APX Non-Affiliated Scan using an affiliated APX?

[rcmanning]

I’m currently using a department issued APX but want to add more talk groups to the codeplug. The ASK is not writeprotected so I’m able to reprogram everything except the system and talk groups. Before I start diving into learning how to program NAS, I have a couple questions:

1. Assuming I’m able to bypass the system key using NAS, would I even need to worry about my radio affiliating since the system already recognizes the radio ID? If so, please explain why.
2. Can you strap KMF keys to NAS talk groups? (Yes I have the keys)
3. Where can I find a definitive guide to programming NAS? I’ve spent 5 hours searching batlab and RR and can only find threads talking about NAS and bits and pieces of actual programming instructions.

Before people start going off… yes I’m aware that the radio could transmit if programmed incorrectly. I will be doing my due diligence to make sure that doesn’t happen. Also, yes I could ask the city to add the talk groups but I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming so I’d rather see if NAS is feasible before I have to deal with bureaucracy.

 

[GTR8000]

NAS does not "bypass" the system key. You still need a system key in order to modify the trunking parameters. Yes, that includes adding new talkgroups.

There are a lot of red flags in your post that indicate that you don't even know where to start. You really had better think twice before screwing around with a subscriber that was issued by a public safety agency.

 

[clbsquared]

If the radio has a valid ID and is already on the system, why would you need NAS? Just add the talkgroups and put them in a scanlist.

But, I also agree with GTR8000. If you’re wanting to do NAS on a subscriber radio, it would seem that you don’t have a good understanding of programming these types of systems. Take the radio to whoever does the programming for the city and have them do it. Don’t put yourself in a situation where you ( or your agency) could be liable for something because you were fooling around with a radio that doesn’t belong to you.

 

[rcmanning]

NAS does not "bypass" the system key. You still need a system key in order to modify the trunking parameters. Yes, that includes adding new talkgroups.

There are a lot of red flags in your post that indicate that you don't even know where to start. You really had better think twice before screwing around with a subscriber that was issued by a public safety agency.

I’m aware that you have to have a system key in order to program a trunking system. What I’m not understanding is how people are “accessing” a system key that allows them to program NAS. Obviously they don’t have access to THE system key otherwise they wouldn’t be having to program NAS.

You are correct I don’t even know where to start because I currently know nothing about NAS. I consider myself intermediate at programming on CPS, but I will not try to actually use NAS unless I am 100% confident that my programming will not affect the safety of my department nor myself(legally).

 

[rcmanning]

If the radio has a valid ID and is already on the system, why would you need NAS? Just add the talkgroups and put them in a scanlist.

But, I also agree with GTR8000. If you’re wanting to do NAS on a subscriber radio, it would seem that you don’t have a good understanding of programming these types of systems. Take the radio to whoever does the programming for the city and have them do it. Don’t put yourself in a situation where you ( or your agency) could be liable for something because you were fooling around with a radio that doesn’t belong to you.

You cannot add/delete talk groups unless you have the ASK loaded in CPS

 

[GTR8000]

If your radio requires an ASK, there is absolutely nothing you can do on your own to add talkgroups. NAS requires that the talkgroups you wish to scan be added to the trunking personalities in the codeplug. As to the "how", that's not really an appropriate discussion for this site, as the software used was never meant to be available publicly. Sorry.

 

[Asunakiyori]

You cannot add/delete talk groups unless you have the ASK loaded in CPS

funny How I don't have ASK and I have added removed, renamed, and Flipped an ID I misprogrammed

 

[rcmanning]

If your radio requires an ASK, there is absolutely nothing you can do on your own to add talkgroups. NAS requires that the talkgroups you wish to scan be added to the trunking personalities in the codeplug. As to the "how", that's not really an appropriate discussion for this site, as the software used was never meant to be available publicly. Sorry.

Okay that’s what I figured. Thank you for your response

funny How I don't have ASK and I have added removed, renamed, and Flipped an ID I misprogrammed

Based on my experience with the codeplug I’m currently working with, I can only rename talk groups of the existing systems. The only way I’m able to actually edit talk groups is if I create a new system

 

[GTR8000]

funny How I don't have ASK and I have added removed, renamed, and Flipped an ID I misprogrammed

Not all radios require an ASK. If QA01749 is in the FLASHcode, no ASK needed.

 

[Asunakiyori]

Okay that’s what I figured. Thank you for your response

Based on my experience with the codeplug I’m currently working with, I can only rename talk groups of the existing systems. The only way I’m able to actually edit talk groups is if I create a new system

the only way I have been able to edit the entire line other than having the new system ID default, is having a system key. a new system defaults to 1. which in my experience has always resulted been loaded default by CPS. but if you have ASK on your apx.. you boned as GTR said

 

[ElroyJetson]

It would be extremely unusual for any department or agency to permit its users to reprogram his department issued radio at will. I suggest that you should not do that until you have clear administrative level guidance on whether or not this is allowable. In general no administrators want people to be messing about with any aspect of their system. While it may be that you are actually allowed to make such changes, I judge it to be equally likely that such actions could carry harsh penalties for you.

You'd better get it in writing if someone grants you permission to mess with your radio's codeplug.

 

[n3obl]

This is a quick way to be out of a job!!!

 

[mbnv992]

I would never in a million years think of taking my department issued radio and hooking it up to any personal computer / CPS, let alone screw with its programming.


Send it to the departments radio techs and have them add the talk groups to the radio.

 

[MTS2000des]

This is why I keep all our radio codeplugs locked with passwords and firmware at R29/30 to keep end users from dicking with them. Their EULA also states that any unauthorized programming attempts by them or others constitutes a computer network trespass crime (felony) and can result in referrals to the DA for prosecution.

The entire purpose of an ASK is to limit a programmer from changing programming of a given system particulars including individual IDs and talk groups.

 

[clbsquared]

NAS is not the ability to program or edit a trunking system without a system key. It’s just a method of passively scanning a trunking system without the radio affiliating to the system. If your radio is already affiliated, then you don’t need to use the NAS method. However, you still need the system key to add or change talkgroups regardless.
Creating a new trunking system still requires a system key.

 

[MTS2000des]

No public safety user should be making ANY changes to their official public safety subscribers unless authorized to do so by system owners in writing, and if that were the case, they would have a system key or ASK with permissions set accordingly and no need to "NAS".

 

[clbsquared]

No public safety user should be making ANY changes to their official public safety subscribers unless authorized to do so by system owners in writing, and if that were the case, they would have a system key or ASK with permissions set accordingly and no need to "NAS".

Agreed. Even if it’s a legitimate subscriber, personally editing trunking systems without going through the proper channels, ends up making it a rogue radio. If the administrator wanted the talkgroups in that radio, they would put them in there. There’s a reason they aren’t there now.

 

[MississippiPI]

I’m currently using a department issued APX but want to add more talk groups to the codeplug. The ASK is not writeprotected so I’m able to reprogram everything except the system and talk groups. Before I start diving into learning how to program NAS, I have a couple questions:

1. Assuming I’m able to bypass the system key using NAS, would I even need to worry about my radio affiliating since the system already recognizes the radio ID? If so, please explain why.
2. Can you strap KMF keys to NAS talk groups? (Yes I have the keys)
3. Where can I find a definitive guide to programming NAS? I’ve spent 5 hours searching batlab and RR and can only find threads talking about NAS and bits and pieces of actual programming instructions.

Before people start going off… yes I’m aware that the radio could transmit if programmed incorrectly. I will be doing my due diligence to make sure that doesn’t happen. Also, yes I could ask the city to add the talk groups but I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming so I’d rather see if NAS is feasible before I have to deal with bureaucracy.

I believe you can program it to receive only

 

[clbsquared]

I believe you can program it to receive only

Still need a system key.

 

[MississippiPI]

Still need a system key.

Yes, I'm aware