LMRN General Discussion

[Jradioptbo]

I am monitoring FleetNet from Peterborough area and like everyone else, awaiting new control channels , talkgroups, simulcasts on the new PSRN.

Is it a possibility that they may use the alternate control channel frequency of FleetNet as a main control channel for PSRN for the switch over? Then I could actively log new talkgroups that are mapped on the system and compare them to current talkgroups for identity. I am assuming FleetNet will simulcast LMRN , until full switchover is completed across the province. This is a true full P25 system, LMRN.

 

[hotpocket]

So just to clarify maybe someone can answer a few things

1. BEAT repeaters will be switching from analog to digital?
2. Will police inter-ops (like 1PC LPS) be going encrypted?
3. Will MTO Maintenance be going encrypted as well? What about MTO Enforcement?

 

[mikewazowski]

All we really know for sure is yes, the BEAT repeaters will be digital (and encrypted). There's really no point in encrypting if you're going to leave the BEAT repeaters and vehicular repeaters analog and unencrypted.

 

[Muxlow]

Vehicle repeaters and BEAT will be moved from the 414's into the 771 MHz and will be encrypted. One of our radio sites in Leamington that currently has the Leamington BEAT has had a new 7/800 MHz antenna installed.

Any talkgroups on LMRN apparently will be encrypted. OPP, MTO Enforcement, EMS, Ministry of Finance, Ministry of National Resource, any police patch groups.

Only thing I'm not sure of is the Maintenance guys. Haven't heard if they are staying on the system or getting moved off to either the DMR or NXDN networks

 

[gary123]

A lot is not known yet but some of the questions can be guessed at based on what little is known.

First don't panic what ever is going to happen will happen, none of us will have any say in that.

1: All the BEAT freq will be obsolete and will be replaced with 700/800 local repeaters. These will either repeat the local TG or have their own TG assigned. Basically just like they are now just on new freq and yes, encrypted.

2: It's a safe bet yes they will be encrypted.

3; MTO Enforcement will remain digital it's unknown if they will be encrypted. Everything on LMRN will be digital (P25 Phase II). Expect MOT operations to be P25. I highly doubt they will be encrypted. UNLESS everything on LMRN is encrypted. This is all about budgets for the Depts.

 

[Enjoi19]

3; MTO enforcement will remain digital its unknown if they will be encrypted. Everything on PSRN will be digital (P25 Phase II). Expect MOT operations to be P25 I highly doubt they will be encrypted. UNLESS everything on PSRN is encrypted. This is all about budgets for the Depts.

MTO Enforcement comes off the same dispatch channels as the OPP - so I would assume it's encrypted as well. At least for the GTA.

 

[gary123]

Could be the trucking industry and other people who fall under MTO direct enforcement may have deep pockets. Encrypting would close the potential door of monitoring to avoid enforcement.

 

[2Dis]

Within the context of this system... anyone mind elaborating on encryption of patch channels? I'm confused on how that would work... (e.g. a patch between OPP on LMRN with one of the Interop channels). Would that not require radios from both systems to have the same keys? In a broader scope, how could any interop be encrypted? (e.g. DRPS interop with YRP/TPS).

Disclaimer: merely an educational post...not arguing for/against ENC.

 

[Muxlow]

Nope. It doesn't matter. It's just like OPP talking to Chatham-Kent Police.

OPP is VHF P25, CK Police is 800 MHz ProVoice but switch to an analog talkgroup on their system. OPP-Windsor Police. Same deal but Windsor is P25 encrypted. The patch group sorta lets the encryption pass one way.

So if you listen on the Windsor system you wouldn't hear Windsor Police. But if you listen on the OPP side of things you'd hear the audio from both sides

 

[Forts]

Patches with encryption are common place already. In the very simplest of terms a radio from each system is connected to each other (the output of one radio feeds the mic input of the other and vice versa). Each radio (if encrypted) is keyed for it's respective system/talkgroup. The encryption part of it is essentially transparent.

 

[2Dis]

Gotcha. Thank you both!

 

[ve3lfs]

Can confirm the MTO Maintenance will be on the LMRN still. We have a sign posted in one of our yards for the installers that says "New LMRN radio location" It got put up late last summer. So I know it's coming just not 100% sure when and if it will be encrypted or straight P25 or what.

 

[enginerd314159]

Just curious, if everything will be encrypted after the changeover, why do we care so much about logging info?

 

[Forts]

Because we are a curious bunch and like to look at things like this as part of a puzzle?

 

[enginerd314159]

You do realize that nothing you do will change things, right? No one is going to feel bad for you and change their mind on encryption.

 

[Forts]

Never said I was looking to change things or have anyone feel bad for me. I'm far from new in this hobby, I understand how and why things happen.

 

[enginerd314159]

Fair enough. I just compare the situation to a blind person trying to piece together a jigsaw puzzle they have no chance of ever seeing.

 

[mikewazowski]

Just curious, if everything will be encrypted after the changeover, why do we care so much about logging info?

What is your source for "everything will be encrypted"?

Have you spoken with BMR or GMCB??

 

[enginerd314159]

By everything I meant everything government/pretty much everything on FleetNet currently. I should have been more specific, my apologies for that. I've just been lurking and that is what I've surmised. I'm slowly getting away from public safety monitoring anyway myself. I do understand the fact that you guys like to figure things out, and to a degree I am the same way. I just feel like there's something I must be missing if you guys want to track it that badly already knowing what the 'end game' holds.

Is there some advantage we can get by doing this? Can we pre-empt the system before it is implemented? Am I allowed to ask the second question?

 

[jasoyeom]

Is there a dis-advantage of doing this? Not all systems may go encrypted.