Why is ham radio not P-25?

[Project25_MASTR]

So, in my case is it a Snobwood? But then again I do own some Motorola, so maybe I'm a Motosnobwood.

But then where do you draw the line between Kenwood amateur and Kenwood LMR? Or EFJ?

Considering my P25 lineup consists of Kenwood, EFJ, Motorola, and Simoco and now MA/COM. Guess that would just make me a connoisseur, I think.

Hahahaha

Just because someone does not like the garbage pail hammy radios that are offered these days does make someone a ‘Motosnobs’

Add in the plethora of garbage coming out of China, with names one needs to guess how to pronounce, and it’s no wonder folks are using modes like P25 and NXDN.

DMR was fun until the masses of operators showed up that can’t be bothered to learn how to program their radios, and just beg for a pre-made code plug, now the only talk group worth monitoring is Local.

Call me a ‘Motosnob’ if you want, but my Motorola radios have sat unused for over a year now.


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My biggest issue with DMR was the poor planning of talk groups. Instead of limiting repeaters to two or three talk groups they have to have everything on them and literally get tied up for hours for conversations no one local even cares about.



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[N4KVE]

My biggest issue with DMR was the poor planning of talk groups. Instead of limiting repeaters to two or three talk groups they have to have everything on them and literally get tied up for hours for conversations no one local even cares about.

This is a major problem. Living here in SE Florida, I really don't need Bubba in NC tying up a local TS to tell Jose in east LA what he had for lunch. This is why most of our DMR repeaters here have only 1 TG per TS. We don't try to jam 25 TG's into 2 TS's. And the 1 repeater with NA makes it PTT to activate. Otherwise, it stays silent.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I do agree about the poor design of the amateur DMR networks.

Basically, DMR-MARC tried to cram the equivalent of the HF bands into 2 slots on VHF or UHF. It doesn't work well, nor can it. The other networks had to follow suit because they all started out being dependent on the DMR-MARC infrastructure. It would be great if someone could design and collectively implement a whole new DMR networking structure that was more compatible with repeater operation.

 

[N4GIX]

On my local DMR repeater, all of the TG's on Slot 1 are PTT activated.

On Slot 2 only Local #2, Indiana Statewide #3118, and Midwest #3169 are 'full time'. All others are PTT only.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Certain people are hard enough to understand on analog. On DMR they are impossible to understand.

The thing I like with the Motorola XPR 3300 is actually it's analog performance.

For bands where the bandwidth for simplex is limited, I would like dPMR or NXDN to take off.

 

[kayn1n32008]

For bands where the bandwidth for simplex is limited, I would like dPMR or NXDN to take off.

Very narrow NXDN works really well. Audio quality is superb on both my NX200 and NX700



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[N4GIX]

Certain people are hard enough to understand on analog. On DMR they are impossible to understand.

Apparently you either have crap for a repeater or something else. I can hear and understand 95% of everyone I hear on DMR.

Of course there are some folks who simply don't know how to use their radio, or are in really bad locations. Maybe 5% of the time their signal is marginal and I hear some "R2D2..." :wink:

 

[KC3ECJ]

Apparently you either have crap for a repeater or something else. I can hear and understand 95% of everyone I hear on DMR.

Of course there are some folks who simply don't know how to use their radio, or are in really bad locations. Maybe 5% of the time their signal is marginal and I hear some "R2D2..." :wink:

It isn't repeater, it is commercial simplex.

People with certain kind of voices are hard enough to understand on analog, DMR makes it worse. DMR also doesn't know what to do with different kinds of background noise.

 

[kayn1n32008]

DMR also doesn't know what to do with different kinds of background noise.

That’s what active noise cancelling audio accessories are for


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[com501]

DMR needs Tier III enabled for hams so they can have multiple repeaters per site to accommodate the traffic.

Some of us are working on those solutions.

 

[kayn1n32008]

DMR needs Tier III enabled for hams so they can have multiple repeaters per site to accommodate the traffic.

Some of us are working on those solutions.

It will also keep the Chinese garbage away, and provide better access control.


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[Project25_MASTR]

It will also keep the Chinese garbage away, and provide better access control.


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Making a two slot pseudo trunk part of the Tier II spec would go a long way for lifting access issues.

Trunking (as in with a control channel) in amateur radio is going to be the real head turner though. I’m not overly fond of the Tier III spec myself and much prefer the features of P25 trunking but that’s just me.


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[KK4JUG]

What does all this do for the guy on the road who tries to talk with other hams to help pass the time away?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Making a two slot pseudo trunk part of the Tier II spec would go a long way for lifting access issues.

Trunking (as in with a control channel) in amateur radio is going to be the real head turner though. I’m not overly fond of the Tier III spec myself and much prefer the features of P25 trunking but that’s just me.


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What does P25 do that DMR T3 doesn’t do?


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[N4KVE]

It will also keep the Chinese garbage away, and provide better access control.

Most of the time when I hear poor DMR TX audio, the guy with the terrible audio is using a DV4mini, SharkRF, or other similar device. They sound horrible, & are not allowed on any of the local DMR repeaters except one.

 

[prcguy]

What percentage of amateurs on DMR are using cheap Chinese radios compared to Bloatorola? I'll bet if it weren't for Chinese radios DMR would never take off like it did on the amatuer bands.
prcguy

It will also keep the Chinese garbage away, and provide better access control.


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[kayn1n32008]

What percentage of amateurs on DMR are using cheap Chinese radios compared to Bloatorola? I'll bet if it weren't for Chinese radios DMR would never take off like it did on the amatuer bands.

prcguy

I think it still would have taken off. I own CSI, but would have invested in Hytera or Motorola if CSI had not gotten into the game.

It would have kept the code plug beggars out, frankly that would not bother me any. Those that invest in quality gear seem to be more into actually learning how to program their radios, rather than begging for a pre-made code plug.

I have been doing this hobby for a long time. It seems since cheap DMR radios and the garbage Chinese crap radios have attracted a type of operator that refuses to try and learn how to do anything for themselves. Same with looking for info. Begs for it rather than using google. It makes elmering people really difficult. They just want the answer, not what it takes to discover it.

It’s frustrating. When I got into this hobby windows was still at 3.11, and the internet was not mainstream yet. I had to learn it through my Elmer’s, two of which are now SK, but super patient that were willing to teach what they knew.

I love teaching new hams. I have zero patience for those that want things given to them with out putting in any effort to learn.


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[AK9R]

Folks, the original question was why isn't P25 more commonly used in amateur radio. Complaining about various aspects of DMR really isn't on topic for this thread.

 

[N4KVE]

Radios aren't $59 on Amazon, a programming cable could cost more, CPS doesn't come with the radio, code plugs are not available on social media, and since we program our own radios, a certain level of intelligence is required.

 

[Flyham]

I'll play along with an answer (well my opinion) to the original question, as well as border line response that may earn a "lock" on the thread... Here goes!!!!!!

Ham Radio IS P25, it's also DMR, DSTAR, Fusion, NXDN, FM, AM, SSB, CW, AX.25, Pactor 1-4, Olivia, FT-8 (and a plethora of other PSK / MSK modes) plus many others that I didn't include.
One might say it boils down to what this line from Wikipedia says "Amateur radio (also called ham radio) describes the use of radio frequency spectrum for purposes of non-commercial exchange of messages, wireless experimentation, self-training, private recreation, radiosport, contesting, and emergency communication."....I'll save the parenthetical documentation for another time as the Wiki link as plenty to spare.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio.