Part 95 rule changes. Finally.

[n1das]

David,

Here's a link that explains why normal (wide) deviation FM has better performance than narrow band. Although it's aimed at the survivalist bunch, it is a very clear and well done explanation. https://radiofreeq.wordpress.com/2016/06/21/fm-versus-nfm-for-best-radio-communications/

73, Greg

Thanks for the link!

 

[12dbsinad]

Having wide mode capability in part 90/95 dual certified equipment potentially creates a problem going forward for new Part 90 equipment. Having wide mode capability effectively would preclude Part 90/95 dual certification because it would preclude Part 90 equipment from being granted Part 90 certification due having wide capability. IIRC, new Part 90 equipment is now required or soon will be required to be narrow-only. A possible work around acceptable to the FCC might be for new Part 90/95 dual certified equipment to have wide capability only on the GMRS primary channels.

Wide mode is slowly going away whether we like it or not.

It's all on knowing the laws in regards to part 90, part 95, wide, narrow etc. I would have to conclude that a majority or GMRS units in use are ONLY part 90 accepted, and that includes repeaters.

Something needs to be done going forward with dual part 90/95 radios as far a deviation. That I agree.

 

[amphibian]

We deny these petitions. As explained above, the ability of GMRS licensees to communicate with each other is essential for the “listen before talk” etiquette, self-policing, and emergency calls that occur on these shared channels, and introducing a new modulation technique that is inconsistent with existing equipment would complicate the shared environment of GMRS channels.

TDMA is DMR and that is narrow band. This 12.5 kHz of bandwidth is then fractured using TDMA to create two time slots. I know what I petitioned for and unlike you hold several licensed part 90 frequency's that I run an IP site connect DMR system on. I did not start doing this stuff 2 months ago like yourself.

"I did not start doing this stuff 2 months ago like yourself." That is an assumption on your part that I just started doing this two months ago.. I'd be careful with assumptions as they have a habit of coming back around and biting one in the backside... I may have just gotten my GMRS License two months ago...but it doesn't mean I haven't been involved in GMRS, the use there of, and been in the radio communications field for only two months.... and such a statement means that one can't control ones anger issues very well which I surely hope is not the case..... just making an observation....

And the part about "the ability of GMRS licensees to communicate with each other is essential for the “listen before talk” etiquette, self-policing, and emergency calls that occur on these shared channels, and introducing a new modulation technique that is inconsistent with existing equipment would complicate the shared environment of GMRS channels" is about as much nonsense as the day is long.....

Just like other bands (can we say hams) DMR and analog can coexist on the same channels... There haven't been any recorded issues of that (not being able to listen before talking and/or emergency calling) on other bands where digital is in use.... All it amounts to is that a certain group of people are afraid of losing their members if GMRS were to be allowed the same opportunities as other bands...

But that's ok, all is good for now. Nothing is lost.... We go on just as before using what we got for now. The future is ahead of us with change. The next go around I plan on having a full force behind the USGMRS Association that will work hard for licensed GMRS users to get the changes so many are and have been asking for and changes that are needed.....


William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

 

[celestis]

§ 95.1751 GMRS station identification.
Each GMRS station must be identified by transmission of its FCC-assigned call sign at the end of transmissions and at periodic intervals during transmissions except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section. A unit number may be included after the call sign in the identification.

(a) The GMRS station call sign must be transmitted:

(1) Following a single transmission or a series of transmissions; and,​

(2) After 15 minutes and at least once every 15 minutes thereafter during a series of transmissions lasting more than 15 minutes​

(b) The call sign must be transmitted using voice in the English language or international Morse code telegraphy using an audible tone.

(c) Any GMRS repeater station is not required to transmit station identification if:

(1) It retransmits only communications from GMRS stations operating under authority of the individual license under which it operates; and,​

(2) The GMRS stations whose communications are retransmitted are properly identified in accordance with this section.​

So if one person and their family is using a repeater they own they can ID like in Part 90 where the Morse ID from the machine is enough?

 

[amphibian]

So if one person and their family is using a repeater they own they can ID like in Part 90 where the Morse ID from the machine is enough?

That is correct.....


William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

 

[KG7LER]

That is correct.....


William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

Incorrect,
It says:
Any GMRS REPEATER station is not required..

Repeater emphasised by me.
The repeater does not have to id as long as the users id there transmissions.

 

[amphibian]

Incorrect,
It says:
Any GMRS REPEATER station is not required..

Repeater emphasised by me.
The repeater does not have to id as long as the users id there transmissions.

I wish you people would read before correcting someone... He ask if he had a repeater that he owned and his family was using it then he could let the repeater ID with Morse id as Part 90 says he can and he is correct...

The FCC rules say that one must ID every fifteen minutes during a conversation....if he owns the repeater and he or his family members are having the conversation then the repeater is legal if it has an auto id'er that id's every fifteen minutes with his call numbers as assigned by the legal authority who issues such authorizations.... the FCC......


William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

 

[KG7LER]

I wish you people would read before correcting someone... He ask if he had a repeater that he owned and his family was using it then he could let the repeater ID with Morse id as Part 90 says he can and he is correct...

The FCC rules say that one must ID every fifteen minutes during a conversation....if he owns the repeater and he or his family members are having the conversation then the repeater is legal if it has an auto id'er that id's every fifteen minutes with his call numbers as assigned by the legal authority who issues such authorizations.... the FCC......


William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

I did read it, and the station (his portable/mobile or base unit has to id, other words every station has to id except for the repeater)

 

[celestis]

I did read it, and the station (his portable/mobile or base unit has to id, other words every station has to id except for the repeater)

I'm pretty sure the FCC intended GMRS as a Part 90 lite and I don't see why what I'm thinking these new ID rules mean isn't correct.

Sure if it's an open repeater, then yes it'd make sense for CW ID to be absent and just have every mobile/portable/base ID using voice like they always have, but if it's just me and my wife's son... why not just let the repeater ID?

 

[KG7LER]

I'm pretty sure the FCC intended GMRS as a Part 90 light and I don't see why what I'm thinking these new ID rules mean isn't correct.

Sure if it's an open repeater, then yes it'd make sense for CW ID to be absent and just have every mobile/portable/base ID using voice like they always have, but if it's just me and my wife's son... why not just let the repeater ID?

If only the repeater id's it is identifying on the repeater output frequency only, you would not be id'ing on the input frequency. you need to id on both freq's

Also to go further, if you are talking on the input tone into the repeater but someone nearby you is only listening on the input tone they would never hear you id at all.

 

[ChitheadDeSo]

Just my two cents I know I haven't been in this long, but the way it reads to me is if it is a private repeater (used by the licensee and those legal to use only under said license) then the morse code is enough. If there will be multiple licensees using this repeater then it's not really worth using the morse code. Since there maybe multiple different licenses being used at the same time. Just my thoughts.

 

[celestis]

Just my two cents I know I haven't been in this long, but the way it reads to me is if it is a private repeater (used by the licensee and those legal to use only under said license) then the morse code is enough. If there will be multiple licensees using this repeater then it's not really worth using the morse code. Since there maybe multiple different licenses being used at the same time. Just my thoughts.

Yeah that's exactly what I took it to mean

 

[Dantian]

Just my two cents I know I haven't been in this long, but the way it reads to me is if it is a private repeater (used by the licensee and those legal to use only under said license) then the morse code is enough.

Enough for what?

The issue is about repeater ID, not user station ID.

Every GMRS user station has to identify. It doesn't matter if the repeater IDs or not, repeater ID doesn't exempt the individual stations from having to ID. They have to. And it doesn't matter if it's one family or 100 using it.

This is a good rule, as it avoids repeaters IDing for no reason.

 

[Dantian]

I did read it, and the station (his portable/mobile or base unit has to id, other words every station has to id except for the repeater)

KG7LER is correct.

 

[Dantian]

if it's just me and my wife's son... why not just let the repeater ID?

Because there's no exemption for you and your wife's son. And it doesn't matter if you're using a repeater or direct (simplex). Each station has to ID.

 

[ChitheadDeSo]

So I guess the way I read it after rereading it multiple times is this. If you set your repeater to ID in morse code every 15 min, and if only those operating under the call sign are using said repeater then it is in accordance with the rules. (I'm not trying to start an argument just making sure all basis are covered in a discussion) However, if multiple licensees will be using said repeater then the morse code is no longer valid and each station must identify through said repeater. That is what I meant about enough. Now with the repeater ID I did not see anything about the repeater itself having to ID. What I am saying is if a licensee wants to ID via morse code on the repeater then it can. If said licensee plans on IDing in plain english within his transmissions then the repeater does not have to also ID via morse code.
I hope I better clarified what I was saying.

 

[amphibian]

If only the repeater id's it is identifying on the repeater output frequency only, you would not be id'ing on the input frequency. you need to id on both freq's

Also to go further, if you are talking on the input tone into the repeater but someone nearby you is only listening on the input tone they would never hear you id at all.

Ok, if this is true, then show us where in the rules, it says exactly that, that one must ID on both the input and output frequency when talking thru a repeater..... I think even FCC staff have enough common sense on this one....but please show us what we all are missing.....

Also, a repeater "repeats" everything it hears if the input signal to the repeater has the proper input tone.... so if someone nearby me is only listening they will hear what ever is being said including the ID that is transmitted on the output side of the repeater just like the voice is.... About 80% of the GMRS repeaters in use today (unlike mine and a few others) only have one input tone and no output tone, So anyone listening would be listening to what ever is being retransmitted as their mobile or portable wouldn't have Tone Coded Squelch activated.... and even if they were like mine where the had multi-input & output tones if the listener takes his mic of hook to make a call or start a conversation or places the device into "monitor mode" they will still hear everything that is being repeated by the the repeater if the repeater is in use... so this logic you have posted doesn't hunt...

and, just about 100% of the people out in this beautiful U S of A that are listening to a GMRS repeater channel, either on a two-way radio device or a scanner, are listening to the output frequency of the repeater and not the output frequency of the mobile, handheld, or control station....

So, if he, and/or his family members that he has authorized to use his own repeater, is using the repeater as a "private repeater", one owned and used only by him and his authorized family members then using a method of auto ID'ing every fifteen minutes would be legal according to the rules.... It's not rocket science as some like to believe it is.....

William R Howell,
GMRS License Call Sign: WQYX489
CEO, USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association
USGMRS Repeater & Users Group Association (usgmrsgroup.club)
FB Group Page: USGMRS Repeater & Users Group

 

[KD8DVR]

So there are no more GMRS only simplex channels or repeater outputs?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Nope. Repeater inputs are the only GMRS only frequencies.

All information constitutes personal opinion only and doesn't imply fact or aaccusation.

 

[Dantian]

So I guess the way I read it after rereading it multiple times is this. If you set your repeater to ID in morse code every 15 min, and if only those operating under the call sign are using said repeater then it is in accordance with the rules.

Then what is in accordance with the rules? Making a repeater ID every 15 minutes, even when no one is using it? What is the point of that?

and if only those operating under the call sign are using said repeater

Under what call sign? It doesn't matter what call sign anyone has, they have to ID regardless of whether the repeater does.

if multiple licensees will be using said repeater then the morse code is no longer valid and each station must identify through said repeater.

There's no 'if'. Each user has to identify. Period. Whether multiple licensees or one licensee makes no difference.

What I am saying is if a licensee wants to ID via morse code on the repeater then it can.

Then what can? The repeater? The repeater can ID, but is not required to ID. The licensee has to ID his or her station; all the stations have to.

If said licensee plans on IDing in plain english within his transmissions then the repeater does not have to also ID via morse code.

Now you've got it.

 

[celestis]

You're forgetting that GMRS was originally intended as a repeater based service intended for families and yes, private repeaters do exist much to the chagrin of most GMRS licensees. Why would the FCC say a repeater doesn't have to ID if the users properly do? Does this not mean that if the users aren't IDing properly that the repeater can ID for them, assuming only one licensee is using the repeater?