NJICS Municipal Migration Discussion - Statewide

[CqDx]

Believe it or not, the UHF system has been on the air for almost 8 years. It is not uncommon for a system upgrade after hardware goes obsolete and system upgrade outweigh the cost of keeping an obsolete system.

 

[902]

The only 700 mhz frequencies that I am aware of being issued in the area of Jersey City was for Hudson County for a possible new system for the county.

Jersey City at the beginning of this school year just added the Board of Ed to their system and had to buy all portables for them.

I do not see jersey city moving off their system anytime unless they are forced too, the UHF system is not that old and would it be cost prohibitive.

There was a license filed for Hudson County, but it may be "slow growth" and allowed to be implemented over time. It would have been big news if it went online.

But you've also got other trunked systems in Hudson County besides Jersey City. Bayonne and Union City are trunked, too. West New York and North Bergen have considerable traffic, and whatever system would also have to accommodate NHRFR and more than likely the MC and McCabe's for interoperability. That system would be heavily loaded.

 

[902]

Believe it or not, the UHF system has been on the air for almost 8 years. It is not uncommon for a system upgrade after hardware goes obsolete and system upgrade outweigh the cost of keeping an obsolete system.

Hey, the manufacturers all learned their lesson after Motracs and low band. Point being: when you sell a bulletproof system once, you've sold it once and you won't see it again for 40 years or more. They discovered the big money is in infrastructure, and in having people "touch" the system on a frequent basis. A lot of that is updating COTS components, developing APIs to make sure little features here and there mesh up, etc. In my view, it spreads the wealth. Now, the philosophy is shifting again. It's not in infrastructure, someone else can buy all that stuff and maintain it. It's in subscriber units. Those will also need operating system updates, firmware, etc., and you buy a new one every 18 mos. because if it won't break, the existing unit won't be compatible with the network. Complexity is a perpetual motion model. The simplest "me to you" systems can be kept in a box for decades, and, as long as the batteries are good, they'll work with minimal maintenance under a wide variety of conditions. That's probably the biggest reason to not fully deprecate or dumpster a stand-alone system.

Complex might be very handy and have a lot of utilities, but simple survives.

 

[Analogrules]

Scotch Plains Appears To Be The Next To Go

It looks like Scotch Plains is next to enter the NJICS with encryption capable, and abandon their perfectly good 470 Mhz frequency.

 

[GM]

Scotch Plains Police switch to NJICS

... and abandon their perfectly good 470 MHz frequency.

All license holders and agencies in the United States are being ordered to by The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012, under HR 3630, Public Law No: 112-96 (02/22/2012), Title VI, Subtitle A, Section 6103, which states:

"Requires the FCC, within nine years after enactment of this title, to reallocate the T-Band spectrum (470-512 MHz) currently used by public safety eligibles and begin using competitive bidding auctions to grant new licenses for such spectrum. Makes the proceeds from such auctions available to the Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Communications and Information (referred to as the Assistant Secretary and is the head of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration [NTIA]) to make grants for the relocation of public safety entities from the T-Band spectrum. Requires that such relocation be completed within two years after the competitive bidding is completed."

This is the reason why more and more agencies are abandoning UHF-T spectrum, and moving over to 700 MHz. They are doing so before the Grant money no longer becomes available.

 

[slapshot0017]

All license holders and agencies in the United States are being ordered to by The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012, under HR 3630, Public Law No: 112-96 (02/22/2012), Title VI, Subtitle A, Section 6103, which states:

"Requires the FCC, within nine years after enactment of this title, to reallocate the T-Band spectrum (470-512 MHz) currently used by public safety eligibles and begin using competitive bidding auctions to grant new licenses for such spectrum. Makes the proceeds from such auctions available to the Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Communications and Information (referred to as the Assistant Secretary and is the head of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration [NTIA]) to make grants for the relocation of public safety entities from the T-Band spectrum. Requires that such relocation be completed within two years after the competitive bidding is completed."

This is the reason why more and more agencies are abandoning UHF-T spectrum, and moving over to 700 MHz. They are doing so before the Grant money no longer becomes available.

That's not true for everything though. The FDNY/NYPD will not be vacating their allocations any time soon.

 

[Analogrules]

I agree with slapshot. Having to vacate the T-band sounds like BS to me, especially since the MTA Subway operations recently switched to the 470 MHz full time. I am sure there are also other new licenses across the country in that band too. Yes, I have seen other members mention this too, however never seen any official mention of this from any valid news source.

 

[GM]

I used this link as my source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/3630. Perhaps there have been amendments and/or waivers that I'm not aware of to the Law listed above...

 

[Analogrules]

True GM. I also used very poor wording in my response. I know for sure that initially the T-band had to be vacated by all public safety and I am not disputing that, however due to the recent transition of the MTA Subway and no signs of NYC PD going anywhere, I would not be surprised if the entire mandate will be scrapped. The last I heard is that all public safety can stay until 2021 without any problem, and then there will still be a bidding process for relocation which can take even longer. Furthermore, now that we will have a new President and Congress, I would not be surprised if the entire thing will be squashed.

 

[jaymatt1978]

If history is an indication having a new President (if Trump doesn't get reelected) in 2021 and Congress won't slow any process down. Unlike just about every other matter in Washington, FCC regulations regarding radios (meaning those used by public safety and business) Congress relies heavily on the FCC, at times too much, to make a decisions. Even though the Presidents appoints the FCC chairperson, it''s usually one of the easiest confirmations because Congress doesn't ask very technical questions at the hearings, I watched them.
Even if another person occupied the White House in 2021, there's no way to know what will happen. I don't know of a radical shift in FCC policy from one administration to the other with regards to public safety radio systems, I'd be curious if someone on here could point out one time this was the case. Everything the FCC has done has really been gradual, they have had digital and encryption since the eighties
Like every thing else it all comes down to funding. If the money is allocated to make the transition, then they're doing it. Remember this is supposedly all happening under the guise of "interoperability"
Also what is starting to happen some departments,like the NYPD, are applying for waivers, that's how they're getting around all this. You can't use them as a benchmark because, again from history, not a lot a lot of departments are applying for waivers. NYPD has arguably one of the biggest radio systems in the country

True GM. I also used very poor wording in my response. I know for sure that initially the T-band had to be vacated by all public safety and I am not disputing that, however due to the recent transition of the MTA Subway and no signs of NYC PD going anywhere, I would not be surprised if the entire mandate will be scrapped. The last I heard is that all public safety can stay until 2021 without any problem, and then there will still be a bidding process for relocation which can take even longer. Furthermore, now that we will have a new President and Congress, I would not be surprised if the entire thing will be squashed.

 

[Analogrules]

Perhaps you are right Jaymatt. I honestly cannot recall a time either when the FCC changed a rule as a direct result of a new President or Congress, but I guess it is possible. I should google it later if I hsve time.

The problem is that the Fed is billions in debt, so there really isn't funding for it directly, just borrowed money that puts us more in debt to fix things, that were not even broken in the first place (in most cases).

 

[richee2000]

TG 4137

TG 4137. new Talk Group... radio ID 1600437 .. testing .. union county either co or local PD... discussing possible the new radio system and its merits this might be Springfield.. they were talking about locations there

 

[APX8000]

Can we stay on topic and move T-band discussions somewhere else....thanks !


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[Septa3371CSX1]

TG 4137. new Talk Group... radio ID 1600437 .. testing .. union county either co or local PD... discussing possible the new radio system and its merits this might be Springfield.. they were talking about locations there

Believe that is a REMU Test talkgroup.

 

[Markscan]

4563 Verona DPW testing new radios.
4549 is another Verona talkgroup unknown usage .
We should see more new talk groups very soon as equipment is distributed.


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[richee2000]

verona is on west orange site only?

 

[Markscan]

I would assume West Orange only, but who knows for sure.


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[ansky]

I would assume West Orange only, but who knows for sure.


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That's pretty much a guarantee. The only Essex County agency operating on another site is Newark Fire (which can be heard on the Union County simulcast). Everyone else in Essex County is only on the West Orange simulcast.

 

[richee2000]

hearing activity on new TG 3429 ( I think radio ID was possibly 16294 )

 

[elias1988]

hearing activity on new TG 3429 ( I think radio ID was possibly 16294 )

Solid Hazardous Waste Unit

800 MHz TG 54864 = 3429