Mid-Atlantic MilAir 2024

[MUTNAV]

Yes - controller on 127.700 notified Cosmic of opposite direction F16 traffic (the Makos)

Sometimes lessons learned the hard way get forgotten with time. If this is opposite direction traffic the way I'm thinking.

Green Ramp disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An ATC guy I spoke with after the accident squarely pointed out opposite direction traffic was most at fault for causing the accident, and the AF prohibited it for awhile because of the dangers involved.

Another (less relevant) example.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/after-reagan-national-airport-close-call-faa-bans-opposite-direction-traffic-flow/2012/08/07/b2191a6c-e0c1-11e1-a19c-fcfa365396c8_story.html

Thanks
Joel

 

[TerryPavlick]

Sometimes lessons learned the hard way get forgotten with time. If this is opposite direction traffic the way I'm thinking.

Green Ramp disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An ATC guy I spoke with after the accident squarely pointed out opposite direction traffic was most at fault for causing the accident, and the AF prohibited it for awhile because of the dangers involved.

Another (less relevant) example.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/after-reagan-national-airport-close-call-faa-bans-opposite-direction-traffic-flow/2012/08/07/b2191a6c-e0c1-11e1-a19c-fcfa365396c8_story.html

Thanks
Joel

Yeah I think the separation was a lot more than those incidents. Not sure on the altitude separation. Would need to go back and listen to the audio.

 

[HM1529]

POTUS to DANG on AF1, then M1 to Valley Forge Landing Zone, Pennsylvania. Departure back to DANG lists Wings Field Landing Zone, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for departure, unsure if these are two different locations.

View attachment 154219

Wings Field (KLOM) is an airport close to his second stop on Friday...close than driving back to Valley Forge. I suppose they helos will hop over there from the park once he is traveling from Valley Forge to the Montgomery County Community College.

 

[Mark]

Yep can hear them now here in NJ

Added their Air / Air 284.100 to my on line feed here from NJ

Odd time of year to be training up here.Usually units up North head down that way in the Winter to train.
Maybe the 482nd FW has a deployment coming up soon? Besides the 93rd FS they also have the 367th FS contingent who are full time active F-16 crews.
Seems the 93rd FS last deployed in Dec 2020.

F-16s Of The Florida "Makos" Make Stopover In Spain On Their Way To Deployment

The F-16s of the 93rd Fighter Squadron "Makos" are believed to be deploying to the CENTCOM area of operations. On Dec. 28, 2020, six F-16s belonging to

theaviationist.com

CFC-1 CL-60 coming back North from Jamaica.. Guess Canada Prime Min winter vacation is over.
Followed by CFC-3810 another CL-60 assume support aircraft.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Wings Field (KLOM) is an airport close to his second stop on Friday...close than driving back to Valley Forge. I suppose they helos will hop over there from the park once he is traveling from Valley Forge to the Montgomery County Community College.

What second stop? It only shows the campaign event between arrival at Valley Forge and departure from LOM, MCCC is not on the schedule.

 

[TerryPavlick]

What second stop? It only shows the campaign event between arrival at Valley Forge and departure from LOM, MCCC is not on the schedule.

is there two stops based on this.....Valley Forge for an event at 1:30 then something after 3PM ? Long time between 1:20 and 3:15...it is a fair distance between Valley Forge Park and Wings Field so there must be something else after a speech at Valley Forge.

1:20 PM THE PRESIDENT and THE FIRST LADY arrive in the Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania
Valley Forge Landing Zone, Pennsylvania
Out-of-Town Pool
3:15 PM THE PRESIDENT delivers remarks at a campaign event; THE FIRST LADY attends
Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania

Found it.....weather related change

 

[RaleighGuy]

is there two stops based on this.....Valley Forge for an event at 1:30 then something after 3PM ? Long time between 1:20 and 3:15...it is a fair distance between Valley Forge Park and Wings Field so there must be something else after a speech at Valley Forge.

1:20 PM THE PRESIDENT and THE FIRST LADY arrive in the Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania
Valley Forge Landing Zone, Pennsylvania
Out-of-Town Pool
3:15 PM THE PRESIDENT delivers remarks at a campaign event; THE FIRST LADY attends
Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania

One would think, but there is nothing on the official public schedule released and I posted

 

[Mark]

One would think, but there is nothing on the official public schedule released and I posted

View attachment 154227

Maybe a private fund raiser somewhere? They usually don't advertise them..

The 3rd anniversary of the Insurrection? Ok call it what you will.. LOL
Seemed like unarmed riot to me but whatever.. Terminology these days seem to be in the eyes of the Pols/Press.

 

[TerryPavlick]

One would think, but there is nothing on the official public schedule released and I posted

View attachment 154227

Yeah I see that but seems like a long time to spend just at Valley Forge Park - so maybe you have to read in between the lines on this one.
The paragraph with "In the afternoon" makes it look like two stops. eg. I will arrive at Valley Forge Park at 1 PM and then in the afternoon I will be speaking at a campaign event.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Maybe a private fund raiser somewhere? They usually don't advertise them..

Most of the time they aren't advertised, but are listed on the schedule. Only OTR events (church, visit to son's grave, etc) are left off the schedule. I can not see a community college visit being an OTR stop.

 

[TerryPavlick]

Maybe a private fund raiser somewhere? They usually don't advertise them..

Which Montgomery County Community College would be a good location (space wise) considering the income level in the area.

Now this line from January 3rd changes the process thinking

Jan 3 (Reuters) - President Joe Biden will mark the third anniversary of the Jan. 6 attacks on the U.S Capitol with a political speech the day before to make the case that Republican Donald Trump poses an existential threat to democracy, Biden's re-election campaign said on Wednesday.

Biden's campaign said he will speak near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, where George Washington established headquarters during the Revolutionary War. The speech site, Montgomery County Community College, is about 15 miles away.

or this from FOX29 Philadelphia website



This is probably the Valley Forge Landing Zone

Flying Field description and directions to facilities. - Valley Forge Signal Seekers

vfss.clubexpress.com

measures 450 feet by 150 feet

 

[RaleighGuy]

is there two stops based on this.....Valley Forge for an event at 1:30 then something after 3PM ? Long time between 1:20 and 3:15...it is a fair distance between Valley Forge Park and Wings Field so there must be something else after a speech at Valley Forge.

1:20 PM THE PRESIDENT and THE FIRST LADY arrive in the Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania
Valley Forge Landing Zone, Pennsylvania
Out-of-Town Pool
3:15 PM THE PRESIDENT delivers remarks at a campaign event; THE FIRST LADY attends
Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania

Found it.....weather related change

View attachment 154226

Exactly my point, if they released it why was it left off the schedule. IDK we will see, that is a good bet though.

 

[TerryPavlick]

Exactly my point, if they released it why was it left off the schedule. IDK we will see, that is a good bet though.

Might just be the weather uncertainity snow versus just rain...might be making the planning a bit difficult (air operations wise)

 

[HM1529]

Maybe a private fund raiser somewhere? They usually don't advertise them..

The 3rd anniversary of the Insurrection? Ok call it what you will.. LOL
Seemed like unarmed riot to me but whatever.. Terminology these days seem to be in the eyes of the Pols/Press.

The dictionary definition of insurrection says nothing about whether people were armed. It has to do with violence targeted against a government. There was plenty of violence. And, I recall seeing armed people. You don't need a gun to be considered armed. I think flagpoles and fire extinguishers would count as weapons if someone bashed you over the head with one, no?

in·sur·rec·tion
/ˌinsəˈrekSH(ə)n/
noun

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

 

[TerryPavlick]

Okay gentlemen we are talking about the schedule not what the schedule is about or the speeches. Lets try to stay on topic - we all have opinions about everything. When I was growing up you found out what happened in the country and the world in the 30 minutes before Walter Cronkite said "And that's the way it is Thursday January 4th 2024".

 

[freqhopping]

Getting early reports of an Ellsworth B-1B down with the crew ejecting safely.

 

[HM1529]

You mean like when rioters targeted the White House with Potus inside and many USSS guys were injured
and they burned the old church across the street. I recall some media laughing as Potus was forced to go to
safe zone in WH basement..
Yeah you got a friend in Pennsylvania.. Keep em there.

I believe Terry asked that we stay on target here and I'll respect that request as he and I have traded quite a bit of info over the years. My apologies for even responding in the first place.

 

[Mark]

I believe Terry asked that we stay on target here and I'll respect that request as he and I have traded quite a bit of info over the years. My apologies for even responding in the first place.

Removed my post.. sorry..

 

[RaleighGuy]

Getting early reports of an Ellsworth B-1B down with the crew ejecting safely.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743094610287538491

 

[MUTNAV]

Yeah I think the separation was a lot more than those incidents. Not sure on the altitude separation. Would need to go back and listen to the audio.

That was the original lesson, the separation at Pope ended up being 0. Taking off and landing from/to the same side of the airport, when really thought about, didn't turn out to be a good idea. But it was brought back due to convenience.

I realize we do a lot of things for convenience, I guess we can just wait to see if it's a recurring bad idea or not.

Thanks
Joel