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(Novice) Preparing 28 UHF Police/EMS XTS3000 Model II For Sale. What Needs To Be Done?

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RFI-EMI-GUY

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Actually an easier method is to allow a feature in CPS or/ TUNER that will allow anyone to be able to clear and blank a radio to default as pulled out of the box. ASK is mainly to protect the programmed (System) data from modifications but it should allow to have a one command reset to default mode. Now obviously Motorola does not support the older stuff hence they will never make that happen.

Yes I know some will say ASK is to protect the radio itself. Many times I see these with ASK end up being auctioned off without properly being cleared.

I think Motorola is well aware that the secondary market is eliminated by the use of the ASK and they are quite fine with that.

If you think of a radio as a motor vehicle, the presence of the (undisclosed) ASK is similar to buying a used patrol car and then finding the title has an undisclosed lien on it. You can be sure that a buyer of that vehicle is going to be writing a letter.
 

MTS2000des

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Henceforth by the SELLER not the item. Too many Ebay flippers don't give a rats behind or know anything. They go to GovDeals or local auction, buy a pallet of radios and because they see past auctions with big bucks they think they're sitting on a gold mine.

Then they get their first "item not as described" case because a buyer gets a brick. Not as easy as it is on fake reality TV shows is it folks?

LMR subscriber equipment, especially P25 radios, are very different value wise depending on things like having been hit with ASKs, flashed feature sets, firmware, and if they have been properly vetted/tested by a QUALIFIED technician not shade tree "teknishun". Sellers like Rick Thompson know their trade, and have the right skill set, tools and test equipment and reputation to get premium prices.

Everything else is a crap shoot.
 

phreaktor

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I know some else that purchased radios from this same auction. The radios are surplus from Burlington County NJ 500MHz smartzone trunking system. There were also several zones of conventional channels. Most all the radios have ASK.

Here is contact information for the group that maintained those radios. Maybe they can help you in some way.

Thank you so much. This is the route I was going to take today.
And who is going to pay for the labor? Y'all gotta be real, when we demob radios that are for a system that was taken down, we're not going to invest the labor involved in wiping the deprecated system from the ancient 20 year old radios. When my Smartnet system went off the air, I was not going to bother removing the useless programming nor remove ASK from MTS2000 and MCS2000s that were sold for scrap. I had a staff of two and our priorities were assisting users with the new system, taking care of addressing programming glitches, and training folks. Sorry hard to spend a few weeks (which is what the effort would have taken) to wipe 1200 or so ancient radios so some hobbyist could have a toy.

It's just not reality.
They "bothered" to offer them at auction, where they received thousands of dollars knowing full well they are bricks with no disclaimer as to their status. That is borderline unethical and definitely unprofessional, since you feel that level of expertise is a requirement to engage in the programming and sales of radios. I am not a fly by night seller. I am a legitimate business owner and I want to make sure each device I put on the market is as described, so I am doing this the right way by evaluating and testing them to the best of the capabilities I gain through this learning process. No need to belittle my efforts as a hobbyist and I don't play with "toys."
 
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MTS2000des

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They "bothered" to offer them at auction, where they received thousands of dollars knowing full well they are bricks with no disclaimer as to their status. That is borderline unethical and definitely unprofessional, since you feel that level of expertise is a requirement to engage in the programming and sales of radios. I am not a fly by night seller. I am a legitimate business owner and I want to make sure each device I put on the market is as described, so I am doing this the right way by evaluating and testing them to the best of the capabilities I gain through this learning process. No need to belittle my efforts as a hobbyist and I don't play with "toys."
Don't take it personal, as a professional, you realize many of us who do this for a living serve people who give us budgets, projects and time frames. Once subscriber radios are deprecated, and the associated system(s) are taken offlined due to age (which the scrap you bought is long off support and considered outdated, outmoded, etc), we don't invest thousands of taxpayer dollars so that a flipper can make a buck.

Sorry that's reality. Nothing belittling about it. Most of us have a wall full of certifications of decades of experience maintaining these systems that our users rely on for their safety of life. Our ethics are to support out CURRENT system(s), subscribers and use our allocated labor budgets on things that serve our stakeholders. Sorry we don't take time to deprogram 20 year old radios no longer supported by the manufacturer and spend hundreds of hours away from other pressing tasks like supporting our current subscribers, systems and users so some Ebayers can have a supply of fresh stuff to flip. It's just the way it is.

Your assertion that the systems folks who rid those old bricks should have taken the time to remove an ASK, which is requires manually touching EACH radio, is as asinine as insisting the same entity put fresh copies of Windows on 20 year old PCs sold as E-waste. Like many things, there is much more to it than watching a few YouTube videos or visiting a forum.
 

phreaktor

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Your assertion that the systems folks who rid those old bricks should have taken the time to remove an ASK, which is requires manually touching EACH radio, is as asinine as insisting the same entity put fresh copies of Windows on 20 year old PCs sold as E-waste. Like many things, there is much more to it than watching a few YouTube videos or visiting a forum.
That would make sense if they were being sold "as e-waste" or "for parts." They were listed without a disclaimer and with specification information that would be relevant to their eventual use. Not sure why you insist this was the premise they were sold under when that is simply not the case. In fact, it is deceptive because that is a condition that they would be aware would reduce the resale value if disclosed. If that is ethical in your eyes as a "professional", I don't really need to hear any more of your opinions or advice. If it is such a hassle for "professionals" to properly pass on ownership of their assets, whether it be 20 year old vehicles, tools or radios, then they should simply destroy them with their own labor rather than making them available to the general public for a quick buck.

Would it be ok for me to simply toss these on eBay with basic specs listed rather than invest the time into ensuring they have basic functions like I am? Me being "busy" is of absolutely no consequence with regard to my integrity and responsibility as a seller. Nothing personal.
 
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mmckenna

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That would make sense if they were being sold "as e-waste" or "for parts." They were listed without a disclaimer and with specification information that would be relevant to their eventual use. Not sure why you insist this was the premise they were sold under when that is simply not the case. In fact, it is deceptive because that is a condition that they would be aware would reduce the resale value if disclosed. If that is ethical in your eyes as a "professional", I don't really need to hear any more of your opinions or advice. If it is such a hassle for "professionals" to properly pass on ownership of their assets, whether it be 20 year old vehicles, tools or radios, then they should simply destroy them with their own labor rather than making them available to the general public for a quick buck.

I can appreciate your opinion on this, but MTS2000DES makes a very valid point, and I can back that up.

I shut down an old trunked system and had about 350 radios that needed to go. This was for a large state facility. I did purposely wipe some of the radios that had trunked systems in them that were still active at other sites. That was a security thing that I did in case they fell into the wrong hands, and so it didn't become an issue to that agency.
The rest of them were sent, as is, to our shipping and receiving department since they handle surplus sales, e-waste, recycling, etc.

I let them know what they were, what their expected value was, and that was it. It was up to those guys to decide what to do with them. I don't see a dime of that money if they are sold. I suggested e-waste, since these radios were selling for $40 or less each on E-Bay, and it didn't make financial sense for much effort being made to try and sell them.
I have no idea what happened with most of those radios. They may have gone to e-waste, they may have been dumped in a dumpster, or they may have been auctioned off. Even if they went to e-waste, there's nothing that says they didn't magically end up on e-Bay or auctioned off somewhere else.
Truth is, once those radios left my shop, I was done with them. I no longer had any obligation to support them, remove system keys, or anything else. They were garbage to me and not worth any more of my time.

I think you are expecting the original radio shop to be the ones that actually sell them. Usually that's not the case, and in most government agencies, there are all kinds of rules to prevent me from selling equipment directly. It all has to go through a specific group.
What you have is a bunch of radios the shop wanted rid of. They did what they were supposed to do, which is dump them on the group that handles surplus.
What happened next was out of the control of the radio shop. Some guy in shipping and receiving, material management, purchasing, or some other similar department probably just dumped them on a pallet and sent them off to auction to see if they could make a few bucks off them. End of story. If they hadn't sold at auction, they would have been dumped to e-waste, or just plain tossed in a dumpster.

You could certainly try contacting the shop and see if you can get them to help. I suspect they won't. Maybe your experience will be different. I know I wouldn't spend any time on them if I was in that place. More rules in place about spending government labor/funds on helping a commercial provider make a profit. That sort of stuff always ends badly.

And no way I'd buy random pallets of used radios hoping to flip them. I know what they go through and the pitfalls. Make what you can off them, but don't expect the agency to spend any time, effort or money trying to help you make your investment back. Dump them any way you can and take it as lesson learned. Hopefully you make your investment back.
 
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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The correct thing would be for the agencies selling off gear programmed with ASK to disclose that it is unrepairable, non working equipment.

How hard would that be?
 

MTS2000des

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It wouldn't, but often times those who do the disposal aren't the ones who demob. Case in point, when we surplus property, we call a county department that comes and takes the equipment out of inventory and brings it to a warehouse, sorts it, and either attempts to surplus it to other nearby governments first (as is allowed by Georgia law) or sold as e-waste or scrap to third parties. Information on specifications, condition, etc isn't given or recorded. They have a limited staff and are responsible for ALL county assets including furniture, vehicles, etc. Vehicles are the one exception as they have TITLE and under Georgia law, one has to disclose the operating condition (salvage title, mileage, etc) during any transfer of ownership. As you know, this is paperwork, and paperwork equates to labor hours. Nothing in Georgia law requires the same with any tangible property.

I think you are expecting the original radio shop to be the ones that actually sell them. Usually that's not the case, and in most government agencies, there are all kinds of rules to prevent me from selling equipment directly. It all has to go through a specific group.
What you have is a bunch of radios the shop wanted rid of. They did what they were supposed to do, which is dump them on the group that handles surplus.
What happened next was out of the control of the radio shop. Some guy in shipping and receiving, material management, purchasing, or some other similar department probably just dumped them on a pallet and sent them off to auction to see if they could make a few bucks off them. End of story. If they hadn't sold at auction, they would have been dumped to e-waste, or just plain tossed in a dumpster.
Bingo. The O/P doesn't and has never worked in this business and doesn't respect/appreciate our processes or work flow. He/she assumes they are a "victim" because they intended on making a quick buck flipping 20-25 year old radios and find out, as we all often do, that much more exists to doing something well. My point wasn't to discourage, but to educate. Obviously the O/P doesn't like facts- but that doesn't and won't change them. His/her choice to take it as a life lesson and move onto flipping something with lower risk or only buy from those who vet their products but they aren't gonna get the pennies by the pound deal at that point.

There is much more to dealing with these two decade old radios aside from ASK's. Properly functioning to spec subscribers require alignment, testing and vetting beyond the scope of most hobbyist or flippers budget. A modern service monitor with test set cables and such START around $35 grand. The R-8000B sitting on my desk was close to $60 grand. Nevermind the yearly calibration and training to actually use it. Auto tune though, is a breeze. Certainly changes the "get rich quick" aspect now doesn't it? Also shows why quality sellers price their wares (and can get that price) accordingly. Businesses like Sunny Communications aren't low price leaders for a reason.
 
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MTS2000des

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I don't really need to hear any more of your opinions or advice. If it is such a hassle for "professionals" to properly pass on ownership of their assets, whether it be 20 year old vehicles, tools or radios, then they should simply destroy them with their own labor rather than making them available to the general public for a quick buck.

Would it be ok for me to simply toss these on eBay with basic specs listed rather than invest the time into ensuring they have basic functions like I am? Me being "busy" is of absolutely no consequence with regard to my integrity and responsibility as a seller. Nothing personal.
You come to a public forum, expect public responses. Don't like it? Click IGNORE and move on. You took the time to register on here to pick SME's minds so you could make maximum profit. Then you want to insult those who are stating facts you don't like to hear. So typical of today. My responses are for the benefit of the radio community and to educate everyone not spoon feed any particular person. Forums are about collaboration not one way transactions.

You can list whatever you want on Ebay, as a seller, one assumes all the risk of accurately describing the item. If one has knowledge of something and fails to disclose it, then one assumes all the risks including dealing with the "item not as described" cases (which sellers almost always lose).
Posting on a public forum displaying that knowledge that a product is locked by a previous owner is just icing on that cake.
One can't "un-know" something once they've disclosed it publicly. Ebay's forum is all about buyer protection. Buying something at an auction including Gov-Deals, the terms are "as-is where is" with "all faults".
 
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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It wouldn't, but often times those who do the disposal aren't the ones who demob. Case in point, when we surplus property, we call a county department that comes and takes the equipment out of inventory and brings it to a warehouse, sorts it, and either attempts to surplus it to other nearby governments first (as is allowed by Georgia law) snip

Snip

What happens in this case, some other agency lower on food chain. Podunk VFD, decides they want a few dozen XTS3000 radios that happen to be bricked with ASK?
 

mikewazowski

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Yup, pretty much.

OP received radios that he thought should have been programmable but were hit with an ASK preventing programming. He can take it up with the appropriate people.
 
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