Programing a Trunked radio for monitoring only

[Eaton90]

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the Motorola APCO P25 trunking and want to ask here some questions about this system (the radio itself is XTS1500). Here we go:

1. In the Talkgroup layout, field ASTRO 25 Talkgroup I can see IDs, such as 1FA, 5AB and etc. Is there a way to convert these IDs into actual operating frequencies (the band is UHF-L)?

2. Will I be able to hear any traffic if I'm using the clone of the radio which is already working in the TRS? I mean that unit ID of my radio will be the same with someone else's radio already working in the system at that moment...(never mind that it's illegal, the question is just theorethical)

3. Is there a way to make an XTS 2500 not to affiliate with ASTRO trunking system?

Thanks

 

[rescue161]

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the Motorola APCO P25 trunking and want to ask here some questions about this system (the radio itself is XTS1500). Here we go:

1. In the Talkgroup layout, field ASTRO 25 Talkgroup I can see IDs, such as 1FA, 5AB and etc. Is there a way to convert these IDs into actual operating frequencies (the band is UHF-L)?

2. Will I be able to hear any traffic if I'm using the clone of the radio which is already working in the TRS? I mean that unit ID of my radio will be the same with someone else's radio already working in the system at that moment...(never mind that it's illegal, the question is just theorethical)

3. Is there a way to make an XTS 2500 not to affiliate with ASTRO trunking system?

Thanks

1) The only frequencies that you'll see in the programming on a UHF-Low system are the control channel frequencies and the start and stop RX and TX frequencies. The 1FA and 5AB that you speak of are talkgroup IDs, not frequencies.

2) If you clone a radio, the system will more than likely disable both radios. If it's set up to do so, upon seeing two different radios with the same ID, both will be disabled. If the system is not set up that way, then it can work, but as said before, will cause problems for the legit radio if you affiliate to a channel other than what the legit radio is tuned to. During an audit by the system admin, rogue radios that affiliate or that have affiliated in the past will be sent a kill-code anyway. You'll also run into the iButton hardware key issue in the future that will stop the would-be hacker from putting rogue radios on systems where they do not belong.

3) Yes. You'll have to research the hidden talkgoup method developed by ElroyJetson.

4) By all means, I strongly encourage you to reconsider pursuing such avenues.

 

[kb0uxv]

If your going to use the hidden talkgroup method and a hacked system key I would strongly suggest you put your trunking ID as 1, in case you screw up the programming and affiliate.

 

[GroundLoop]

I just want to post and say that as a complete and total newb, I was genuinely wondering the same thing.. would a used/ebay Motorola radio make a better single-system trunking receiver than a Uniden scanner?

It doesn't seem unreasonable, right? The ultra-wideband scanner is a compromise in many areas, and it's clear the public service radios do a better job of receiving weak signals and not dropping calls. A commercial radio intended for the TRS seems like the right piece of hardware for the job, and they're remarkably available and inexpensive.

I just want to point out that not everyone is coming at this with a criminal intent, and it's a very reasonable question to ask.

It seems like there are quite a few ways to 'accidentally transmit' on a radio someone would use as a receive-only system. I'm not sure what the full take-away is from this thread, except that it's clear that programming tools are restricted to certain individuals, and getting the programming right is tricky and prone to error.

Would something like a 1A fuse serve as a failsafe against Tx?
Gutting the exciter seems like the way to go, but again requires specialized knowledge.

 

[Eaton90]

rescue161, thank you!
Could anyone please give me a link where I can study the hidden talkgroup method? I tried yahoo and google searches and it did me no good Just mentions of it but no detailed description

If your going to use the hidden talkgroup method and a hacked system key I would strongly suggest you put your trunking ID as 1, in case you screw up the programming and affiliate.

I use the legit SysKey for our system, but what for do I need to set trunking ID as 1? To make the sysadmin know I'm not an authorized user as soon as possible?

 

[FFPM571]

I doubt anyone here will freely give up the information that is techically Illegal.

 

[kb0uxv]

rescue161, thank you!
Could anyone please give me a link where I can study the hidden talkgroup method? I tried yahoo and google searches and it did me no good Just mentions of it but no detailed description


I use the legit SysKey for our system, but what for do I need to set trunking ID as 1? To make the sysadmin know I'm not an authorized user as soon as possible?

Why do you want to take the back door if you are authorized? If you got the key then have the administrator make you an ID and program up the legal way.

Why 1 you ask? On our system, and probably others, 1 is not a valid ID so if you screw up and affiliate by accident the affiliation would be rejected. If you pick another number you can cause severe problems for the valid user.

 

[Skypilot007]

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the Motorola APCO P25 trunking and want to ask here some questions about this system (the radio itself is XTS1500). Here we go:

1. In the Talkgroup layout, field ASTRO 25 Talkgroup I can see IDs, such as 1FA, 5AB and etc. Is there a way to convert these IDs into actual operating frequencies (the band is UHF-L)?

2. Will I be able to hear any traffic if I'm using the clone of the radio which is already working in the TRS? I mean that unit ID of my radio will be the same with someone else's radio already working in the system at that moment...(never mind that it's illegal, the question is just theorethical)

3. Is there a way to make an XTS 2500 not to affiliate with ASTRO trunking system?

Thanks

Here you are, read through this for starters....

Batboard • Login

 

[xts3000r]

i know motorola has a way to put a radio on any system as a scanner i know the sacramento be has 6 mts2000 and a new xts 2500 all on the srrcs. and they will not tx even with a mic.

 

[WayneH]

i know motorola has a way to put a radio on any system as a scanner i know the sacramento be has 6 mts2000 and a new xts 2500 all on the srrcs. and they will not tx even with a mic.

Many systems where they permit legit radios for monitoring purposes disable "Dispatch" for that specific radio ID. That stops the radio from being able to make a call on a TG. They can go further and permit or deny Private Calls or Call Alert as needed too.

 

[Eaton90]

What is the purpose of the "announcement group"? How can it be defined?
There are 9 districts in our city and each district has it's own announcement group with unique talkgroup IDs. For example district #8 has talkgroups 1481, 1482, 1483 and the announcement group for this district is 800 (district # plus 00).
I want to monitor talkgroups 2001, 1406, 1206 etc. The third digit that should have denoted district # (like 8 in 1482) is zero. What is to be done with the announcement group ID then? Does it matter anything for scan-type monitoring?

 

[kb0uxv]

Announcement groups are used to hail groups of users, for example all law users, or all fire users, or users from one district, or simply all affiliated radio users. I know of some counties that use an announcement group for all radio users so they can notify everyone when there are severe weather alerts. The radio CPS has a special assignment for announcement group (and dynamic regroup, which allows the net management terminal to send a talkgroup to a user). I have no experience with announcement groups so I am not sure if it has a bearing on scan lists. I suspect the announcement group is like anyother type of talkgroup and must be affiliated to unmute.

 

[W2NJS]

Ground Loop wrote above:

"Would something like a 1A fuse serve as a failsafe against Tx?"

The answer is yes, that does work.

 

[davidzimmerman]

i went to the hamfest in butler PA their was a guy who had two portables with him he told me he was going to program a radio to monitor Ohio Marcs so i told him to NOT to even try that but you know his answer was its ok to monitor them and i said get a scanner.well it did not work and i hope he gets into trouble to show him that i was trying to help him.

 

[Eaton90]

Seems like announcement group has no bearing on talkgroup scan method.
I've just received a conversation on a talkgroup absolutely "not matching" with the announcement group value (TG in question was 1206, while the announcement group ,was set to 800 for 8XX talkgroups).
Don't know if it is possible to transmit with the wrong announcement group programmed since I don't have a valid unit ID for that talkgroup

 

[wa1emt]

I have a question.
I have 2 mts2000's that are programmned for receive only on a trunked system. finally got it done and it works fine.
i have 18 sites programmned in with the control channels only.
when i hit the orange button it is supposed to site scan. it says scanning site but that doesnt seem to change anything.
i get site 1,2,3,4 but no others and since it isnt affiliating i have to get it to the site thats closest to me at the time.
any one know whats wrong or any ideas.
any help would be great.
thanks

 

[xts3000r]

i went to the hamfest in butler PA their was a guy who had two portables with him he told me he was going to program a radio to monitor Ohio Marcs so i told him to NOT to even try that but you know his answer was its ok to monitor them and i said get a scanner.well it did not work and i hope he gets into trouble to show him that i was trying to help him.

thats just worng. to hope he gets in to trouble. he just like us. a radio fan. not some al kaida operative. you did your best in tilling him. but if he gets his radio bricked then he will know. you where right

 

[FFPM571]

IS this dead horse beaten enough?

 

[exkalibur]

Hopefully this will help put things to rest:

In terms of the Motorola side, you can absolutely make any of them RX only on a trunking system. Doesn't matter if the system is 3600 or 9600. Anything from an MTX8000 all the way up to the newest APX7000. Doesn't matter if the system is V/U/8 or 9. Pay no attention to those who try and say you can't. You do not need a system key. You do not need to affiliate, nor do you need to hack up the radio in any way.

What you do need is common sense and the knowledge of what you are doing. All too often, people will "half ***" their radios which means you could mess with a Public Safety system. One example - if you were to program your Radio ID to that of a system console (thinking "hey, it'll never get inhibited, it's a console!") and you happen to cause that radio ID to affiliate...guess what happens to the console? Wiped off the system and it can NOT be fixed without re-programming of the console itself. So there's one example of how someone who's well intentioned can easily screw with a system in a bad way. I've also seen people say "program the concentric switch to TX Inhibit in both positions". Negative on that one too, ghost-rider. Both positions assigned the same function nullifies the switch, causing the radio to NOT do TX Inhibit at all.

I hate to sound elitist, but it just gets under my skin when people say "no, you can't" or that "it's impossible" without giving any reasons as to why.

I would echo what most people say however - it is MUCH easier to use a scanner. With a Motorola radio, you're looking at a maximum of 16 talkgroups able to scan at once. A scanner is virtually unlimited. That's one serious down side right there.

Now if Uniden/GRE got their act together and released a scanner that wasn't cheaply built, was built to commercial specs and didn't receive everything BUT what you want to hear, I'd be first in line. I love my 396, I just wish they changed the physical design and made it LOUDer.

 

[jim202]

This question comes up often and as you read through all the replies, you get the feeling that there are two positions. Those that say by inhibiting the transmitter, you prevent the radio from ever sending out it's ID. Then there are those that say you can't totally prevent the radio from ever transmitting. Actually, the second group is correct.

What hasn't been mentioned on any of the comments is that there is a command that the trunking systems have available that will cause any radio on the system to affiliate even though it has been programmed not to do it. This is a system command that many of the systems administrators use in managing their system. It finds boot legged radios on their system and they can then be killed or stunned. Which ever word you want to use, if your radio still has a transmitter in it, some time along the use of that radio, it will be requested to affiliate. When it does, you have been found out and action will be taken.

To those that want to bash these comments, it would be wise to learn how a trunking system functions before you start making statements that you can't back up. I am not taking a position one way or the other, but just passing along some important facts that most of you don't know about. Now you can go do as you please with your trunking radios used for monitoring only.