LMRN General Discussion

[gary123]

The whole idea about logging is to build up a map of who is on the system (TG/users). How its constructed (sites/roaming). What radios are active for each user (RID). Even at 100% encryption knowing that TG 1 is xxxx and that RID 1234 is assigned to xxxx will give a overview on whats happening. A normally quiet TG that suddenly gets active at the same time a local FD is active lets you know that the fire may be bigger than thought or that maybe there is something more to it.

Think of it this way. The same reason you read all the posts here is to keep informed on whats active radio wise. Logging users is the same thing.

 

[Thatsclear]

Is there some advantage we can get by doing this? Can we pre-empt the system before it is implemented? Am I allowed to ask the second question?

Because as humans we are curious little creatures. I am at least. Even if I can't "monitor" as in hear what is being said, I still want to know what is going on with the technical aspect of the system. IE: TG's, RID etc. If you aren't interested in this technical detail, that is fine. But we are.

What is the harm in knowledge?

 

[exkalibur]

Why identify encrypted groups and radio IDs? Well for one, it helps to see what kind of activity is on the system. But, it also can provide clues to new talkgroups that aren't encrypted, based on what Radio IDs are seen. For example, there's a TG on a system local to me that isn't encrypted but has had a lot of radio IDs are are otherwise encrypted on the system. Helped identify who the users are.

Plus, using things like Key IDs, you can group talkgroups & radios together sometimes. For example, the regular "OPS" channels are likely to use a different KID than intelligence, or VIP, or whatever. Can we listen? No, but it's nice to get a picture of what's going on.

 

[bigcam406]

Looking at radio id's, and talkgroups without voice still doesnt tell a story of what is actually happening at that exact moment. It has been already stated in the original press release that this system will have encryption for OPP, MOH , MNR and MTO, so whats the use? Sounds about as much fun as Facebook.

 

[ATCTech]

Allow me to be the first to offer $0.03 on the dollar for all the $1000 scanners that will be available to the highest bidder by years-end. Taxis, tow trucks, gravel trucks and garbage collection isn't going to cut it for 99% of owners.

 

[bigcam406]

Allow me to be the first to offer $0.03 on the dollar for all the $1000 scanners that will be available to the highest bidder by years-end. Taxis, tow trucks, gravel trucks and garbage collection isn't going to cut it for 99% of owners.

Agreed

 

[ATCTech]

To be serious though, I think the current interest lays primarily in the discovery of new on-air signals and so forth despite the underlying reality that at the end of the day it's not going to be a monitorable system.

Once that interest level piques as most of the new sites go live and the ability to cross-check old versus new activity ceases, there will be little to no value in sitting in front of a "deaf" (due to the "Big E" word) $1000 radio for folks living where FleetNet has been their sole to at minimum primary source of radio entertainment for years.

Unlike how 'devastating' the changeover from plain old analog repeaters to trunking then digitized audio trunking seemed in the 1980s and 1990s, "E" digital is not something that's going to be circumvented by any consumer grade, mass-market product, that's a given.

 

[Saint]

Allow me to be the first to offer $0.03 on the dollar for all the $1000 scanners that will be available to the highest bidder by years-end. Taxis, tow trucks, gravel trucks and garbage collection isn't going to cut it for 99% of owners.

Just sold My SDS100 scanner for many reasons, only had it for a year and that was enough.
Steve

 

[webstar22]

This is why SDR right now is a good solution for anyone wanting to get into it. Cheap to setup, run and toss in a desk drawer later.

 

[gary123]

Me, I'll hold on to my hardware. I might try and pick up some used stuff like a SDS200 if the price is right. But for me knowing what's active and who is active is valuable info even if its just a set of RIDs and TG that the rids seem to match.

For many of us hardcore (addicted LOL) members here some information is better than no information.

 

[bigcam406]

I'm keeping my gear as I enjoy listening to the stuff from the US during summer tropo events.

 

[hotpocket]

Is there some advantage we can get by doing this?

It can also give us some idea of how far along they are in implementing the switchover.

 

[SKaiserling]

I still have local stuff to me. I will miss hearing about my cousin on the Orillia TG as the OPP talk about his drug charges, and getting instant reports about road conditions. I, for one, will be writing about my concerns to my local MPP.

 

[bcradio]

Our region just migrated from a VHF Smartzone system to a new P25 VHF/700 system, and I feel your pain.

Just heads up on how it happened here...

Shortly after the first 700 MHz control channels started transmitting signals, the old Astro Spectras, MCS2000, XTS3/5000 and MTS2000's stated getting replaced by the newer APX mobiles and portables. These were still being used on the old VHF Smartzone system, just the subscriber's hardware was being swapped out.

Once the system was mostly up and running (still a few sites yet to take to the air), we started hearing / seeing simulcast of the VHF system onto the new system. I'm not sure how exactly it was set up, but there were unique radios IDs that appeared on the new P25 talkgroups that re-broadcast the old VHF system on it. The new talkgroups on the new system were unencrypted, and it made identifying the new talkgroups pretty straight forward.

More and more agencies began to appear on the new system, but still being simulcast from the Smartzone one.

Then, one by one, each agency started cutting over to the new system. It began a few radios at a time. When the a radio on the new system started using, one of those unique radio IDs appeared on the old system, rebroadcasting the new onto the old.

This went on until the everyone got onto the new system, then the VHF rebroadcasts started to end.

The good news? The new P25 system remained unencrypted for over a year as the VHF Smartzone system was slowly shut down and their frequencies re-tooled into the new one.

Not too long ago, and started with one agency at a time, you'd hear a call for someone to head back to HQ to get their radio "reprogrammed". And about a week after that, that agency went silent.

It's my understanding that 100% of our new system will eventually be encrypted, including mutual aid, emergency program and others...

Now, I'm not saying this is how your cut over will go, but it's how it happened here.

 

[gary123]

Nice post. That is the general way that most migrations happen.

I suspect that LMRN will be a bit different as each service has their own schedule and priority. I expect OPP to be the first to switch over on the current active sites. Once they have migrated then either other sites will be added and OPP will continue the migration until 'zone 1' is completed.

I suspect other services (EMS) will have the radios changed out and then once most are switched out they will do a fast change over from FleetNet to LMRN.

 

[jasoyeom]

I presume they will have to be careful about switching in the new radios in the cruisers and ambulances. They won't be able to go far from the only transmitter site that is setup for the new radios. Unless they do more than one tower site at a time.

 

[gary123]

That's why the 3 sites are active .

 

[exkalibur]

I presume they will have to be careful about switching in the new radios in the cruisers and ambulances. They won't be able to go far from the only transmitter site that is setup for the new radios. Unless they do more than one tower site at a time.

Both systems can exist at the same time with patches in place between the systems, so cut-over can happen at whatever pace the radio shop can do it at. This is how Toronto, Peel, York, London etc did it and I suspect how OPP-et-al will do it.

 

[Muxlow]

Might take a long time out in Windsor. The shop that has the contract has two guys to do installs. BMR requested they hire about 20-30 guys. Think they are just going to contract out to the other local companies in the area to get the Spectra/MCS 2000's out and the APX radios in.

 

[gary123]

Change over can also be done via OTAP but lets not get all worried over that possibility. I expect as stated a radio change out with patched TGs.