at EC sites during drills, the local NWS during severe weather, and acted as a SKYWARN spotter while mobile. One of my interests/reasons for getting into ham was emergency comms, whether in an official or unofficial capacity. I never felt the need or desire to be photographed with a mic in my hand while wearing a traffic vest and hard hat for QST while in the club's Emergency Trailer, despite that apparently being the fashionable thing to do in recent decades. I had to take the ICS classes as a LEO. They lost me on that silliness when I was told that under ICS, if I was the first responding unit on scene at an active shooter incident at the local mall, that I was to remain in my vehicle at a safe distance from the mall and act as Incident Commander until someone of higher rank arrived on scene. 🙄 Uh, yeah.....sure.... That kind of thinking probably enabled the inaction at Uvalde, TX which cost lots of innocent lives. Even back then, I saw the folly of this new golden calf that first responders were rallying around.

Honorably retired a decade and a half ago, I thought about volunteering in some EmComm capacity. I feel confident that I would pass the background checks, but naw, my self-importance quotient just isn't that high. Carlin was right. It IS a Big Club. Some want to be in it. I can live well without it as I am sure it can without me.

 

[n0esc]

I don't disagree with much of your views. That said, IMO for what it's worth is that it isn't so much that volunteer EMCOMM operators relaying messages about lost dogs or whether or not anyone has seen Becky yet are inherently a risk. It's more that since the speed of an event can rapidly evolve and they want those resources to deploy rapidly, efficiently and correctly, you need access to spaces, equipment, and sensitive areas where you might come across information that needs to be protected. Most places hurting for manpower in an emergent situation sure don't have a body to spare to be leading a flock of lost souls around looking for a way to "help". They want to deploy whatever infrastructure and manpower they have efficiently.

Maybe as a volunteer your agency wants to give everyone metal keys to a storage area or trailer with equipment in it, or access to fleet vehicles, or an electronic key card. Or computer logins to get on an internal network. Or access to radios with encrypted channels or programming they don't want made public. Or a staging area inside a space that CJIS says contains sensitive information and you need to complete CJIS Security Awareness training, which you can do without having done a background check. All of the above wouldn't be prudent without making sure that Randy Whacker doesn't have a felony impersonating an officer charge out of Idaho. But he's a good kid. He'll be fine right?

I think others have belabored the point that the issue more often than not in today's day and age of technology, the rusty but trusty volunteers become boat anchors themselves when they show up because they don't know how to use a lot of the newer tools and equipment that agencies are deploying in the field. Showing up with your Yaesu strapped just isn't going to do any good.

You personally having relevant professional training and experience is the exception not the rule, and I think someone else pointed out earlier, that a lot of people like that are already volunteering in other more professional or affiliated roles and aren't a talent pool that the local ARES or REACT club has to tap into in most cases.

 

[RichardKramer]

With this disaster I don't think any kind of advanced warning would've helped people evacuate safely. With the 60+ wind gusts from the hurricane to the South fanning the flames it was almost impossible for any kind of warning to help get people out. There were reports of people tied up in traffic with cars exploding next to each other, so people just jumped out of their cars and ran. Even boats near the shore caught fire. Hopefully, the cause of the fire will be found and ways to keep an incident from happening like this again will come to fruition.

 

[mmckenna]

With this disaster I don't think any kind of advanced warning would've helped people evacuate safely.

I agree.
I think most of the discussion here is around response. I don't think anyone would believe that amateur radio would have prevented this, or helped with evacuation.

The discussion seems to be mostly about recovery and what amateur radio can do. Since it's only a few square miles, I don't see that amateur radio has any tools that would be better than what everyone else has.
What amateur radio has is additional people. Wether or not those people with radios can be used effectively is a question. I'm not hearing that lack of people is the issue. There's a lot of boots on the ground, which is better than sneakers/loafers on the ground.

Cellular/wireline services are impacted, but those will get restored. Meantime, people have been evacuated out of the immediate area to locations where cell phones work.

While this is an awful disaster, I don't see where amateur radio is going to play a big role in response/recovery.

 

[krokus]

Hawaii has many amateur radio repeaters and an extensive internet-linked repeater system, including KH6COM, a VHF/UHF Maui countywide system with emergency backup power. An update, as of August 11, 2023, shares that the KH6COM repeater system is operational in Central Maui, Haleakala Summit, Lanai, and Molokai. “Repeaters on the Whaler and Kaanapali Beach Hotel lost linking due to fiber optics cables burned. Those in Lahaina can utilize the Pu’u O Hoku Ranch repeater at the East end of Molokai.”

Devastating Hawaii Wildfires Prompt Response from Amateur Radio Emergency Service

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

While I was stationed on Oahu, I participated in activities with the local hams that were tied to the EOCs. The two repeaters covered most of the island, and could be reached by neighboring islands. For those that are not aware, you can see Molokai from the east side of Oahu, and I could see Kuaui while skydiving. People from Kuaui would check in to the net, on the North Shore repeater. (I was in an RF shadow of the Diamond Head repeater, so no idea how often there would be check in from Molokai or Maui.)

The main point is that a moderate mobile/base setup could get word to another island, to pass requests, etc.

 

[mmckenna]

Here's the latest release from the FCC:

911 PSAP is still up, never went down.

Cell phone service is about 50% restored. Remember that cell sites may have overlapping coverage, so coverage may be greater than 50%.

Cell carriers have deployed mobile assets to the area.

AT&T has several STA's for temporary microwave links and Cell On Wheels.

4 AM broadcast stations in service.

Wireline services being restored.

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-396019A1.pdf

 

[jeepsandradios]

As reference in the HA section of the state listing there is a post on the HAM stuff used on the island and what is up or not up along with an ICS205.

MAUI ICS 205's

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CfWIk6ZTlbcbfizyZ9-DOJyqHusbA0KWBE2RSVMCtMg/edit?pli=1

forums.radioreference.com

 

[krokus]

911 PSAP is still up, never went down.

I'm not sure which PSAP aspects they refer to, but the 911 service was down, at least on the west side of the island. The county released, a regular phone number, via the media. (I watched KHON, and I think it was KHNL.)

 

[VA3WEX]

"Ham radio: The original social media" ?

Ya, eh? That's a good way of describing it. And I saw a lot of value in that during a disaster, without going anywhere a formal government emergency service.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm not sure which PSAP aspects they refer to, but the 911 service was down, at least on the west side of the island. The county released, a regular phone number, via the media. (I watched KHON, and I think it was KHNL.)

It would depend on exactly what was down.
Since some of the central offices/remote terminals would have been impacted, the ability to call 911 would be also. A 7 digit number might have been a way for cellular callers to get to the right PSAP (not sure how they divide things up in Hawaii). The PSAP may have been up and running just fine, it's possible that some areas were not able to call 911.

FCC does trace PSAP outages and 911 service outages. Always a good to have a 7 digit emergency number as well as the non-emergency numbers in your cell phone.

 

[MStep]

With this disaster I don't think any kind of advanced warning would've helped people evacuate safely. With the 60+ wind gusts from the hurricane to the South fanning the flames it was almost impossible for any kind of warning to help get people out. There were reports of people tied up in traffic with cars exploding next to each other, so people just jumped out of their cars and ran. Even boats near the shore caught fire. Hopefully, the cause of the fire will be found and ways to keep an incident from happening like this again will come to fruition.

I differ in that opinion. Had the sirens sounded, at least a few unfortunates would have been given a heads-up, and lives might well have been saved. The fact the people saw what appeared to be a conflagration but did not hear sirens may well have psychologically detracted from what was an urgent situation.

But back to the original premise of the thread, this is one of the horrific disasters of the 21st century in which amateur radio could not play a significant role. It's not like the excellent nuclear war themed movie from 1983, "Testament" (a must see), where the ham radio operator was the only communications link in and out of a small town in the United States, not far from San Francisco. Times and technology have changed.

 

[alcahuete]

How about a guy trained in ICS
Who has first aid, cpr, bls
Part 107 drone pilot
CISSA AuxComm (AUXC) certified
Routinely trains with his local fire district and is category 1 deployable

Is that guy useful? Asking for a friend.

As long as you don't call yourself a pilot....possibly useful.

 

[rescuecomm]

Well let's see. One would think that the billions of dollars of Homeland Security money spent after 9/11 got public safety communications systems up to speed. Surely where a guy with $2000 worth of gear definitely isn't needed.
Aren't the FF/LEO/EMT guys packing $8000 handhelds on million dollar trunked sites? That's a lot more radio money than I'll ever see for ham stuff.

Good to be reminded about multi-billion dollar satellite technology and cellular phone company capabilities being better than anything regular people can afford.

I don't think the ARRL got any billion dollar grants. LOL..