Brevard County TRS..

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ElroyJetson

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At this time, who is actually hearing traffic from any of the north area sites?

Which site are you monitoring (site number) and which frequencies out of the list of 14 ("Cocoa" list in the database) are entered in your LCN list?
 

K4SVT

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Im hearing things on Mims...all things that were on Titusville is coming out on it

Sent from my LG G Stylo on Metro PCS 4G LTE via Tapatalk
 

jpb286

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At this time, who is actually hearing traffic from any of the north area sites?

Which site are you monitoring (site number) and which frequencies out of the list of 14 ("Cocoa" list in the database) are entered in your LCN list?

As listed in my post before (#72) and site 12. I am pretty sure I'm not missing anything and I've been listening since this morning. It is the same signal strength as the previous Titusville system.
 

SherwoodPolice

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I attempted to input all of the Cocoa frequencies into a bank and opened up for ID search and heard nothing.
 

ElroyJetson

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This IS working for me.

Site ID 12

1) 851.2250
2) 851.5625
3) 851.7500
4) 852.2625
5) -you may have to put in a dummy channel if you're not using a scanner.
6) 853.3500
7) 853.6875
8) -or dummy channel if not using a scanner
9) -or dummy channel if not using a scanner
10) 851.8250
11) 852.7500
12) 853.1625
13) 853.4125
14) -
 

SherwoodPolice

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I input the above in my P7100 and I think I'm too far south to get anything but heard a talkgroup come up real quick so I am not sure if this is working for me or not. It looks correct though. Even with my 40ft. mast.
 
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ElroyJetson

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So, that was actually pretty fun. Not a day after the changeover, the new data has been figured out well enough to call it a success. Nice work!

Tomorrow I'll reprogram the M5300 in my car and call it finished.

Now to submit the new data to the database administrators.
 

K9JRF

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I would guess that in the next few days they will fill in the blank LCN positions and possible add some additional ones.
 

TDR-94

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This new system info only applies to the North simulcast cell currently, correct? The south system info hasn't changed yet and the Barefoot Bay frequency list on RR being the likely new frequency LCN for that cell? Would the South site ID # be the same as the north cell?
 
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K9JRF

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Yes the info only applies to the North simulcast cell.. Rockledge, PalmBay, and Eau Gallie sites are still the same as before.

Likely yes the south cell will consist of the Barefoot Bay info but no way to know so far.

No the South simulcast will have a different site ID when it comes online.


This new system info only applies to the North simulcast cell currently, correct? The south system info hasn't changed yet and the Barefoot Bay frequency list on RR being the likely new frequency LCN for that cell? Would the South site ID # be the same as the north cell?
 

waltmapb

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I would guess that in the next few days they will fill in the blank LCN positions and possible add some additional ones.

The license WQSY971 has four frequencies that can be added to fill in the blank spots in the LCN that we have now.
851.2500
851.5875
852.8875
853.9000
 

wise871

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FYI
I received two submissions today for the North Simulcast update. On both tickets I wasn't sure what I needed to do with Mims and Cocoa. If someone would have a look at the update and submit the updates I will make the changes tonight so it will be pushed during the Sunday night update. Also note I will have to adjust the lat and long for the site so it covers the north end of the county.
 

ElroyJetson

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I think that the update you did today is fine. It might be helpful to add a news note explaining that the Titusville tower is no more, retired, shut down, etc, and give basic information on the nature of the upgrade, which is the first phase in simulcasting the whole county's system.


This file here:

http://www.brevardcounty.us/docs/de...t/800-mhz-user's-meeting-nov2013.pdf?sfvrsn=0

is useful but it would be helpful to have the narrative that goes along with this presentation so it is easier to understand.

The ultimate plan is for the county to have a north simulcast system and a south simulcast system.

The north system will consist of the following sites: All will be full TX/RX sites,
which is an upgrade from the existing system where some of these sites already exist but are RX only,
functioning as voting receiver sites.

Mims
Scottsmoor
Titusville
Sharpes
Cocoa
Cape Canaveral
Rockledge
The north simulcast system's switch (brain) will be located at the Brevard County Sheriff's Office Titusville headquarters complex.

Note, although it is down for now, the Titusville site will return after being reconfigured, or that is how I interpret the document.

Then, the south simulcast cell will be constructed, consisting of:
Melbourne
Indian Harbour Beach
Palm Bay
Barefoot Bay
The south switch will be located at the Palm Bay site.

Note, the Titusville site will return after being reconfigured, or that is how I interpret the document.

The idea behind this simulcast upgrade (besides being a reason to spend money, I think) is to make it unnecessary for a system user to ever have to manually choose sites as long as he is within the coverage range of his half of the county, north or south.

The way this is done is that all sites within a simulcast cell are configured identically. They are exact clones of each other. Same frequency assignments, same trunked data, everything.

Each site is disciplined to a GPS or WWV-derived reference time base so they are exactly in sync with each other. The transmitter frequencies (for any given channel) will be exactly the same from one site to the next, within a tolerance of just 1 Hz. The timing for high and low speed data, and voice, is adjusted to be precisely the same, and the modulation levels of high and low speed data and voice are also adjusted with precision to be the same. This ensures reliable communications even in the areas where the user is transitioning from one site to another.

Here's the actual manual on EDACS simulcast system configuration, which is very informative.
http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-38587b.pdf
 

TDR-94

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Isn't there a third Beach simulcast system? Or is it just part of the North and South simulcast?
 

K9JRF

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Isn't there a third Beach simulcast system? Or is it just part of the North and South simulcast?
There will be a beach simulcast down the road which will be the 3rd part. They still got to build a tower in Cape Canaveral. From what I've seen that Cape tower and the Indian Harbour Beach tower will be the Beach Simulcast.
 

TDR-94

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Do you think that it's possible the SITE numbers would go in order of implementation? Something along the lines of, NORTH already using SITE#12, so SOUTH could be #13 and BEACH #14, even though the BEACH system would geographically be more in between the NORTH and SOUTH systems.

Just pure speculation on my part of course :)
 

K9JRF

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Do you think that it's possible the SITE numbers would go in order of implementation? Something along the lines of, NORTH already using SITE#12, so SOUTH could be #13 and BEACH #14 even though Beach would geographically be more in between NORTH and SOUTH.

Just pure speculation on my part of course :)
Yes very possible (logical in my opinion)... but technically they could make them anything so its purely speculation at this point.
 

ElroyJetson

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It seems most probable that there will be only one site number per simulcast cell.

I say this because if the site ID isn't right in the radio, the radio won't hear any traffic.

Since the objective is to be able to move from site to site freely and never have to manually change towers, all the sites have to have the same site ID number.

Thus, all north cell sites should have ID 12.


In my earlier comments I missed the part about there being a third simulcast cell eventually, but that is only hinted at in the document in the coverage maps section. So....time will tell. Maybe there will be a third cell, and maybe not.

Note also that in the same document, some pages show the Titusville and Palm Bay towers crossed out, which you might take to mean that they will not be part of the evolved system. Other parts of the document indicate that they will be.

Frankly, I think that document is contradictory, hard to follow, and generally very poorly laid out. Any powerpoint presentation worth the flash drive it's stored on is self explanatory to a respectable degree and doesn't contradict itself.

It kind of frightens me that our county's public safety radio system is in the hands of people who can't even put together a powerpoint that doesn't contradict itself.

I hope they're better at planning a radio system than putting together a powerpoint!
 

K9JRF

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The part missing that makes it make sense is the audio presentation but for me personally and my prior history it actually makes complete sense.

The third cell (Beach) there is additional documentation I believe from February 2015 that gives a little more info and talks about the Beach Simulcast.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YIYChU&usg=AFQjCNG158pdAMwayaeB7TqmgOBSQsksPA

Yes each simulcast cell will have and unique ID and every tower inside of each individual simulcast cell will use the same ID.

Example: North may have 5 towers all ID 30 in the simulcast cell. South may have 4 towers all ID 32 in the simulcast cell. Each simulcast cell operates on same frequencies thru out all towers in said cell.
 
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ElroyJetson

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I find myself wondering why they're not implementing the equivalent of Motorola's AMSS? Maybe becase Harris doesn't have it? (Speculation.)

(AMSS...Automatic Multiple Site Selection, an automatic RSSI based method of switching the trunked radio to the best site in range)


Frankly I question the whole project. We're going from four tower sites to, what, TEN now? To what great benefit? How much better will the coverage be and how much more reliable will the system be for the large additional expense incurred?

Four sites served well for over 20 years. A few added voting sites addressed growth issues rather well. Now those voting sites are being turned into full featured TX/RX sites and even more are being added. None of which is cheap in terms of material or labor.

I question the cost effectiveness of this upgrade. I really do.

Particularly when there will be several more stages of having to reconfigure and reprogram virtually every radio in the whole system before it finally becomes a full fledged P25 Phase II system.

How much does the radio shop get to bill out when they have to reprogram all 12000-odd radios in the system to upgrade them to P25 phase 1, and then do it again to phase 2 about a year later?

I smell a rat. A rat called MONEY.
 
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