NJICS Municipal Migration Discussion - Statewide

[APX8000]

Makes you look at your scanner and shake your head, doesn’t it.

Can someone confirm if PIP PD is running FT encryption. I see Te in the database but a friend told me they went TE.


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[RadioDitch]

Can someone confirm if PIP PD is running FT encryption. I see Te in the database but a friend told me they went TE.

They're still using selectable encryption. They're just selecting it about 22hrs a day.

 

[JMR3865]

The borough of Eatontown (Monmouth County) will be switching over to the ICS system within the next few months. They will have the following talkgroups

Fire Department
EMS
Public Works/OEM
Board of Ed
Police 1
They may have a 2nd police talkgroup (I cannot remember).

I believe they will have their own tower within the borough and other radio equipment located throughout the borough.

If anyone can give me the frequencies and talkgroups when they switch over, that would greatly be appreciated.

Police will be encrypted; unsure about anything else.

 

[RadioDitch]

Another Union Township talkgroup. 4699 Enc, RID: 2019583.

That RID is squarely in the Union Township EMU (EMS) range.

 

[APX8000]

I still don’t understand why these Monmouth County towns don’t switch to the COUNTY TRS ?


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[scannersnstuff]

I still don’t understand why these Monmouth County towns don’t switch to the COUNTY TRS ?


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In order to do that, you must give up your local dispatch

Eatontown pd, has been in the talking stage for njics for a few year's.

 

[scannersnstuff]

In order to do that, you must give up your local dispatch

Eatontown pd, has been in the talking stage for njics for a few year's.

But, Yes, I heard this yesterday too.

 

[Tech792]

I still don’t understand why these Monmouth County towns don’t switch to the COUNTY TRS ?


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Another reason is the many dead spots. Mostly in the central regions. 700 mhz and hills don't get along well when tower locations aren't located in strategic locations.

 

[APX8000]

Seems like a similar rule in Morris, Bergen etc. Maybe if the Department Heads/Chiefs got together and put pressure on the County, that would change. Those systems are funded by taxpayer dollars, such as 911 fees paid by town residents. Yet, an agency can’t utilize that resource unless they give up their dispatch.


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[Pyro658]

anybody know what sites beside telegraph MONOC is on? I really wish we could pool our resources and break down what TGs go on what sites.

 

[KC2ZHY]

anybody know what sites beside telegraph MONOC is on? I really wish we could pool our resources and break down what TGs go on what sites.

It's not that simple. MONOC is a very large system. As such, every radio is programmed with a very large and comprehensive list of sites to pick from. If any one radio is affiliated with a site, the TG will broadcast from it. Likewise, if zero radios are affiliated on a site for a given talkgroup, you won't hear anything coming from it.

I can't speak personally for MONOC radios; but comparably, MedCentral covers a large area and has at least 2 dozen allowable sites. That doesn't mean all 24+ are multicasting all the time; it just means if a radio affiliates with a site on its tuned talkgroup, it will broadcast. Otherwise, it won't. How a radio chooses to affiliate is based on a programmed list of site priorities and geographic locations of subscribing units.

That being said, if you want to hear MONOC South units, program all sites they frequent coverage in geographically. Likewise with MONOC North.

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[APX8000]

But at the same time one can also make a list of “primary” sites in order to get the most amount of traffic. For example, I ALWAYS hear NJSP B2-4 on the West Orange Simulcast. I RARELY hear them on Union Co Simulcast. But let’s say I can pick up both the West Orange and Union Co simulcasts from my location. Instead of programming both sites in as the same “system,” I make each site it’s own individual “system,” thereby forcing the scanner to a particular site vs. letting it pick the one I don’t and miss traffic. I think this is what we he was stating we should be making a list of. Yes, I can hear Cape May SO on West Orange when a unit happens to affiliate. But is that their primary site?...No. I don’t waste a scan position (especially if using something like a Unication G5 where I’m limited to 64 scan talkgroups per knob position) for the remote chance I may catch some of their traffic.

I can tell you that Newark Fire ALWAYS comes over West Orange and Union simulcasts. Things like that should be listed in the DB as primary sites. Maybe the wiki ???


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[Pyro658]

But at the same time one can also make a list of “primary” sites in order to get the most amount of traffic. For example, I ALWAYS hear NJSP B2-4 on the West Orange Simulcast. I RARELY hear them on Union Co Simulcast. But let’s say I can pick up both the West Orange and Union Co simulcasts from my location. Instead of programming both sites in as the same “system,” I make each site it’s own individual “system,” thereby forcing the scanner to a particular site vs. letting it pick the one I don’t and miss traffic. I think this is what we he was stating we should be making a list of. Yes, I can hear Cape May SO on West Orange when a unit happens to affiliate. But is that their primary site?...No. I don’t waste a scan position (especially if using something like a Unication G5 where I’m limited to 64 scan talkgroups per knob position) for the remote chance I may catch some of their traffic.

I can tell you that Newark Fire ALWAYS comes over West Orange and Union simulcasts. Things like that should be listed in the DB as primary sites. Maybe the wiki ???


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That is more or less what I was going for. I am sure there is a primary site for the talk groups. I have my scanner programmed to have each individual site with all the TGID's in them. I also have a G5 from Unication, but this is much more complicated because I don't really know who belongs to what to program it. Like Rutgers for instance, does anyone else use this site besides RU? Is NBFD on here? I feel like we can narrow it down. I understand some TGID's go across multiple sites based on what and where a unit may be, but there has to be a primary site for them to use i would think.

 

[KC2ZHY]

That is more or less what I was going for. I am sure there is a primary site for the talk groups. I have my scanner programmed to have each individual site with all the TGID's in them. I also have a G5 from Unication, but this is much more complicated because I don't really know who belongs to what to program it. Like Rutgers for instance, does anyone else use this site besides RU? Is NBFD on here? I feel like we can narrow it down. I understand some TGID's go across multiple sites based on what and where a unit may be, but there has to be a primary site for them to use i would think.

On the NJICS, no one has exclusive access to any site. So if you tune into Site 29, you'll receive Rutgers New Brunswick, MedCentral, NBFD, JFK, and all other units in that area that utilize the NJICS on whatever TG their radio is tuned to. If a MONOC unit transports to RWJ New Brunswick, chances are it will transmit and receive off of Site 29 while it is there.

Likewise, you have 5 IRs in Monmouth County alone (which to me seems grossly inefficient and should probably be a simulcast; but I digress) plus the Bordentown simulcast. So, I would bet that you would likely receive TGID 4733 off all 6 of those sites at almost any given point, the most reliable one being the Bordentown simulcast due to its expansive coverage.

Again, it's based more on the proximity of the service than anything else. If a radio cannot strongly affiliate with a site, it will attempt to move on to another. A "primary site" is basically just the site that is most likely for a unit to affiliate to merely because of their service location; a consequence of proximity. So you hear Troop B on West Orange all the time because, well, the radios see it as Site 1 and its coverage is so expansive that it doesn't bother looking for another. All the radio has is a list of control channels and will scan until it finds one strong enough to affiliate with, then attempt to affiliate if that site is in its programmed list. If it works, it sticks; if it doesn't, it moves on.

Also keep in mind that a scanner is just not well-tuned and sophisticated enough to decode any and all signals. What an APX can receive is going to be markedly better than what a scanner can.

 

[APX8000]

I guess you never heard of a “base” subscriber. As long as one subscriber is affiliated, that site will carry the traffic. Again my point of why NJSP B2-4 ALWAYS comes over West Orange....because the base at Totowa never roams off it. So their are “primary” sites per se.


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[KC2ZHY]

I guess you never heard of a “base” subscriber. As long as one subscriber is affiliated, that site will carry the traffic. Again my point of why NJSP B2-4 ALWAYS comes over West Orange....because the base at Totowa never roams off it. So their are “primary” sites per se.


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I see what you're referencing; it's a matter of semantics at this point. We could still compile a list of said sites: TGID in one column, "primary" in the next. It would be a pretty large list and the only way to really confirm it is to know or be someone who knows how the consoles are configured.

 

[Pyro658]

On the NJICS, no one has exclusive access to any site. So if you tune into Site 29, you'll receive Rutgers New Brunswick, MedCentral, NBFD, JFK, and all other units in that area that utilize the NJICS on whatever TG their radio is tuned to. If a MONOC unit transports to RWJ New Brunswick, chances are it will transmit and receive off of Site 29 while it is there.

Likewise, you have 5 IRs in Monmouth County alone (which to me seems grossly inefficient and should probably be a simulcast; but I digress) plus the Bordentown simulcast. So, I would bet that you would likely receive TGID 4733 off all 6 of those sites at almost any given point, the most reliable one being the Bordentown simulcast due to its expansive coverage.

Again, it's based more on the proximity of the service than anything else. If a radio cannot strongly affiliate with a site, it will attempt to move on to another. A "primary site" is basically just the site that is most likely for a unit to affiliate to merely because of their service location; a consequence of proximity. So you hear Troop B on West Orange all the time because, well, the radios see it as Site 1 and its coverage is so expansive that it doesn't bother looking for another. All the radio has is a list of control channels and will scan until it finds one strong enough to affiliate with, then attempt to affiliate if that site is in its programmed list. If it works, it sticks; if it doesn't, it moves on.

Also keep in mind that a scanner is just not well-tuned and sophisticated enough to decode any and all signals. What an APX can receive is going to be markedly better than what a scanner can.

This saddens me and I feel like I need to scan all sites all the time to try and catch the entire transmission of a call. This could explain why sometimes I hear control call 206 or 201 and then don't hear the reply.

 

[KC2ZHY]

This saddens me and I feel like I need to scan all sites all the time to try and catch the entire transmission of a call. This could explain why sometimes I hear control call 206 or 201 and then don't hear the reply.

It does make it difficult, especially because scanners will bounce from site-to-site very quickly. I cannot recall if there is a way to induce a delay on a site if a talkgroup becomes active so that you don't potentially miss the remainder of the conversation.

My $0.02: if it were me designing MONOC Control and I had a choice for a site to link my base to in the South region, I would have linked it to the Wall IR. Thus, I would assume that you'd hear the most traffic out of that site. An alternate would be the Bordentown simulcast, and I would anticipate that 99.9% of MONOC traffic would also be broadcast off of that simply due to how comprehensive its coverage is, especially in Ocean County.

 

[JMR3865]

So in essence, if we want to listen to MONOC, We need to program all the sites in as the portables radios on the system bounce between site to site?

 

[mdsxfire]

In order to do that, you must give up your local dispatch



Eatontown pd, has been in the talking stage for njics for a few year's.

I’ve asked this question many times for my county (Middlesex) in particular, especially since we don’t have a county dispatch u are forced to if u jump on their system. Tons of tax dollars are dumped into these systems to make them work as well as possible and less than half the county towns utilize it. It seems every town wants their own system to control no matter the cost vs cost savings of being on a larger centrally maintained system. Also notice town TG that are not used, my guess is they tried it and for whatever reason didn’t like it.
To stay on the thread topic when the state decided years ago to go ahead with the NJICS system they should have worked with each county who then have could have worked with their towns to try and get as many agencies on the state system as possible, think of the tax dollars saved if u cut all the individual town/county systems out in favor of the states.


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