New State P25 system online!

[Thunderbolt]

As of this writing, it's still a mystery as to why you have to look in two different places to see the same system ...

This is because of the database matrix here on radioreference.com. Since older Motorola 3600 baud, and the new P25 trunking systems handle talkgroups differently, and there are certain parameters that have to be followed when entering the data into the database. For instance, a Motorola TRS has talkgroups that are divisible by a factor of 16 or 32. However, this is not the case with Project 25 trunking systems, as they add their talkgroups in sequential order by a factor of one. To combine both systems into one page would cause total chaos, and there would be all sorts of internal errors, and we would not want to crash and burn.

Since the new P25 system will eventually replace the old Motorola TRS, the old page will be deprecated when the changeover in completed, and there will be only one OKWIN listing. At this time, the new P25 (9600 baud) TRS is in its initial phase of deployment, and we really don't know how had the old system will be converted over to the new technology. Any insight would be very helpful.


73s

Ron

 

[Freqed]

I am hearing that Muskogee Troop C disptach is reporting a severe echo between the State System and the OKWIN system, has a radio tech there trying to figure it out. While talking to a unit in the field on State ID 42416 she was asking if the unit was on 800 Turnpike or 800 County, I didn't hear a response.....

 

[plaws]

The State of Oklahoma 800 System should be renamed to the Oklahoma Wireless Interoperability Network (OKWIN) Does everyone agree? Oklahoma Office of Homeland Security - Oklahoma Wireless Information Network (OKWIN)

Since that's what it is, yes. My bookmark for the system has had that label since someone posted the URL to the OKWIN site a year or so ago.

And the Muskogee P25 site is in OKWIN, so it should be listed with the others since it's part of the same system.

 

[plaws]

This is because of the database matrix here on radioreference.com. Since older Motorola 3600 baud, and the new P25 trunking systems handle talkgroups differently, and there are certain parameters that have to be followed when entering the data into the database. For instance, a Motorola TRS has talkgroups that are divisible by a factor of 16 or 32. However, this is not the case with Project 25 trunking systems, as they add their talkgroups in sequential order by a factor of one. To combine both systems into one page would cause total chaos, and there would be all sorts of internal errors, and we would not want to crash and burn.

The talkgroups are the same between the Muskogee P25 site and the rest of the system - look at the hexadecimal. Hex is closer to what is actually programmed into real radios not scanners.

Uniden, or whoever had the first trunk tracker, misidentified the 4 status bits after the talkgroup ID. That has lead to all kinds of confusion in the hobby world.

Again, look at the hex - it's the same.

In fact, if you have a newer Uniden radio, you can go all turbogeeky and use only the hex TGIDs whether the system is P25 or "Motorola" or whatever.

 

[peterjmag]

Hearing Muskogee EMS on the Tulsa site in analog. It sounds like some of the mobiles are digital sounding and garbled like a digital transmisson. It sounds like the new systems are compatible between on another and are not different. The TG is 30576

 

[plaws]

Hearing Muskogee EMS on the Tulsa site in analog. It sounds like some of the mobiles are digital sounding and garbled like a digital transmisson. It sounds like the new systems are compatible between on another and are not different. The TG is 30576

My vote, too.

The problem is, of course, how Uniden radios render the TGID. For non-P25 systems, they still include the 4 status bits, making the ID look different than the P25 even though all 4 bits are set to zero.

Muskogee PD is TG 721 in hex -- usually noted as 0x721 or 721h in non-radio contexts -- but is either "1825" on a Uniden radio set to P25 or "29200" on a Uniden set to a non-P25 system. The ID is the same, the display format is different.

The Powers That Be on RR need to modify the DB to show a third column for TGIDs. Hex, decimal, and Uniden, the latter having the 4 bits of padding before conversion to decimal.

One big system. I don't even believe it's "Phase II" as the DBA has named it.

 

[ericcarlson]

There are correctly two OKWIN systems in the RR database. This is per our standard policy and in no small part due to the fact that they are two different trunked system protocols requiring different scanner programming to monitor them. They may act as one system because they are networked via SmartX switch, however this doesn't change how we handle it from a scanner perspective. I have also renamed these two systems to bring them more in-line with our standard naming conventions.

 

[plaws]

There are correctly two OKWIN systems in the RR database. This is per our standard policy and in no small part due to the fact that they are two different trunked system protocols requiring different scanner programming to monitor them. They may act as one system because they are networked via SmartX switch, however this doesn't change how we handle it from a scanner perspective. I have also renamed these two systems to bring them more in-line with our standard naming conventions.

So will all TGIDs be duplicated between the two otherwise identical listings? Is there a mechanism to prevent "data loss" between the two? Will there be web links on the two pages that make it clear that both systems share users and TG IDs?

This seems to me to be a policy driven by technology (the coding of the site). That technology could (and should, IMHO) be updated to reflect the reality that some sites are P25 and some sites are old-school 3600-baud but are still part of the same system with the same talk groups and the same users (in theory - it's not like the Muskogee PD goes to Lawton very often).

 

[peterjmag]

My opinion would be yes, his radio would not function once out of that coverage area. Don't know if Motorola has something set-up to allow him to use the State system or not.

Nope, this is in fact incorrect. I have heard both analog and digital users come into both analog and digital sites with no problem. Just heard Life Flight leave the Keefeton base going through the digital site of Muskogee and then landed in Tahlequah on that digital site and all heard on the analog side up here in Tulsa on 38416. I don't know what the TG would be if someone was monitoring the digital sites but I know what a digital transmisson sounds like and I heard it clear as day here in Tulsa. The new sites are linked into the old just like the rest of the state.

 

[Freqed]

Nope, this is in fact incorrect. I have heard both analog and digital users come into both analog and digital sites with no problem. Just heard Life Flight leave the Keefeton base going through the digital site of Muskogee and then landed in Tahlequah on that digital site and all heard on the analog side up here in Tulsa on 38416. I don't know what the TG would be if someone was monitoring the digital sites but I know what a digital transmisson sounds like and I heard it clear as day here in Tulsa. The new sites are linked into the old just like the rest of the state.

Are you listening to the new Muskogee site or are you listening to the Tulsa site speculating the traffic went through the Muskogee site. I can connect to the tower from where I am but only get traffic at night because I'm on the edge of the radius. I am not hearing any traffic other than MPD at this time and a few other ID's that have yet to be identified. When OHP Troop C (Muskogee) is on the original system there is no traffic on the New (set on ID search) system. I did hear a Troop C dispatcher as a unit if he was using the new Muskogee site, but never heard his response. Until I can get to Muskogee and get a better read on traffic, I'm not hearing anything OHP related on the new site.

 

[peterjmag]

Based on this document I would say this part of the state is in phase 2 and 3 and yes it is one big system new and old eventually becoming one whole P25 system. This is old news, just glad to see them finally begin to construct the system. I still stress to wait and see what your favorite agency does because if you dump $400.00 on a digital scanner and your favorite agency ends up using encryption your new scanner becomes a door stop.

Oklahoma Wireless Information Network - Home

 

[Freqed]

I just got biggiantokie set- up on the OKWIN P-25 site as he is in Muskogee, set him up to search ID's on the system and try to figure out who's who. In just a matter of 10 min. or so he hit on ID's 1911, 2641, 3949 and 3953, ID 2651 looked to be Muskogee Troop C C-1 (42416) on the state system but will do further monitoring to make sure.

 

[plaws]

Nope, this is in fact incorrect. I have heard both analog and digital users come into both analog and digital sites with no problem. Just heard Life Flight leave the Keefeton base going through the digital site of Muskogee and then landed in Tahlequah on that digital site and all heard on the analog side up here in Tulsa on 38416. I don't know what the TG would be if someone was monitoring the digital sites but I know what a digital transmisson sounds like and I heard it clear as day here in Tulsa. The new sites are linked into the old just like the rest of the state.

So, one big system. Some sites are Batwing Type II, some are P25. Imagine that.

 

[plaws]

I just got biggiantokie set- up on the OKWIN P-25 site as he is in Muskogee, set him up to search ID's on the system and try to figure out who's who. In just a matter of 10 min. or so he hit on ID's 1911, 2641, 3949 and 3953, ID 2651 looked to be Muskogee Troop C C-1 (42416) on the state system but will do further monitoring to make sure.

42416 / 16 = 2651.

Dividing the Uniden-format TG IDs is the mathematical way of removing the 4 status bits they (mistakenly, IMHO) tacked on the end.

<broken record>One big system ...</broken record>

 

[mam1081]

42416 / 16 = 2651.

Dividing the Uniden-format TG IDs is the mathematical way of removing the 4 status bits they (mistakenly, IMHO) tacked on the end.

<broken record>One big system ...</broken record>

So who is ID 3949? converts to F6D, which isnt listed on the old system page as confirmed, but as "proposed" as Norman area building maintenance.

I still stand my ground that they are two separate systems with a shared backbone, and links into each other.

 

[plaws]

So who is ID 3949? converts to F6D, which isnt listed on the old system page as confirmed, but as "proposed" as Norman area building maintenance.

I still stand my ground that they are two separate systems with a shared backbone, and links into each other.

No idea and, given that it's apparently exciting building maintenance traffic, no one else has any idea either. I usually forget that there is even a "proposed changes" page. Gives me an idea ...

 

[Drkatzjr45]

Dec 12, 2012

Google:

OMB Control Number 306.0-1080


In this document, the City of Tulsa has requested an extention waiver for completion of rebanding
until Dec 12, 2012

 

[ericcarlson]

So will all TGIDs be duplicated between the two otherwise identical listings? Is there a mechanism to prevent "data loss" between the two? Will there be web links on the two pages that make it clear that both systems share users and TG IDs?

This seems to me to be a policy driven by technology (the coding of the site). That technology could (and should, IMHO) be updated to reflect the reality that some sites are P25 and some sites are old-school 3600-baud but are still part of the same system with the same talk groups and the same users (in theory - it's not like the Muskogee PD goes to Lawton very often).

I'm not aware of any plans from Lindsay to natively support this in the RR DB at this time. The old system is not going anywhere until it is completely obsolete. Talkgroups should be added to the P25 system as they are confirmed in use on that side. Thanks.

 

[mam1081]

Based on this document I would say this part of the state is in phase 2 and 3 and yes it is one big system new and old eventually becoming one whole P25 system. This is old news, just glad to see them finally begin to construct the system. I still stress to wait and see what your favorite agency does because if you dump $400.00 on a digital scanner and your favorite agency ends up using encryption your new scanner becomes a door stop.

Oklahoma Wireless Information Network - Home

I would be more inclined to think that encryption will be the least of the issues with monitoring this system in the near future. I'd bet P25 Phase II will be the bigger issue. I noted that unitrunked said that the Muskogee area sites were TDMA compatible, which I thought was weird. Apparently Motorola just started shipping Phase II compliant systems. The radio firmware isn't out yet, but I'll bet it's not too far behind....and no scanners to listen to P25 Phase II!


As for the system being linked to the old system...can anyone tell me if the radio IDs are being passed from one system to another? Most likely, if it's a "cheap-o" link, the same radio ID should show to be keying up for every transmission. If it's a intricate link, or "built-in", the radio IDs should pass from one system to another. Just a curious thought...

 

[wx5uif]

I did hear two new talkgroups on this yesterday. I was driving so I couldn't write them down.

Also Muskogee was very active on the system.