CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)
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Rig shake up huh? Can we see a secondary unit at 18 finally? This should be interesting to watch.
We might start seeing 3 and 2 responses on highrise alarms one day. 3 Engines and 2 Ladders. We might start looking like the U.S and start sending 3 Engines, 2 Ladders and one of the techs on workers just on the 1st alarm. This shake up should produce some interesting results that I'm dying to see.
We might start seeing 3 and 2 responses on highrise alarms one day. 3 Engines and 2 Ladders. We might start looking like the U.S and start sending 3 Engines, 2 Ladders and one of the techs on workers just on the 1st alarm. This shake up should produce some interesting results that I'm dying to see.
RP201
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A shake up is enviable. With the fleet being fully staffed, this will result in new levels of response to alarm calls. I expect CFD will go to a 2 & 1 response. Two Engines and a Ladder/Rescue. Once the six Rescues are replaced, they will switch things up again. They are probably going to spread things around.
Calgary_Fire_Filmer
Member
Alright! I’ve been away from this forum too long, haha! So here’s all I know, bear with me, it’s gonna be long.
1) Volterra is supposed to be delivered Q1 2024 and is rumoured for station.
2) With the influx of recruits, CFD is really trying to move to 4 man crews. L1 is usually staffed as a 4 man, and L6 is commonly too. All Ladders/Towers will see 4 man crews before Rescues, as Pierce designed them with the jump seats. R12 will be the first to showcase 4 man, followed by 39 and then 26/27. Trucks like 33,29,34 are last do to call volume.
3) There is a lot of thoughts about stacking halls (3+ rigs) The major cons are resources aren’t spread out. That way the initial alarm sometimes can take longer then if the trucks were split. Also, it’s hard for command if they get on scene for a working fire with a single Engine, and not only have to set everything up with a 4-5 man crew, but then have all their help coming at the same time.
This makes it super hard for command to delegate and assign roles. However, there are some major positives too. Stations like 34 or 8 are great because of positioning. Close proximity to major roads and close to a lot of single Engine districts.
Also, 8 specifically runs way more calls requiring secondary units then 29/33/15 etc. So to spread trucks around, you get that quick response. It doesn’t make sense to pull trucks out of a district just to have them respond as often. Over 90% of R33 calls are in 8's district or East.
It doesn’t make sense to put secondary rigs in community based, slow halls. Like in the NW, to put a Ladder at 42 or a Rescue at 35 etc. These halls don’t see enough action to warrant a second rig, and defiantly don’t have the quick response to major roads like 34 does.
4) The MRU is coming back expected Q1 2024. The debate is either send one to 22, 12, 2 or another at 1. Chiefs are leaning to 2 because 12 didn’t run as many calls they thought they would this year (Maybe because 45 stole them lol?) Personally, I think it should go to 12, and kick R12 out. (Maybe send 12 to 45.) But then there’s the other issue about Rescues. TR10 having a massive district on top of being the most busy rescue already. So who knows.
5) Nothing has been finalized, but a massive rig shift is coming. With the new recruits, new Ladder coming and the Rescues leaving soon. Stuff is gonna switch around. Personally, I think TW31/BB31 should go to 18, L34 to 40. I think 8 will (and should) get there full rollout back, because it is a strong hall for the 3+ rigs. Once new 3 opens, 48/L1 should move there, and maybe run an E/MRU/Rehab rig out of 1. L23 should move maybe to 11 or 16, and open up some space for 1 and 25 in that district.
6) Lastly, TRT is moving soon. The thought is to run 2 TR/TRS halls and 2 backup TR halls. So 2 (E/TR/TRS) and 2 (E/TR) halls. Stations rumoured are 16,17,33,22,4,30. So, they might pick and choose.
Thanks for bearing with me here. This is all I know now. Within the week I have a meeting with the Foreman at the shops and a person with the Fire Museum, along with chatting to a FF on the apparatus purchase committee. So by Friday, I should have a ton more info for you guys
1) Volterra is supposed to be delivered Q1 2024 and is rumoured for station.
2) With the influx of recruits, CFD is really trying to move to 4 man crews. L1 is usually staffed as a 4 man, and L6 is commonly too. All Ladders/Towers will see 4 man crews before Rescues, as Pierce designed them with the jump seats. R12 will be the first to showcase 4 man, followed by 39 and then 26/27. Trucks like 33,29,34 are last do to call volume.
3) There is a lot of thoughts about stacking halls (3+ rigs) The major cons are resources aren’t spread out. That way the initial alarm sometimes can take longer then if the trucks were split. Also, it’s hard for command if they get on scene for a working fire with a single Engine, and not only have to set everything up with a 4-5 man crew, but then have all their help coming at the same time.
This makes it super hard for command to delegate and assign roles. However, there are some major positives too. Stations like 34 or 8 are great because of positioning. Close proximity to major roads and close to a lot of single Engine districts.
Also, 8 specifically runs way more calls requiring secondary units then 29/33/15 etc. So to spread trucks around, you get that quick response. It doesn’t make sense to pull trucks out of a district just to have them respond as often. Over 90% of R33 calls are in 8's district or East.
It doesn’t make sense to put secondary rigs in community based, slow halls. Like in the NW, to put a Ladder at 42 or a Rescue at 35 etc. These halls don’t see enough action to warrant a second rig, and defiantly don’t have the quick response to major roads like 34 does.
4) The MRU is coming back expected Q1 2024. The debate is either send one to 22, 12, 2 or another at 1. Chiefs are leaning to 2 because 12 didn’t run as many calls they thought they would this year (Maybe because 45 stole them lol?) Personally, I think it should go to 12, and kick R12 out. (Maybe send 12 to 45.) But then there’s the other issue about Rescues. TR10 having a massive district on top of being the most busy rescue already. So who knows.
5) Nothing has been finalized, but a massive rig shift is coming. With the new recruits, new Ladder coming and the Rescues leaving soon. Stuff is gonna switch around. Personally, I think TW31/BB31 should go to 18, L34 to 40. I think 8 will (and should) get there full rollout back, because it is a strong hall for the 3+ rigs. Once new 3 opens, 48/L1 should move there, and maybe run an E/MRU/Rehab rig out of 1. L23 should move maybe to 11 or 16, and open up some space for 1 and 25 in that district.
6) Lastly, TRT is moving soon. The thought is to run 2 TR/TRS halls and 2 backup TR halls. So 2 (E/TR/TRS) and 2 (E/TR) halls. Stations rumoured are 16,17,33,22,4,30. So, they might pick and choose.
Thanks for bearing with me here. This is all I know now. Within the week I have a meeting with the Foreman at the shops and a person with the Fire Museum, along with chatting to a FF on the apparatus purchase committee. So by Friday, I should have a ton more info for you guys
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Looks like there is gonna be a whole lot happening next year. A second MRU will certainly make life easier at either halls mentioned. 2 would be pretty good for an MRU to return but 22 is also pretty busy. Moving the TRT will be something interesting to see. I'm guessing CFD wants to keep the main halls somewhat centralized like with 10 and 11. I can't wait to see these changes occur. 2024 might be the most interesting year for this forum.
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Thank you so much for this Calgary_Fire_Filmer!!
The Volterra Engine is rumored for station 5?
With TRT’s, based on your reply 11 station will probably get a Ladder back but do you know if the 2 extra Rescues and Engines will be TRT trained? Or just move the 4 current TRT crews around for the 4 TRT Rescues? If extra TRT/Engines are added that will mean 32 FF’s on each platoon that will be (should be) TRT trained 🤓
At least we know 4 Rescues will stay in service, each Ladders should be outfitted with auto extraction tools then
I need an education.
From what I witness, 90+% of alarm calls are not fires. So if I were in charge, alarm calls would get only a single Engine until it's confirmed that something is really going on. Of course, 911 calls or a verified alarm would get the full response. So how is fire response determined: law, industry standards, insurance requirements, internal policy?
Thanks.
From what I witness, 90+% of alarm calls are not fires. So if I were in charge, alarm calls would get only a single Engine until it's confirmed that something is really going on. Of course, 911 calls or a verified alarm would get the full response. So how is fire response determined: law, industry standards, insurance requirements, internal policy?
Thanks.
Calgary_Fire_Filmer
Member
Ya, so for CFD right now they are running 10 and 11 as full TRT halls. (E/TR/TRS) and have an 8-9 fully trained TRT crews. Same goes in the new plan. The difference would be converting 35/60 into Rescues. Right now CFD tries to send any TRT firefighters that aren’t at 10 or 11 to 35 and 60, and have them as last resort TRT engines if a major event comes in. In the future, I could see them moving those crews into a 4 ff Rescue, and then just leave the Engine as a usual regular firefighters Engine
Little bit of everything. CFD standard is Single Engine to Alpha/Bravo alarms. Engine/Rescue/Ladder/Engine (High Rise if downtown) to Charlie alarms. And then the full fire response for Delta/Echo (Structure Fires) This is to ensure the 12 person crews on scene, and meet the NFPA/Insurance requirements. It also allows CFD to have a bunch of help if it turns out. However, it rarely works like this. CAD's sometimes glitch or don't ping, GPS reroutes trucks, and both Captains and Dispatch can override the protocol assignment.
Sometimes there’s a single Engine going to a high rise, then with others there’s 5 trucks showing up to a house with a beeping detector. Personally, it should be single Engines for Rescue, and maybe a double Engine and Ladder or Engine Ladder Rescue or something for commercial/industrial alarms. That way there's lots of ff's to scan buildings and determine if there is smoke or fire.
RP201
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The insurance part is something buffs rarely get into. Insurance companies look at fire protection very differently than we do. Rescue trucks, Hazmat vehicles, Technical Rescues, POD trucks, DC's and really any support vehicles do not count when it comes to insurance industry standards. They only regard Engines and Ladders/Towers as fire fighting equipment. The more of that stuff, the lower insurance rates for that community.
Sending a single Engine to an alarm call is pretty reckless, unless it’s a known problem address, even that is risky. Every city is different, and every department has their own idea. With CFD going to 4 person crew on everything, I expect you will start seeing 2 Engines and a Ladder going to most alarms and residential calls, hospitals and other high risk locations may see 3 Engines and a Ladder. Once it’s determined what the situation is, dispatch will fill out the assignment as policy states.
When it comes to water rescues, tech rescues, hazardous materials jobs, different responses will apply.
Sending a single Engine to an alarm call is pretty reckless, unless it’s a known problem address, even that is risky. Every city is different, and every department has their own idea. With CFD going to 4 person crew on everything, I expect you will start seeing 2 Engines and a Ladder going to most alarms and residential calls, hospitals and other high risk locations may see 3 Engines and a Ladder. Once it’s determined what the situation is, dispatch will fill out the assignment as policy states.
When it comes to water rescues, tech rescues, hazardous materials jobs, different responses will apply.
Can you elaborate on what the alpha designations are?
You will get burnt (no pun intended) every so often, yes, and have to deal with the consequences. I'd be curious what percentage of automatic alarm call-outs turn out to be false, like I said, I'm assuming 90+% based on what I see downtown. If these nuisance alarms aren't causing dispatch issues for real emergencies, then no problem. If they are, and resourcing becomes an issue, I would think going down to a single Engine response may be warranted. Sounds like it's currently not a big deal in CFD.
RP201
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I believe this comes down to the very nature of a fire and rescue service. Residents, commercial, industrial and municipal clients if you will, pay for the protection. Despite statistics, I don’t think the fire service is allowed the latitude to decide not respond as per policy laid out by the brass.
In the event of call or response that CFD gets “burnt “ on could result in serious damage to CFD's confidence by the community and result in politicians having to explain and chiefs losing there jobs.
I remember a call about 10 years ago involving the Toronto Fire Service and Sick Kids Hospital in which a single Engine responded to an alarm at Sick Kids and when they arrived, they discovered an indoor Hydro vault rolling. They put in a working fire, and as the Platoon Chief was responding, he put in a third alarm. The result of this was a lot of embarrassing questions by the media. The initial crew knocked the fire down quickly. The higher alarm response was due to the amount of smoke in the hospital.
In the event of call or response that CFD gets “burnt “ on could result in serious damage to CFD's confidence by the community and result in politicians having to explain and chiefs losing there jobs.
I remember a call about 10 years ago involving the Toronto Fire Service and Sick Kids Hospital in which a single Engine responded to an alarm at Sick Kids and when they arrived, they discovered an indoor Hydro vault rolling. They put in a working fire, and as the Platoon Chief was responding, he put in a third alarm. The result of this was a lot of embarrassing questions by the media. The initial crew knocked the fire down quickly. The higher alarm response was due to the amount of smoke in the hospital.
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Like Calgary_Fire_Filmer said, there are class designations for alarm calls/ fire responses - Alpha through Echo. Alpha is the least worrisome, Echo is a high risk building or someone confirming a fire.
And like everyone else has said, response comes down to policy, insurance, and what the caller is saying while calling 911. But a base line fire alarm/call is 12 FF’s. In Calgary’s case right now that means sending 4 trucks, for now. If it’s a larger downtown building, industrial complex or hospital, etc.. more units are sent based on needs and the potential for people/victims at the scene.
Generally fire doesn’t kill people, it’s the smoke. More FF’s are needed to clear a building, overhaul and set up ventilation then just putting out the fire
Also too, some alarm calls are people pulling the pull station and running away, a faulty detector, gas leak, Carbon Monoxide alarm, a water flow alarm from a sprinkler being hit, a belt overheating causing smoke and so on… depending on what that call is. Sometimes it’s better to send the extra resources and cancel them later. That’s just the world we live in.
Also there is data about alarm calls and such in the yearly fire report
And like everyone else has said, response comes down to policy, insurance, and what the caller is saying while calling 911. But a base line fire alarm/call is 12 FF’s. In Calgary’s case right now that means sending 4 trucks, for now. If it’s a larger downtown building, industrial complex or hospital, etc.. more units are sent based on needs and the potential for people/victims at the scene.
Generally fire doesn’t kill people, it’s the smoke. More FF’s are needed to clear a building, overhaul and set up ventilation then just putting out the fire
Also too, some alarm calls are people pulling the pull station and running away, a faulty detector, gas leak, Carbon Monoxide alarm, a water flow alarm from a sprinkler being hit, a belt overheating causing smoke and so on… depending on what that call is. Sometimes it’s better to send the extra resources and cancel them later. That’s just the world we live in.
Also there is data about alarm calls and such in the yearly fire report
Calgary_Fire_Filmer
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Inglewood Station
Integrated Mixed Use Facility A public-private pilot project to deliver a priority inner city Fire Station within a mid-rise transit-oriented mixed use development.
engage.calgary.ca
Sure you guys have seen these already, 46/47 sure looks cool
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I have seen them yes, do you mean Stations 38 and 3? I am surprised Cornerstone (Station 38) will only be a 2 bay wide, 2 bay deep station.. But then again Station 32 is HUGE and AHS/CFD seem to want nothing to do with each other, especially with AHS North Command just north of the airport. The city (without purchasing more land) doesn't have a ton of land to build on in that part of the north east so really 38 should only ever need 2 bays it seems. Beautiful station design though, hopefully it will be built on time and opened by mid 2025
RP201
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I gather business owners of Inglewood are complaining about the loss of parking in the community. The proposed design will see a huge increase in number of local consumers and greatly improved fire protection.
Has anyone heard any talk or details on the proposed new Station 1?
Has anyone heard any talk or details on the proposed new Station 1?
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I think most people are complaining about the building in Inglewood lol. Personally I was confused and mistaken about where the new Station 1 was going. But I think the whole project has stalled. I don't see anything on-line about it and nothing is happening on Meredith Road where the new station is supposed to be located.. I wouldn't expect anything until 2026-2027 at this point
So was a second Pierce rear-mount stick delivered?
So was a second Pierce rear-mount stick delivered?
Calgary_Fire_Filmer
Member
Nope, it wasn’t. The shop guys said that the Volterra is coming around early April Though. Also, the Ford bodies are here! (Either for the new Boat Tows or FRPs) so that’s exciting too
The next 2 Ladders will likely be delivered sometime in March 2025? I cannot wait to see what the new Tenders look like and how they will be deployed!- Joined
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The new station designs look crazy. Station 3 really gives an FDNY vibe being built under apartments. Anyone have any thoughts on what will be staffed at 38 and 3 besides Engines? Also does anyone know the status on E4217? (18E's main) It's been a spare for a really long time now.
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I could see 38 and 3 getting a Ladder. With 38 it would depend on if 32 gets a Rescue and how/if/where a new permanent Station 27 plays out.
With regards to E4217, I don't remember anything about the incident. Do you have any pictures or info about the crash?
With regards to E4217, I don't remember anything about the incident. Do you have any pictures or info about the crash?
