Everything NYPD encryption.

medic9351301

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me lol your the one spreading a lot of pipe dreams. when people give you honest facts or their thoughts . you have to come back with off the wall comments. ok lets say if law suits are filled are you going to keep saying what if they do this or do that. you cant accpect the fact there might not never be a app to listen for the public with a delay. like i said before people always want something the can't have . i tend to agree with apx8000 . SCOTUS taking up a lawsuit that would be thrown out based upon standing. If you can show me any law that states that the public has a right to listen to police coms. i will never post a reply here.
 
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richee2000

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me lol your the one spreading a lot of pipe dreams. when people give you honest facts or their thoughts . you have to come back with off the wall comments. ok lets say if law suits are filled are you going to keep saying what if they do this or do that. you cant accpect the fact there might not never be a app to listen for the public with a delay. like i said before people always want something the can't have . i tend to agree with apx8000 . SCOTUS taking up a lawsuit that would be thrown out based upon standing. If you can show me any law that states that the public has a right to listen to police coms. i will never post a reply here

The NY Senate has drafted a bill requiring all PD dispatch Comms in the CLEAR. Stop wasting my time.
 

richee2000

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me lol your the one spreading a lot of pipe dreams. when people give you honest facts or their thoughts . you have to come back with off the wall comments. ok lets say if law suits are filled are you going to keep saying what if they do this or do that. you cant accpect the fact there might not never be a app to listen for the public with a delay. like i said before people always want something the can't have . i tend to agree with apx8000 . SCOTUS taking up a lawsuit that would be thrown out based upon standing. If you can show me any law that states that the public has a right to listen to police coms. i will never post a reply here.
 

TDR-94

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It's just that these types of articles always seem to try to convince readers that "this or that" is what's coming down the pipeline, when in reality it's just a proposal and nothing more.
 

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It is a proposed bill from a United States senator. There is no guarantee it will pass.
He's a State Senator, not a US Senator.

A similar bill was proposed in California, as mentioned on his statement, but it failed. It's been proposed again with a few modifications, and it's been shelved for another year with no action. No one expects it to pass because like many things politicians propose, it's not well thought out. It makes some assumptions that may look good to a senator, but to those that work in the field, it doesn't work and never will.
Even if it does pass, there are so many loopholes that it's never going to accomplish what it is trying to.

One issue that these proposals ignore is that there are federal rules regarding the handling of CJI/PII, and a state cannot just decide to ignore those. 10 minute delay doesn't fix the issue. Press does not get a free pass to have access to CJI/PII, no matter what they claim/think. Vetting is expensive, time consuming, and only applies to individuals. Once that individual leaves the TV station/newspaper, it all has to happen again for each individual. It also doesn't address what happens if the issued radio gets lost/stolen. Feeds are great, but who controls who has access, and who is listening in? Vetting sounds like a great solution to those that don't have to deal with the realities of it.

What the bill can propose is that for an agency with many channels/talkgroups, like NYC, that officers simply switch to an encrypted resource when they need to handle this sort of info.
That doesn't work for small agencies that only have one channel.
The other big challenge is that the federal rules regarding PII/CJI do not have a "whoops, sorry, we forgot" clause. For these sorts of proposals to work and still meet the federal rules, it has to work 100% of the time without failure. That means it needs to be made "officer/dispatcher proof" and the way to do that is to encrypt 100% of the traffic 100% of the time.

Based on what I've read about radios and NYPD ability to control their equipment and officers, that's not likely to happen. And I bet the department brass know that.

So, if the bill passes, if the law gets made, everyone rejoices.
Then the PD's, knowing their butts will be held accountable for CJI/PII, as mandated by the feds, just switch to using cell phones for all the important stuff. Then the scanner listeners/press/feed listeners get to hear nothing.

So, good luck with the senate bill. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. It's just not the slam dunk solution that people think it will be.


As for the "scanner listener hears radio traffic and saves the day" thing, that really isn't a good argument that will get far outside of the scanner listener websites. Agencies know that they have better ways of reaching a much larger section of the population with more targeted information. That ship sailed with the invention of the internet. Scanner listeners are not a big enough slice of the population to be much of a resource.
 

richee2000

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He's a State Senator, not a US Senator.

A similar bill was proposed in California, as mentioned on his statement, but it failed. It's been proposed again with a few modifications, and it's been shelved for another year with no action. No one expects it to pass because like many things politicians propose, it's not well thought out. It makes some assumptions that may look good to a senator, but to those that work in the field, it doesn't work and never will.
Even if it does pass, there are so many loopholes that it's never going to accomplish what it is trying to.

One issue that these proposals ignore is that there are federal rules regarding the handling of CJI/PII, and a state cannot just decide to ignore those. 10 minute delay doesn't fix the issue. Press does not get a free pass to have access to CJI/PII, no matter what they claim/think. Vetting is expensive, time consuming, and only applies to individuals. Once that individual leaves the TV station/newspaper, it all has to happen again for each individual. It also doesn't address what happens if the issued radio gets lost/stolen. Feeds are great, but who controls who has access, and who is listening in? Vetting sounds like a great solution to those that don't have to deal with the realities of it.

What the bill can propose is that for an agency with many channels/talkgroups, like NYC, that officers simply switch to an encrypted resource when they need to handle this sort of info.
That doesn't work for small agencies that only have one channel.
The other big challenge is that the federal rules regarding PII/CJI do not have a "whoops, sorry, we forgot" clause. For these sorts of proposals to work and still meet the federal rules, it has to work 100% of the time without failure. That means it needs to be made "officer/dispatcher proof" and the way to do that is to encrypt 100% of the traffic 100% of the time.

Based on what I've read about radios and NYPD ability to control their equipment and officers, that's not likely to happen. And I bet the department brass know that.

So, if the bill passes, if the law gets made, everyone rejoices.
Then the PD's, knowing their butts will be held accountable for CJI/PII, as mandated by the feds, just switch to using cell phones for all the important stuff. Then the scanner listeners/press/feed listeners get to hear nothing.

So, good luck with the senate bill. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. It's just not the slam dunk solution that people think it will be.


As for the "scanner listener hears radio traffic and saves the day" thing, that really isn't a good argument that will get far outside of the scanner listener websites. Agencies know that they have better ways of reaching a much larger section of the population with more targeted information. That ship sailed with the invention of the internet. Scanner listeners are not a big enough slice of the population to be much of a resource.
That's fine. We do not need the bill to proceed or become law. As previously noted Chicago Police department through the OEM has successfully launched Chicago Police department channels on the broadcastify app which are 100% encrypted, but available to the public totally in the clear with a 30 minute delay. This is totally acceptable for the Publics use, of course we would rather have instant access but for officer safety the 30-minute access in the clear is understandable, and a good compromiseScreenshot_20231127_051121_Messenger.jpg
 

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richee2000

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me lol your the one spreading a lot of pipe dreams. when people give you honest facts or their thoughts . you have to come back with off the wall comments. ok lets say if law suits are filled are you going to keep saying what if they do this or do that. you cant accpect the fact there might not never be a app to listen for the public with a delay. like i said before people always want something the can't have . i tend to agree with apx8000 . SCOTUS taking up a lawsuit that would be thrown out based upon standing. If you can show me any law that states that the public has a right to listen to police coms. i will never post a reply here.
No pipe dreams whatsoever. Chicago Police have successfully put their 100% encrypted dispatch channels on the broadcastify app, in the clear, so the public can hear what is going on in their neighborhoods with a 30 minute delay.
 

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richee2000

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It's just that these types of articles always seem to try to convince readers that "this or that" is what's coming down the pipeline, when in reality it's just a proposal and nothing more.

Lawsuits ? Under what part of the First Amendment does the press have a constitutional right to encrypted comms ??

SCOTUS taking up a lawsuit that would be thrown out based upon standing. Interesting.

I wouldn't call the majority of those legitimate, but I digress.
Chicago Police department offers their encrypted dispatch channels in the clear to the public on the broadcastify app, with a delay. This would be acceptable for the public.
 

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medic9351301

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Omg. we are not talking about chicago . we are talking about nypd.
with all these facts given you still do not want to accpect the cold hard truth. i am pretty sure if you use google you can find where this has been taken to court and lost. everytime someone says something you dont like you bring up they did it in chicago. Again we are not in chicago.

As i have said before it is the nypd choice to offer a delayed feed if they do it fine .If they dont oh well . I have a son in law thats a vetran officer and when comes by to eat , take a break and etc. his encp radio is on . and when they get a "hot call" ie homicide . almost 99.9 percent of the time they use thier cell phones to talk to supervisors and detectives .

All we are doing is trying to get you to understand the facts and the laws. and realize that just because a group of suits and community activists want a delayed feed does not mean its going to happen.
 

richee2000

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Medic9351301: It's obvious from your ranting that you are simply giving your totally uninformed opinion. That is fine you are entitled to your opinion however you are not entitled to your own facts. Just stop. There's been absolutely no outcome to the situation. It's all a work in progress. No one on here including you has the right to determine an outcome in advance. We are trying to make you understand this is a work in progress and you cannot determine the final result.
 
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richee2000

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Omg. we are not talking about chicago . we are talking about nypd.
with all these facts given you still do not want to accpect the cold hard truth. i am pretty sure if you use google you can find where this has been taken to court and lost. everytime someone says something you dont like you bring up they did it in chicago. Again we are not in chicago.

As i have said before it is the nypd choice to offer a delayed feed if they do it fine .If they dont oh well . I have a son in law thats a vetran officer and when comes by to eat , take a break and etc. his encp radio is on . and when they get a "hot call" ie homicide . almost 99.9 percent of the time they use thier cell phones to talk to supervisors and detectives .

All we are doing is trying to get you to understand the facts and the laws. and realize that just because a group of suits and community activists want a delayed feed does not mean its going to happen.
NYPD Chief Beltran made a statement that they are using other municipalities experiences to determine what to do about the problem of encryption to the public and the press. They will be using Chicago as a study. Apparently you are uninformed as to most of the facts. We are trying to get you to understand reality here.
 

W1KNE

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Medic9351301: It's obvious from your ranting that you are simply giving your totally uninformed opinion. That is fine you are entitled to your opinion however you are not entitled to your own facts. Just stop. There's been absolutely no outcome to the situation. It's all a work in progress. No one on here including you has the right to determine an outcome in advance. We are trying to make you understand this is a work in progress and you cannot determine the final result.
Richiee, his opinion is actually quite informed. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours, doesn't mean you need to talk down to them. If you look back over the last 5 days, you have posted close to 40 posts whining about this subject, many of which you've talked down to the person who disagrees with you. Give it a rest, please. You've made your point and are now lowering yourself to personal attacks. We get it, you don't want encryption, point made. Move on.

@KevinC maybe it's time to rethink having this thread stay open.
 

medic9351301

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again a deputy cheif can make all the recomendations he wants. does not mean its going to happen.
you are the one thats hoping for a feed . mmckenna told you how the bill in california failed to pass and what doj states.
dont you think if the wanted to provied a feed they would have all ready had plans to do it.
and yes i have read everything that has been posted regarding this here and on google.

You have your thoughts and i have my thoughts. this is a open fourm to discuss the issue here.
I will continue to make my arugements. You sir just dont want to accpect there is a chance there might not be a feed.
Just because it worked somewhere else does not mean its going to work there .

 

richee2000

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Richiee, his opinion is actually quite informed. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours, doesn't mean you need to talk down to them. If you look back over the last 5 days, you have posted close to 40 posts whining about this subject, many of which you've talked down to the person who disagrees with you. Give it a rest, please. You've made your point and are now lowering yourself to personal attacks. We get it, you don't want encryption, point made. Move on.

@KevinC maybe it's time to rethink having this thread stay open.
It's interesting that he has used continuous personal attacks against me including calling me an inbred, stupid, and other expletives and you have said nothing. You just attacked me. I continue to answer anyone who challenges me respectfully. However if I am personally attacked I reserve the right to personally attack back I think that's only fair.... I would request that you go back and review the attacks which were unprofessional and very personal coming from others.... Before coming to the conclusion that I am the one who attacks. I continue to be careful about making sure I do not violate any rules and regulations of this group... If an administrator tells me I am violating any rules and regulations I will be more than happy to adjust my input.....
 
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richee2000

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again a deputy cheif can make all the recomendations he wants. does not mean its going to happen.
you are the one thats hoping for a feed . mmckenna told you how the bill in california failed to pass and what doj states.
dont you think if the wanted to provied a feed they would have all ready had plans to do it.
and yes i have read everything that has been posted regarding this here and on google.

You have your thoughts and i have my thoughts. this is a open fourm to discuss the issue here.
I will continue to make my arugements. You sir just dont want to accpect there is a chance there might not be a feed.
Just because it worked somewhere else does not mean its going to work there .

Sorry but you will not silence me. I have every right to give my opinion as well as factual information as you do. I am still waiting for my apologies from you for your expletives and disrespectful behavior calling me an inbred and calling me stupid and a small man... You have no right to be disrespectful on here. No one on here is using that kind of language in personal attacks and disrespect but you....No one on here is using that kind of language in personal attacks and disrespect but you. I continue to be careful not to be disrespectful not to use any expletives and not to breach any rules and regulations of this group. This specific blog was set up a specifically for rants and raves about encryption NYPD....
 
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medic9351301

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richee2000:
The fact of the matter is that when someone tells you facts you want to debate them .
When we ask direct questions you dont answer them. I have asked you many times what is going to happen if a feed is not provided .
You answer is always like they did it in chicago. You seem to think just because they did it in chicago its going to be the same in new york .
Every comment you make there are facts that goes agst. it. It seems like you cant accpect the fact that you might be wrong on some things.
Again i will say i dont like encp. but there is nothing i can do about it. Its something your going to have to accpect.
 

richee2000

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richee2000:
The fact of the matter is that when someone tells you facts you want to debate them .
When we ask direct questions you dont answer them. I have asked you many times what is going to happen if a feed is not provided .
You answer is always like they did it in chicago. You seem to think just because they did it in chicago its going to be the same in new york .
Every comment you make there are facts that goes agst. it. It seems like you cant accpect the fact that you might be wrong on some things.
Again i will say i dont like encp. but there is nothing i can do about it. Its something your going to have to accpect.
Honestly you're acting like my therapist. It's time to start respecting my opinion and stop fighting me all the time. I don't tell you how to think or what to do I would appreciate it if you stop trying to control me. Because I will continue to press forward both legally and through legislative means to accomplish our goals, to make NYPD dispatch transparent to both the press and the public. Please reframe from continuing to tell me what to accept and what not to accept. How about we give this a rest and let other people chime in with their two cents rather than take up all of this time?
 
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