PA Statewide P25 Phase 2 System

[HM1529]

Thanks for the wiki link. I hadn’t seen that yet.

I’m suprised they’d go live with those limited sites. I’m assuming, based on that information, that PSP is using vehicle extenders?

Yes. The system is designed for mobile coverage, so in vehicle repeaters were planned for PSP to give trooper increased portable coverage beyond what they'll get with the new tower sites.

Look for portables in the 700MHz range as a possibility for the vehicular repeaters. Lots of open real estate there.

 

[ocguard]

Yes. The system is designed for mobile coverage, so in vehicle repeaters were planned for PSP to give trooper increased portable coverage beyond what they'll get with the new tower sites.

Look for portables in the 700MHz range as a possibility for the vehicular repeaters. Lots of open real estate there.

The portables I saw appeared to be APX8000s so I can only assume that they are dual-band VHF and 7/800mhz

 

[trentbob]

Actually look for three different ranges. VHF High, UHF 1 and 2 and 7 - 800 megahertz. That's what the apx 8000 covers.

 

[trentbob]

Error.

 

[GTR8000]

Actually look for three different ranges. VHF High, UHF 1 and 2 and 7 - 800 megahertz. That's what the apx 8000 covers.

While the APX 8000 is hardware capable of being an all-band radio, it's not necessarily a given that any particular model has all three bands provisioned. You can order the radio as single-band, dual-band, or tri-band, depending on the FLASHcode specified. It will always have the hardware for all three bands, but whether they are actually unlocked is up to the purchaser to specify. For each band you delete, you save $800 off the list price (nominally $600 state contract pricing).

The PSP radios may in fact be all-band, as that is the default configuration for the APX 8000. Saving $600-$800 to delete the UHF band is likely not enough of a savings to outweigh leaving the band enabled for interop, operations on other systems, or if the commonwealth potentially builds out additional UHF sites/cells at some point.

QA05507 Delete 7/800 MHz Band -$800.00
QA05508 Delete VHF MHz Band -$800.00
QA05509 Delete UHF MHz Band -$800.00

 

[trentbob]

Wow, if what you say is true that is a perfect example of the waste of money Pennsylvania is famous for. I live in the area of District 4 Pennsylvania Turnpike and Trevose barracks. They regularly communicate with the Bucks County 700 megahertz P2 system using what I thought was and was told was apx 7000s. Who knows, the last people in the world who know how to use the radios are the cops themselves.

With all the systems and development I guess it makes sense to buy much more expensive apx 8000 radios with the potential for expansion in the future.

We know that Pennsylvania would never waste any money on radio systems as based on the Open Sky system they've been using.

By the way when that system doesn't work? They talk on the old VHF system they used for years and years and years, just like the turnpike does now. I listen everyday to the state police on I-95 talkin on the old tac 1 VHF channel.

Sorry for the rant but... It is Pennsylvania.

 

[GTR8000]

Wow, if what you say is true that is a perfect example of the waste of money Pennsylvania is famous for. I live in the area of District 4 Pennsylvania Turnpike and Trevose barracks. They regularly communicate with the Bucks County 700 megahertz P2 system using what I thought was and was told was apx 7000s. Who knows, the last people in the world who know how to use the radios are the cops themselves.

With all the systems and development I guess it makes sense to buy much more expensive apx 8000 radios with the potential for expansion in the future.

We know that Pennsylvania would never waste any money on radio systems as based on the Open Sky system they've been using.

By the way when that system doesn't work? They talk on the old VHF system they used for years and years and years, just like the turnpike does now. I listen everyday to the state police on I-95 talkin on the old tac 1 VHF channel.

Sorry for the rant but... It is Pennsylvania.

I don't really see how it is a "waste of money".

First of all, the dual-band APX 7000 was discontinued a while ago (I'll look up the specific last-order dates if you truly care), and so that leaves the single-band APX 6000 or multi-band APX 8000.

Since the new statewide P25 system has both VHF and 800 MHz sites/cells (not counting the oddball UHF site in Erie County), you're going to want to make sure that all of the troopers can operate on any site in the system if they need to be deployed, so at minimum you want VHF and 7/800 provisioned in the radios. This is just common sense.

At this point you're spending upwards of $7,000 per radio, so another $600 to leave UHF provisioned is not a huge expenditure in the big picture. There are at least four counties in PA that have UHF P25 trunked systems, and that doesn't count any UHF analog/P25 conventional stuff. Since everyone is always going on about "interoperability" or the lack of it, it would be kind of hypocritical for anyone to complain that the PSP equip their troopers with the ability to have as many resources in their radios as possible.

Believe me, there are far more egregious examples of wasting money than a fully provisioned APX 8000. The OpenSky system was the greatest example of a money pit when it came to communications, but they are finally doing the right thing by dumping that and going with the ASTRO 25 system. Clearly they have smartened up by going back to mostly VHF with pockets of 800. They will indeed wind up saving money in the long run by eliminating so many of the OpenSky 800 sites, which are not cheap to lease or maintain.

 

[talviar]

The best way to sum it up.... Look at PSP as a STATEWIDE user of the STATEWIDE radio system. The radio needs the capability to operate on VHF, UHF, 700/800. Many problems have been encountered with the APX7500 VHF/700/800, VHF/UHF combinations..... they wanted VHF to use the old PSP freqs for backup to opensky while also having interop communications with the locals.

If the vehicle has a V/7/8 combo, u can't move it to Allegheny County from washington county after say the vehicle was out of service due to an accident, repaired and returning to service in another barracks. Now u have to swap radio/etc.

Radio breaks- oops we sent the wrong band unit out..... uh oh....
APX8000 and 8500 with all bands on is where PSP is headed.. Other agencies may do the same, but may opt for single band radios. Time will tell on that.

 

[trentbob]

Okay, I live on the eastern part of the state compared to the western part of the state... population-wise?, oh well, just forget it, what's the point?

I carry an apx 7000, obsolete or not, that's the radio of record in Bucks County and that's the radio that communicates with the State Police Turnpike or otherwise. I'm out of my league here. I've noticed there is never any participation from the eastern part of the state on this thread. Certainly vehicles can be dispatched to any part of the state as ... Troopers can be . 73s. Sorry I dipped my beak in.

 

[redbeard]

I'd like to point out that it seems to make more sense to me to put the mobile extenders in UHF to prevent desense with 700 being closer to 800 than UHF.

 

[redbeard]

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fccProx&lat=40.03661&lon=-79.49536&r=0.1

This is the site I thought could be a possibility for site 66 given the name and the fact that PEMA is there along with Fayette Co. It doesn't seem to have a state tower name/designation like FAYE60 does and there is Opensky at FAYE60... And it was mentioned about microwave having to move first which might not be an issue at a site where Opensky already is... I dunno thinking out loud.

 

[GTR8000]

I carry an apx 7000, obsolete or not, that's the radio of record in Bucks County and that's the radio that communicates with the State Police Turnpike or otherwise.

Discontinued, not obsolete. The APX 7000 is still a very capable dual-band radio that is anything but obsolete, and Motorola still supports it via firmware updates and (for the time being) hardware repair. Support will end for the UHF models in mid-2021 and for the VHF and 7/800 models in mid-2023, at which point it will be very tough or impossible to get parts from or repair by Motorola.

 

[talviar]

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fccProx&lat=40.03661&lon=-79.49536&r=0.1

This is the site I thought could be a possibility for site 66 given the name and the fact that PEMA is there along with Fayette Co. It doesn't seem to have a state tower name/designation like FAYE60 does and there is Opensky at FAYE60... And it was mentioned about microwave having to move first which might not be an issue at a site where Opensky already is... I dunno thinking out loud.

Hmm..... Just cause PEMA has the license doesn't mean they pay the tower rent..... My office has been paying the rent and maintenance for the PEMA Repeater at this location since May 1995 and at the prior site since it was installed in 1987....only state License on this tower.

FAYE60 tower is a different Crown Castle tower and is a few miles away on another knob on the mountain. The MW build out for the Opensky system was much different than what was needed for the P25 system. Opensky off this tower was via T1's back to another site. Motorola ASTRO25 7.17 while it will support T1's for backhaul is not a recommended solution as the T1's will need to be ethernet to the router for 7.19

Due to lack of TELCO support for T1's at the old Pondfield Fire Tower (FAYE01) (outage reported by Verizon in weeks and months not minutes and hours) caused the state to use Microwave from FAYE01 to a few of the towers till it could get fiber or other means of backhaul to the core in harrisburg for the opensky system. There was an existing path from FAYE01 to FAYE09 (Ohiopyle Tower). A new hop appears to have been added to the network from FAYE09 to FAYE60. FAYE09 as of this weekend is just a pass thru for MW.

And for the record- before the Crown tower went where Faye60 is- PSP had their antennas on the Fire Tower just a stones throw down the dirt road.....So the state has kept the stuff they use near where it originally went years upen years ago.....

As always- just my $2.25 , no warranty expressed or implied, YMMV, yadda, yadda, etc.........

 

[talviar]

Okay, I live on the eastern part of the state compared to the western part of the state... population-wise?, oh well, just forget it, what's the point?

I carry an apx 7000, obsolete or not, that's the radio of record in Bucks County and that's the radio that communicates with the State Police Turnpike or otherwise. I'm out of my league here. I've noticed there is never any participation from the eastern part of the state on this thread. Certainly vehicles can be dispatched to any part of the state as ... Troopers can be . 73s. Sorry I dipped my beak in.

not sure what Eastern vs Western part of the state has to do with it... My message basically relayed that a PSP Vehicle can show up anywhere in the system as part of normal vehicle fleet assignments. The chances of a State trooper from Uniontown Barracks ending up in Philly on a call is slim to nil. The chances of a usable state police vehicle being assigned from the motor pool in Harrisburg (and possibly a car that was in Philly) going to Uniontown barracks is very high. Asset tracking with vehicles is crazy. Now throw into the mix the radio, and then on top of that the programming..... u get the picture. With an all in one V/U/7/8 radio, the vehicle/radio can be kept together as long as possible and only have to have the programming updated. OTAP and the vehicle info are used to send the correct codeplug to the radio via radio or via WiFi while its parked at the barracks or other such place it has network access.

And before anyone says just program everything into the radio..... The State and many of the countys trunked radio system programmers found an error message in the APX programming software..... "Radio Out of Memory". Basically the radio doesn't have enough ass to handle the entire statewide programming into it...........And that is not just Motorola........

APX 7000, I carry 2 of them.... UHF R2/7/8, VHF/UHF R1, I also carry an APX6000 on 7/8, and an APX8000 V/U/7/8

All are standard as part of the allowable fleet here in ICORRS country. And the APX7000 was end of lifed a while ago and is still under support for a number of years. Replacement model is the APX8000 with what ever bands u want enabled........

There are a handful of us in this thread that work in/for a county with a trunking system that works closely with the state radio people, or work for the state. We are the minority. Many times we are trying to keep the group/list apprised of the real world decisions being made in the background with out saying that...... Take it for what its worth.

Keep on scanning!

 

[u2brent]

This happened on this day..
New 1.65 neighbor and confirmed online today as well.
More to follow. Will be able to check with DSD+ tomorrow for a neighbor list and additional info, but the CC is confirmed on the air with 948 NAC using SDS100.

2019/03/05 15:36:50 Freq=153.447500 NAC=943 BEE00.942-1.65 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.57; CC=0-1109 857.93750 YORK89 800 Gatchellville/York
2019/03/05 15:37:50 Freq=153.447500 NAC=943 BEE00.942-1.65 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.57; CC=0-1253 858.83750 YORK89 800 Gatchellville/York

Site: 1.57 NAC=948 ; YORK89 800 Gatchellville/York

Channel 0-1109: 857.9375 SCC
Channel 0-1253: 858.8375 CC confirmed online

WRAJ230

Hanover & Red Lion may be on already or will be really soon...
Oxford will be online soon as well..

 

[u2brent]

As promised & submitting now.. Got the 8 and the B cornfused yesterday on the NAC displayed on the SDS100.

Site: 1.57 NAC=94B BSI=WRAD754 ; YORK89 800 Gatchellville/York

Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.55 ; YORK35 800 Hanover/York (OFFLINE)
Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.65 ; LANC33 Truce/Lancaster
Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.69 ; CHES96 800 Oxford/Chester (OFFLINE)

Channel 0-581: 854.6375 BSI
Channel 0-933: 856.8375 SCC
Channel 0-1109: 857.9375 SCC
Channel 0-1253: 858.8375 CC

 

[mtindor]

As promised & submitting now.. Got the 8 and the B cornfused yesterday on the NAC displayed on the SDS100.

Site: 1.57 NAC=94B BSI=WRAD754 ; YORK89 800 Gatchellville/York

Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.55 ; YORK35 800 Hanover/York (OFFLINE)
Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.65 ; LANC33 Truce/Lancaster
Neighbor: BEE00.942-1.69 ; CHES96 800 Oxford/Chester (OFFLINE)

Channel 0-581: 854.6375 BSI
Channel 0-933: 856.8375 SCC
Channel 0-1109: 857.9375 SCC
Channel 0-1253: 858.8375 CC



View attachment 69323

Danke, Brent. It's in the DB now, and i added it to "the map".

 

[redbeard]

Due to lack of TELCO support for T1's at the old Pondfield Fire Tower (FAYE01) (outage reported by Verizon in weeks and months not minutes and hours) caused the state to use Microwave from FAYE01 to a few of the towers till it could get fiber or other means of backhaul to the core in harrisburg for the opensky system. There was an existing path from FAYE01 to FAYE09 (Ohiopyle Tower). A new hop appears to have been added to the network from FAYE09 to FAYE60. FAYE09 as of this weekend is just a pass thru for MW.

And for the record- before the Crown tower went where Faye60 is- PSP had their antennas on the Fire Tower just a stones throw down the dirt road.....So the state has kept the stuff they use near where it originally went years up years ago...

Ok, so if we have the site located properly maybe you can advise a better name for it? Rich Hill seems a little north of the location and is a better fit for the site where the PEMA repeater is. Best I can tell that fire tower was called Chestnut Ridge but not 100% on that. A quick look at the PA SCIP and FCC licenses doesn't list any name for FAYE60.

 

[HM1529]

Ok, so if we have the site located properly maybe you can advise a better name for it? Rich Hill seems a little north of the location and is a better fit for the site where the PEMA repeater is. Best I can tell that fire tower was called Chestnut Ridge but not 100% on that. A quick look at the PA SCIP and FCC licenses doesn't list any name for FAYE60.

Also, there is a Rich Hill tower site in Greene Co. for DCNRs conventional repeaters...not that it matters much, though.

 

[mtindor]

New license application for DAUP31 - Grantville, PA (Dauphin)

ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0008552770 - PENNSYLVANIA, COMMONWEALTH OF - Locations Summary

854.4625
854.6875
858.5375
859.5375

The site is between DAUP01 Ellendale and LEBA74 Fort Indiantown Gap