PSR-500 and PSR-600 Pre Release (Continued)

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n4jri

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wnstrickland said:
So, what if I had the same specs as already given for the PSR-500, with this addition:

Instead of two-state lockouts (i.e., on or off), each channel could be assigned a lockout level (e.g., 0-8). Then an up/down adjustable function would determine the overall lockout level of the scanner; i.e., every channel whose lockout level is less than or equal to the scanner setting would be passed through, and those with higher lockout levels would be locked out (or vice-versa; whatever). Even better would be an 8- or 9-position rotary switch that would select the overall lockout threshold for the scanner. A quick turn would either tighten things down or loosen them up.

I've had similar concerns about ways to thin out or thicken up the scanning plate. But take a good look at that manual and you may find that you're getting something pretty close.

A really good example of this is the 'temporary' lockout which only locks out an object until the scanner is turned off and back on. It's a great way to thin things out without having to search desperately for some individual channel you locked out by mistake.

Another is the 'favorites' scanlist which you can access with one keystroke on the main panel.

Yet another option might be to take advantage of the fact that you can put objects in more than one scanlist. You'd still have to use different scanlists to accomplish your levels of lockout, but at least you wouldn't have to duplicate freqs or TG's for each list. That would save a lot of memory.

The final thing that occurs to me is this new concept where you can have talkgroups from more than one trunked system in a given scanlist. That would allow you to organize any group of scanlists with priority as the only factor. (where on the PRO-96, you can only involve one trunked system per bank)

If you were to organize in this way, you would still have your priority dial, but it would be pushbutton instead of rotary. I get a lot of what you're talking about by carefully organizing the trunked sub-banks on my PRO-96. I've been trying to redesign my memory map to take advantage of these features, and it's looking pretty good on paper. October seems a long way away...

73/Allen (N4JRI)

73/Allen (N4JRI)
 
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dpm3

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I'm wondering if anyone else here has begun to think (dream?) about what features computer control (vs upload/download "objects" and "scan lists") might afford the user. My own experience with such a setup using an Optocom and Probe (Ver 7) has proved very useful and interesting. The ability to keep a log of "hits" (raw count only) on each channel and a scrolling screen of recent hits proved more useful and interesting than one might have imagined when they started using such a setup. Thoughts / wishes / speculation anyone?
 

wnstrickland

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Hypothetical "channel choke"

n4jri said:
I've had similar concerns about ways to thin out or thicken up the scanning plate. But take a good look at that manual and you may find that you're getting something pretty close.
73/Allen (N4JRI)

Using your suggestions, I'm definitely going to dig back into that PDF of the manual.

(My one cursory read wasn't enough, of course. If I can talk myself into pre-ordering a PSR-500, maybe radio lust won't get the better of me! Plus, it's really satisfying to know a complicated piece of equipment pretty well before you actually get your hands on it.)

Thanks!
 

wnstrickland

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PC control & logging [of GRE radios, of course]

dpm3 said:
I'm wondering if anyone else here has begun to think (dream?) about what features computer control (vs upload/download "objects" and "scan lists") might afford the user. My own experience with such a setup using an Optocom and Probe (Ver 7) has proved very useful and interesting. The ability to keep a log of "hits" (raw count only) on each channel and a scrolling screen of recent hits proved more useful and interesting than one might have imagined when they started using such a setup. Thoughts / wishes / speculation anyone?

I have no experience with automated scan logging. But, as I've witnessed squelch tone numbers, etc., I've thought logging could help me decide whether one frequency should be entered into two channels with different squelch tones and different ID's. (I can't watch the display all the time, and I don't want to store the tone with the frequency if I'll be missing another user. Does this make sense? I only barely know what I'm talking about.)

A record of new talk groups would be great, especially if the system ID is recorded along with them. And if I could just go to work and come home to find a full spectrum sweep of data, that would be helpful, too. (Does computer-control software normally allow something like "record the fact that there's voice on the frequency, but then go ahead with the sweep"?)

I seem to recall in the PSR-500 manual a choice of channels/second speed when searching (or sweeping). I presume that scanning too rapidly reduces sensitivity. It's probably a quantum-thing. Does typical control software allow for tweaking the channels/sec. number?

(Sorry. I know this isn't helpful, but I'm curious!)
 

JASII

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PC control & logging [of GRE radios, of course]

I have some experience with PC control and unattended logging, but with a Uniden Bearcat 796 and 996. One of my goals back when was to attempt to confirm as many conventional frequency PL/DPL combinations as possible within my listening range.

When I used a Uniden Bearcat 796 under Butel ARC250 control I would do one routine where I would use almost all 1,000 conventional channels. With the software I could program seven conventional frequencies with all possible PL/DPL combinations that the 796 offered. I then would scan under PC control while I was at work. When I returned home I would check the history log to see what channels (RF frequency & PL/DPL co9mbinations) had been active. Then I would add then to a master list I was keeping. It was interesting to try and determine who the users were. Sometimes it was simple because I would enter the frequency into the FCC database listen while I was working at the computer and then when I heard activity I would try to determine if the activity matched any of the traffic I was hearing. Sometimes it was easy to determine quite quickly and others I never did determine the identity of the users. Usually the scanner would have channels locked out when I determined who the user was and then I would concentrate on the unknowns. I seemed to get several local college/university security and maintenance channels that way as well as other disparate business users.

If I recall correctly the BC796 also gave the option of searching up to 10 different search ranges under a single PL/DPL. That, too, was a good way to determine various users that had been previously unknown to me. The BC996 will not operate in this manner.

The BC996 does have a lot of memory, however, and offers a few more PL/DPL choices. I actually prefer "searching" in this manner than conventional searching in some cases. One of the reasons for that in my case is reducing the effects of "falsing". The best way for me to explain that is by example. Say I am doing plain searching under PC control and I see a hit on the history log of 155.610 with a PL of 131.8 hZ. I will scrutinize that and think that is an unlikely combination in my area. Then if I hear it live I realize it is actually mixing, intermodulation, front end overload, or even adcajent channel interference.

The other thing that can be kind of interesting when doing snooping of this sort is to also have the ability to listen on another receiver. In my case I have a Yaesu FT-8800 and it can be interesting to listen to certain things on that at the same time I am listening on a scanner. Needless to say, good feedline and good antennas are a must. I have even gone so far as to tune two frequencies simultaneously on the two FT-8800 displays with different PL/DPLs on each. It can to interesting to hear what happens when one channel becomes active and then the second one simultaneously to hear the FM capture effect happening. In fact, sometimes you will even hear the end users commenting about hearing other users on the radio.

When the GREs come out, I suspect the Gommert will have Butel software available within a matter of time. I look forward to logging federal frequencies along with their PL/DPLs, if in the analog modulation mode, and the correct NAC code(s) if they are P-25 modulation. I rather doubt that there will be a whole lot of carrier squelch channels on public safety and business FM frequencies. There will be some, of course, but I much prefer to know the PL/DPL of a channel if I can. And with the forthcoming GREs, I look forward to logging the NAC codes as well.
 

n4jri

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wnstrickland said:
I have no experience with automated scan logging. But, as I've witnessed squelch tone numbers, etc., I've thought logging could help me decide whether one frequency should be entered into two channels with different squelch tones and different ID's. (I can't watch the display all the time, and I don't want to store the tone with the frequency if I'll be missing another user. Does this make sense? I only barely know what I'm talking about.)

A record of new talk groups would be great, especially if the system ID is recorded along with them. And if I could just go to work and come home to find a full spectrum sweep of data, that would be helpful, too. (Does computer-control software normally allow something like "record the fact that there's voice on the frequency, but then go ahead with the sweep"?)

I seem to recall in the PSR-500 manual a choice of channels/second speed when searching (or sweeping). I presume that scanning too rapidly reduces sensitivity. It's probably a quantum-thing. Does typical control software allow for tweaking the channels/sec. number?

(Sorry. I know this isn't helpful, but I'm curious!)

I certainly think it's time to pursue that. Even on a laptop, you could control the scanner via the USB port, and still run scanner audio into the sound chip. And in these days of 120 GB hard drives and 4 GB flash drives, we should be able to store a fair amount of audio. I'd love to have this capability for the military air band.

73/Allen (N4JRI)
 

DaveIN

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I'd bet not less than the $399.95 sale price that Radio Shack has set in the past and I'm sure the PSR-500 will be at $500 for some time at the internet dealers. When Radio Shack finally discontinues the 96 then you may see some interesting prices at local stores.
 

n4jri

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I seem to recall someone saying that a good portion of the price involves paying royalties or licensing fees to track the trunking systems. That would make it tough to make these things dirt cheap.

Also remember that the PSR500 is a more advanced radio, but not to the point of making the PRO-96 obsolete. I don't see teh PRO-96 going over the hill unless rebanding requires more trunking tables than it has on board.

73/Allen (N4JRI)
 

DaveIN

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n4jri said:
I seem to recall someone saying that a good portion of the price involves paying royalties or licensing fees to track the trunking systems. That would make it tough to make these things dirt cheap.

Also remember that the PSR500 is a more advanced radio, but not to the point of making the PRO-96 obsolete. I don't see teh PRO-96 going over the hill unless rebanding requires more trunking tables than it has on board.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

I think the royalty is for the vocoder used in each radio to the tune of $100, but if it is discontinued, then it may not matter.
 

scannerfreak

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DaveIN said:
I think the royalty is for the vocoder used in each radio to the tune of $100, but if it is discontinued, then it may not matter.


Just curious as to where this dollar figure came from. Neither manufacture has ever publicly stated the cost.
 

n4voxgill

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radio shack ordered scanners from GRE in large lots. Then RS distributed them. You are now going to have individual stores order small quantities, thus higher price. How many independant dealers have discounted the 396 a hundred dollars. None that I know of.
 

John_M

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I don't care if it says RadioShack on it if I can get it for $100 less. Might have to wait awhile for the PSR-500s to go on sale though.
 

proquist96

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I hope that GRE is not putting out these new cpu upgradable scanners because of rebanding issues (if any) with the pro96. And i wonder if any upgrades for the psr-500 will also work for the 96.
 

UPMan

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And i wonder if any upgrades for the psr-500 will also work for the 96.

No for two reasons (although either one would suffice):

1) The PRO-96 CPU cannot be firmware updated.
2) The "architecture" of the two scanners is radically different.
 

n4jri

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proquist96 said:
I hope that GRE is not putting out these new cpu upgradable scanners because of rebanding issues (if any) with the pro96.

I'm sure that's part of it. The PRO96 has rebanding capability up to a point, but we're still not sure what's required. But remember that it's a 4-year old model, which has no LTR capability, can't read P25 trunking tables, and which has no equivalent of Signal-Stalker or Close-Call.

Uniden moved on to the next level, and now GRE logically wants to move beyond what Uniden did with the 396. PRO-96 users have been making their new-model wish lists known for some time now, and GRE has obviously been giving some thought to user-friendliness. The ad copy alone makes this pretty clear, and the intro text in the manual really spells it out.

I see nothing wrong with the PRO-96, and it looks right now that it'll do okay with rebanding. But now it's possible to have a much more capable radio in a similar price range, and make a lot of customer wishes come true. From the Pop'Comm ad for September, it looks like most of mine have been taken care of!

73/Allen (N4JRI)
 

kikito

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proquist96 said:
I hope that GRE is not putting out these new cpu upgradable scanners because of rebanding issues (if any) with the pro96. And i wonder if any upgrades for the psr-500 will also work for the 96.
Short response:

The new scanners have so many new features and improvements that it's obvious that rebanding was probably a very minor reason, if at all.

Long-winded response:

I don't think we can expect them to put out a scanner that will work forever on any new systems and technology that come out years later down the road. Especially with all the changes alone that have happened within our hobby and related technology in the past 3-5 years. Even more, when some of the changes that happened were beyond their control i.e. rebanding. The same will happen a few years from now when P25 Phase 2 starts getting implemented and widely used.

It's the never ending game of catch-up with technology.... Keep up or quit! :lol:
 

DaveIN

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X_Ray, it's been mentioned that the radio firmware can be upgraded by the owner through the PC/IF port. When needed, GRE can then release software to modify the radio band plan.
 

mancow

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Likely a re-flash option that's released via some website download.

x_ray_81 said:
i do not know if this has been answered yet,how is the gre..psr500 going to deal with re-banding. regards dave.
 
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