CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

History question guys. E4606. The last 2006 Engine to be auctioned off.

I was looking through some photos taken by the late Jason Low (may he continue to rest in peace) and I came across something interesting about E4606. This photo was taken in the early 2000's so it's SN at the time was P4606. The interesting part about this Engine was the decal and number it had. It read "ENGINE 3".
It's to my knowledge that Station 36 in Hidden Valley used to be numbered Station 3, but it was closed down for a bit. In 2008, Pump 36 became the 2nd Engine out of Station 2. Is this Engine 3 just supposed to be Engine 36 or is there something I'm missing?

I remembered hearing that 3 and 33 were training engines for a long time, as they were the demo rigs in all the training photos. Could have changed though.

 

[ENGINE_4]

The Hidden Valley Station was never closed. The snuffer truck (Special events unit) was the first truck in the station, then likely a spare and then P4606 became Engine 3. At the same time Engine 36 was E4908. When the numbers switched over P4606 became Engine 36 and E4908 became Engine "3" and then 6. CFD apparatus history is quite fun some times lol

 

[255-Jacobs]

Oh yeah. It was a headache for me to figure out the deal with Station 6 and 37 and what happened to Ladder 2 and Engine 1A. Apparatus history is never dull when it comes to the CFD.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I usually flip through the CFD Wiki page history, everything is there since the page was started in 2009 and everything is time stamped which is a huge help!

Edit: And going through allllll of the pages of this forum

 

[JABoomer]

Just saw that Pierce is offering their Ascendants without dual rear tires, and with rear wheel steering: TAK-4® Independent Rear Suspension System | Pierce Mfg

 

[255-Jacobs]

That's actually pretty awesome. It's like a Tiller without the Tiller. That would really benefit CFD Ladders in making tight turns in narrow areas such as Downtown or 30's district.

 

[RP201]

That's actually pretty awesome. It's like a Tiller without the Tiller. That would really benefit CFD Ladders in making tight turns in narrow areas such as Downtown or 30's district.

Toronto bought three mid mount Ladders in the late 90’s. They had these tag axles and were supposed to be the thing. The trucks spent a lot of time in the shops. It’s a great concept, and four wheel steering is making a comeback since it’s standard on the Rosy RX electric (with a diesel backup) engine.

I bet Pierce has this idea perfected!

Talking about electric Engines, has 7 put their environmentally conscious Engine into service?

 

[JABoomer]

Seems to be some debate about the traction performance of super single tires. The higher surface pressure should give you more traction - like an army truck - but a lot of semi operators say duals offer better performance. Would be interesting to see an all-wheel steer unit in a Calgary winter.

 

[JABoomer]

Was the CFD environment a lot different around 10 years ago when they purchased apparatus like the Command or Driver Training? Seems like they have become very practically focused while on a tight budget in recent years, and these units are now rarely used? I wonder do they regret buying them, or did they just have more budget to throw around on 'nice to haves' back then?

 

[RP201]

When you staff Rescues and Ladders with two, it can free up a lot of funds for capital projects like mobile Driver Training vehicles and fancy Command units.

The Driver Training system has the virtue of being unique and innovative, I’ve never seen or heard of something like that anywhere.

The Command is another thing all together, since each DC is a miniature Command vehicle, the larger Command vehicle seems redundant. I can see these rigs being useful at large events so the brass has a warm dry spot sit and command from.

I’m sure CFD doesn’t regret these purchases, but I doubt the mobile Drivers Trainer will be replaced when the current rig is put out to pasture.

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

When you staff Rescues and Ladders with two, it can free up a lot of funds for capital projects like mobile Driver Training vehicles and fancy Command units.

The Driver Training system has the virtue of being unique and innovative, I’ve never seen or heard of something like that anywhere.

The Command is another thing all together, since each DC is a miniature Command vehicle, the larger Command vehicle seems redundant. I can see these rigs being useful at large events so the brass has a warm dry spot sit and command from.

I’m sure CFD doesn’t regret these purchases, but I doubt the mobile Drivers Trainer will be replaced when the current rig is put out to pasture.

I would think that the Mobile Training truck is a bit regrettable, as it doesn't serve the purpose it needs too. Much of the money was spent on the in-truck simulations, which didn't serve their purpose. It wasn't realistic enough, it made some firefighters motion sick, and the graphics became quickly outdated. (As a person who's had the chance to try both, GTA 5 is much more realistic, just to give some perspective)

It's only practical use is actually driving the truck itself. But one has to wonder if a spare truck would achieve the exact same results. (Plus, the MT doesn't have water, which is the most valuable and teachable difference in driving fire trucks.

As for the Mobile Command, it absolutely serves a purpose, it is a required part of the CFD. Even though it's only run a handful of calls (I can think of 2) it is a big part of CFD ops. DC vans are great for operations where you need two or three people from one agency in command. Luckily, Calgary hasn't had any major events lately (knock on wood) so there hasn't been a need for such a unit.

The ability to run an independent dispatching and radio station, along with having a computer room to facilitate other agencies (Atco, Enmax, CalSAR, AHS, CEMA, CanTF2 etc) it makes sense to have a unit that can house delegates from those agencies under one roof. There are also some other perks of having that truck, but for the sake of this being a publicly accessible forum, I'll exclude for now.

I get there's a high interest in purchasing units that will consistently be required upon, but the fact of firefighting is to be ready with equipment for anything the city might throw at you. So in this case, having a truck like the MCU is an asset, not a cutback.

 

[RP201]

These Command Post vehicles are a vital component of a command structure or as my friend pointed out, a vital element to create a unified command. You need to use it to justify the cost. Most big departments, have protocols for deploying such a resource, say on third alarms or greater. Again, it depends on the crisis that’s going on. Is the third alarm a result of extra crews needed for relief? Can the truck even get close enough to the scene to be of use?

I’ve seen fires where all kinds of odd equipment is coming out of the woodwork, EMS buses, Command Posts, mechanics trucks, tow trucks, all sorts of EMS Supervisors. Many times I’ve watched excavators floated in and start tearing apart buildings that are burning away.

I imagine CFD uses the CP at big events, has it staged and staffed. Or do they?

 

[JABoomer]

since each DC is a miniature Command vehicle

DC vans are great for operations where you need two or three people from one agency in command.

What kind of command features do the chief vans have?

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

These Command Post vehicles are a vital component of a command structure or as my friend pointed out, a vital element to create a unified command. You need to use it to justify the cost. Most big departments, have protocols for deploying such a resource, say on third alarms or greater. Again, it depends on the crisis that’s going on. Is the third alarm a result of extra crews needed for relief? Can the truck even get close enough to the scene to be of use?

I’ve seen fires where all kinds of odd equipment is coming out of the woodwork, EMS buses, Command Posts, mechanics trucks, tow trucks, all sorts of EMS Supervisors. Many times I’ve watched excavators floated in and start tearing apart buildings that are burning away.

I imagine CFD uses the CP at big events, has it staged and staffed. Or do they?

They used it for the World Petroleum Conference last year. Had it staged and ran a mobile command team with it.

 

[RP201]

What is inside the DC vans?

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

What is inside the DC vans?

Really just a couple benches with a table and two monitors. Pretty basic in there, more of just a dry, warm, quiet spot to help run command.

 

[255-Jacobs]

Does anyone know if the explosion at the Las Americas Villas in the NE ever became a greater alarm situation? From what I've seen from previous situations of the same or similar magnitude, they've gone to 3rd or 4th. (But CFD never really announces that, but that's a whole different can of worms)

 

[RP201]

According to the Herald, the event was a 2 alarm response. Does anyone know the run down? Relief units probably pushed it up. Looks like three or four townhomes were destroyed.

 

[255-Jacobs]

I don't have a full rundown. I was listening to the archives on the scanner and my god it was hectic. There were calls coming from all over the area reporting fires, smoke, and explosions. There were about 4 simultaneous responses happening. Engine 12 happened to be mobile when they received a report of a structure fire and made they're way there. Upon arrival Engine 12 immediately requested a 2nd alarm. Since there were 4 calls opened up, Engine 12 only had 2 other rigs assigned on the MDT. Once dispatch got the address from Engine 12 the dispatcher closed up the other 3 and rerouted the other units to Engine 12. Based on what the dispatcher was saying it sounded he had every available rig in the NE he could get for the calls. Now CFD seems to never really transmit anything about a 2nd. Now this could be a political issue or a protocol thing because they mostly just special a greater alarm without transmitting it. Now in last night's case, every single truck in the NE was already heading there. I only heard one special call and that was for 2 more engines and 1 more ladder. Dispatch already reported he had multiple ladders assigned anyway.

Now this is the rundown I have based strictly on audio.

Engine 12
Engine 4
Engine 22
Engine 322
Engine 23
Engine 45
Engine 38
Engine 18
Rescue 23
HazMat 4
Ladder 12
Ladder 32

As you guys can see. A lot is missing. I would imagine Ladder 1 and Tower 31 came in on the 2nd alarm and special call. 18 most likely came in on the special call alongside Engine 38. I was still shocked to hear Engine 18 report to command.

Based on the magnitude of this incident Dispatch did something called isolation. This means he completely isolated the tac channels in use and dispatch on top of. Tac Bravo 1 was used as the Alpha side tac channel for EN22, EN4, EN23, and RS23 and an emergency tone was used to broadcast that. Bravo 3 was used as the main Tactical channel and Bravo 13 was isolated to use as the dispatch channel for the incident. In the interim, any other Northside unit used Bravo 14, the backup channel as the dispatch channel. A whole lot happened at this incident and I plan on listening to more the archives to gather more information. Until then, enjoy what I had to say, cheers lads!

 

[255-Jacobs]

Rundown for the Las Americas Explosion/2nd Alarm Fire.

04EN
12EN
312EN
18EN
22EN
322EN
23EN
38EN
45EN
01L
12L
32L
23RC
27RC
21TE
25TE
04HM
04AL
07FRP
DC1
DC5
DC6
BATT
02INV
03INV
06AUX

There it is boys. The big one. Now I know some of you guys are gonna look at this and think that's not a 2nd alarm. But nothing was ever transmitted above the 2nd other then the special calls. There were already so much units rolling in due to the multiple calls. Both Tenders were sent out as well but they were likely special called or came in on one of the 4 initial calls.