Reviving amateur radio was: Since It's Marketed as a Ham Radio..,

[kc2asb]

6 pages in the thread below about reviving interest in the hobby. The conclusion is that amateur radio has lost its exclusivity to other technologies that interest younger people and that it will take dynamic, creative people to inspire interest in the hobby in others. However, no concrete ideas of how to inspire this interest were really proposed.

I don't have any answers, just questions. How do we convince young people that talking on radio to others locally and around the world is "magical" when they can use the phone in their hands to do the exact same thing? How many schools have amateur radio clubs these days? Or how many young people have friends, relatives, neighbors, etc that are into the hobby? This was the usual gateway for people entering the hobby and it's being lost.

Making the most of whats left of the VHF/UHF bands

Ofcom...so you must be in the UK? I've noticed that 2 meter/440 is kind of situational. Drives times, special events, disasters it lights up. But K9KLC is right, for daily chatting HF is pretty awesome. If you are in the UK then you'd have all of Europe to talk to, and you can do it with a...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[MTS2000des]

The problem isn't limited to amateur radio. Modern humans are being made dumber by design. They get handed a tablet/phone and learn only to swipe for gratification. The days when people went out, explored the world and discovered what makes things tick are coming to an end. The modern human only wants to "sustain and maintain" what is already there. Things like AI are taking over for critical thinking.

Other hobbies are also in such a state. Audiophiles are now just ear bud wearers with overpriced streaming music players. There isn't much compelling audio gear like there was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. All of it comes from a few makers and it's basically all the same under the hood. Very little innovation in actual sound reproduction.

Photography is all about the latest smartphone and while DSLRs are still being made, it's only a matter of time before people loose interest in mastering an art because machines do it for us.

There will always be those few who refuse to conform and have a thirst and quest for learning, but who will do the teaching?

 

[K9KLC]

You attacked the radio in your first sentence and that is the only thing I replied to and might agree with some of your other point. But "you run with what you are comfortable with"and just doing an INTERNET search, what a dead end for really getting to know about radios and the hobby (it turn us into appliance operators just buying from a "catalog"--particularly when a radio with unusual features is so cheap that finding out the truth is inexpensive.

I guess I just rely on a "couple" of years of experience to make my decisions and hundreds of tests in service monitors of various CCR radios. And let it go at that.

My other point is I don't need a "new" radio and probably won't in the rest of my lifetime so any money even 30 bucks would be a waste to me.

I didn't attack the the radio, I attacked the price and his commitment prior to making the statement ham radio is dead on VHF and UHF. It may be a great radio but with no external antenna and testing (read more money) I'm confused how he's decided this.

Lastly I've owned a lot of radios in my lifetime. It's certainly not a dead end to read specs and decide I don't need that If you're not basing your purchases on the specifications of the unit, I'd be curious to know what you do base them on.

 

[kc2asb]

The problem isn't limited to amateur radio. Modern humans are being made dumber by design. They get handed a tablet/phone and learn only to swipe for gratification. The days when people went out, explored the world and discovered what makes things tick are coming to an end. The modern human only wants to "sustain and maintain" what is already there. Things like AI are taking over for critical thinking.

Other hobbies are also in such a state. Audiophiles are now just ear bud wearers with overpriced streaming music players. There isn't much compelling audio gear like there was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. All of it comes from a few makers and it's basically all the same under the hood. Very little innovation in actual sound reproduction.

Photography is all about the latest smartphone and while DSLRs are still being made, it's only a matter of time before people loose interest in mastering an art because machines do it for us.

There will always be those few who refuse to conform and have a thirst and quest for learning, but who will do the teaching?

You are spot on here, IMHO. AI will be our downfall. I already ignore anyone who uses AI results as a source. Wasn't there a sci-fi story or TV show about a formerly advanced civilization that did not know how to repair the machines left by their ancestors? We may be headed there as a species.

 

[dlwtrunked]

I guess I just rely on a "couple" of years of experience to make my decisions and hundreds of tests in service monitors of various CCR radios. And let it go at that.

My other point is I don't need a "new" radio and probably won't in the rest of my lifetime so any money even 30 bucks would be a waste to me.

I didn't attack the the radio, I attacked the price and his commitment prior to making the statement ham radio is dead on VHF and UHF. It may be a great radio but with no external antenna and testing (read more money) I'm confused how he's decided this.

Lastly I've owned a lot of radios in my lifetime. It's certainly not a dead end to read specs and decide I don't need that If you're not basing your purchases on the specifications of the unit, I'd be curious to know what you do base them on.

Although I do read the specs (with a PhD in mathematics, I pay attention to those numbers), owning one of a model outdoes specs to experience the radio particularly when it has features not in other radios. A main with this one is an open firmware (you did not see specs describing that) that several different groups have modified to add uncommon features that are not really experienced with reading hardware specs. I am sitting in front of at least a dozen radios or receivers. I judge each worth keeping for one reason or another. Getting into the worth or weakness of each is interesting to me as it is new. If the hobby is to continue, I believe it will only do so via the interests that it develops with new and unusual radios. An open firmware like the radio he has is a start in that direction. People in the future will/have mostly replace rag chewing with INTERNET. But discovering new capabilities in new hardware will continue. (By the way, I bought my first shortwave over 55 years ago, my most expensive receiver was over $14,000. I own modern spectrum analyzers and tracking generators in the $4000 range (and use them), so I have been around a long time too--and although 2 years older than you, I definitely expect to buy more radios in the future. We have different views of radios and the hobby (certainly allowed).

 

[ecps92]

The problem isn't limited to amateur radio. Modern humans are being made dumber by design. They get handed a tablet/phone and learn only to swipe for gratification. The days when people went out, explored the world and discovered what makes things tick are coming to an end. The modern human only wants to "sustain and maintain" what is already there. Things like AI are taking over for critical thinking.

Other hobbies are also in such a state. Audiophiles are now just ear bud wearers with overpriced streaming music players. There isn't much compelling audio gear like there was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. All of it comes from a few makers and it's basically all the same under the hood. Very little innovation in actual sound reproduction.

Photography is all about the latest smartphone and while DSLRs are still being made, it's only a matter of time before people loose interest in mastering an art because machines do it for us.

There will always be those few who refuse to conform and have a thirst and quest for learning, but who will do the teaching?

Everything you think, do and say
Is in the pill you took today

Zager and Evans ‧ 1969

 

[K9KLC]

Although I do read the specs (with a PhD in mathematics, I pay attention to those numbers), owning one of a model outdoes specs to experience the radio particularly when it has features not in other radios. A main with this one is an open firmware (you did not see specs describing that) that several different groups have modified to add uncommon features that are not really experienced with reading hardware specs. I am sitting in front of at least a dozen radios or receivers. I judge each worth keeping for one reason or another. Getting into the worth or weakness of each is interesting to me as it is new. If the hobby is to continue, I believe it will only do so via the interests that it develops with new and unusual radios. An open firmware like the radio he has is a start in that direction. People in the future will/have mostly replace rag chewing with INTERNET. But discovering new capabilities in new hardware will continue. (By the way, I bought my first shortwave over 55 years ago, my most expensive receiver was over $14,000. I own modern spectrum analyzers and tracking generators in the $4000 range (and use them), so I have been around a long time too--and although 2 years older than you, I definitely expect to buy more radios in the future. We have different views of radios and the hobby (certainly allowed).

As you stated. Differing opinions are great. I fully support your decision to do things the way you do them. I never had the opportunity to spend 14,000 on a receiver and truthfully don't know I ever would have. My first receiver my parents old console Stewart Warner when I was 10 which was 60 years ago. ( wish I still had it).

I never said I would never buy another radio. I said I don't think I'd buy a "new" radio. As in brand new out of the box. No point to me.

I wish you the best in the hobby. I'll do my thing for the hobby and you do yours. Hopefully between the two of us, on different ends of the spectrum we can somehow help.

73- Greg.

 

[kc2asb]

If the hobby is to continue, I believe it will only do so via the interests that it develops with new and unusual radios. An open firmware like the radio he has is a start in that direction. People in the future will/have mostly replace rag chewing with INTERNET. But discovering new capabilities in new hardware will continue.

New and unusual radios will undoubtedly appeal to people already in the hobby, but getting new people involved is essential to its continuance. New equipment will only continue to be developed if manufacturers determine there is sufficient demand for it. IMHO.

 

[dlwtrunked]

As you stated. Differing opinions are great. I fully support your decision to do things the way you do them. I never had the opportunity to spend 14,000 on a receiver and truthfully don't know I ever would have.

I had a week moment of insanity.

My first receiver my parents old console Stewart Warner when I was 10 which was 60 years ago. ( wish I still had it).

My first was a E.H. Scott. Chassis was in two with all of it being polished steel? (No cabinet). It was a shortwave receiver with 23 tubes in total. Lots of push-pull circuits. The power supply and audio chassis had problems but I fixed that by using and old 5U4 supply from a TV and a transistor audio amp (I think I bought that amp from Olsons.) I bought the E.F. Scott receiver from a huge Saturday Amish flea market for $20...they did not know what it was and I do not know why it was there. I gave it to one of my brothers who was a ham who threw it away when he could not get it to work. (Even not working it was worth over $1000 at the time.) If only experiences like that could bring people today into the hobby. The main chassis looked like this one:

A NEW 23

 

[K9KLC]

I had a week moment of insanity.



My first was a E.H. Scott. Chassis was in two with all of it being polished steel? (No cabinet). It was a shortwave receiver with 23 tubes in total. Lots of push-pull circuits. The power supply and audio chassis had problems but I fixed that by using and old 5U4 supply from a TV and a transistor audio amp (I think I bought that amp from Olsons.) I bought the E.F. Scott receiver from a huge Saturday Amish flea market for $20...they did not know what it was and I do not know why it was there. I gave it to one of my brothers who was a ham who threw it away when he could not get it to work. (Even not working it was worth over $1000 at the time.) If only experiences like that could bring people today into the hobby. The main chassis looked like this one:

A NEW 23

That E. H. Scott looks awesome. I'm not sure I ever saw one prior to this. I worked on a lot of different ones thru out the years but I cannot say I ever worked on one of those. Thanks for sharing.

There are still people even younger people that are fascinated by various things in this hobby. We've (our club) recently brought some Jr. High kids into the fold and their quest for knowledge is amazing. One recently expressed interest in possibly seeing my old Drakes rather than this "new stuff" as he called it. I'm going to try and arrange for that, they've sat all too long. While only The TR-4 and RV-3, Yes the TR 4 is so early they and't come out with the RV-4 yet) I think it will be a good opportunity. I may try and get my other TR-4 going (sat idle for years now) and honestly get it going on 10 meters and let him play with it some. I'm frankly amazed at what some of these "kids"want to see that is to me a blast from the past.

The thing is, ham radio has been for years now, different things to different people. It was NEVER intended to be a hobby for everyone, and although now, it seems we've approached that point, there are so many things to do, that Person A never has to try what person B likes in order to get enjoyment out of the hobby, and that's ok.

I've had some weak moments of insanity also like buying an IFR 1200 super S new from IFR some years ago (likely 95 or so) so I do understand that phrase.

I've enjoyed our exchange, different attitudes are what makes life great. Thanks. 73

 

[ladn]

Photography is all about the latest smartphone and while DSLRs are still being made, it's only a matter of time before people loose interest in mastering an art because machines do it for us.

I partly agree. I'm an imaging professional. I started out using a Kodak "Brownie" camera and 620 Verichrome Pan film.

I still use my high end DSLR equipment for critical work, but I've found the camera in my Samsung smartphone to be quite adequate for non-critical, casual, work and "snapshots". There's more to photography than merely the technical aspects. Building blocks of a quality image include things like lighting and composition which are (mostly) independent of the hardware used to capture an image.

Professional and prosumer cameras are now transitioning from DSLR cameras (which have a mirror and optical viewing path to enable "thru the lens" viewing), to "mirrorless" cameras which capture the viewing / focusing image directly from the sensor and display it on a video screen in the viewfinder or on the back of the camera.

 

[MTS2000des]

As someone who managed a C-41/RA-4 lab in the late 1990s to early 2000s, I got out before minilabs that used to be on every corner in every drug store are now a thing of the past. The PMA used to say "if you didn't get the print, you didn't get the picture". Today, there are very flew places that make actual RA-4 prints from digital or analog sources. Most photo prints are done on small kiosks with dye-sub or inkjet printers.

 

[kc2asb]

As someone who managed a C-41/RA-4 lab in the late 1990s to early 2000s, I got out before minilabs that used to be on every corner in every drug store are now a thing of the past. The PMA used to say "if you didn't get the print, you didn't get the picture". Today, there are very flew places that make actual RA-4 prints from digital or analog sources. Most photo prints are done on small kiosks with dye-sub or inkjet printers.

We had several photo developing labs in my town when I was growing up. It was exciting to pick up the prints and finally see how the photos came out. Now it's instant gratification with digital photography. Not knocking digital, not at all, but print developing is an art form all its own. Most of us are not professional photographers, but a good lab technician would make sure that each print looked the best it possibly could.

 

[ladn]

...print developing is an art form all its own. Most of us are not professional photographers, but a good lab technician would make sure that each print looked the best it possibly could.

Yes and no.
Most consumer level film printing was done on semi-automated equipment. You'd feed the freshly processed, uncut film in and the machine would color analyze each frame and make the exposure on to roll paper which then was processed in an automatic processer. The operators were "appliance operators" who weren't much more than store clerks who received minimal training.

Depending on the lab, a technician would view the finished prints as the moved through the cutter and could reprint any that looked abnormally off color (and also check for porn). Better labs had skilled operators who could take more time with each print (usually with enlargements).

These processing systems (both film and print) used control strips that were periodically run for quality control (color / exposure calibration and chemical replenishment). This was especially important on Kodachrome, E-4/E-6 color slide processing lines.

Higher end/professional labs had well trained/expert level technicians making custom prints by hand on enlargers (just like in the movies). Processing (at least for color) was done on a machine that was meteorically maintained.

I used Costco for much of my basic color print processing and 4x6 proofing. The quality was acceptable and the price was right. One time I had several rolls of Fujicolor (print) film processed with 4x6 prints. When I did a quick quality review at the counter, I found the prints to be consistently off color, including the normally white print borders. This is indicative of contaminated or expired processing chemistry.

I called this to the attention of one of the associates and asked her to have the whole batch reprinted on Costco's dime. She proceeded to give me some technobabble about how this was caused by my lighting and exposure/film headlining techniques and I'd have to pay for reprints. Had I been a regular customer, I would have felt reprimanded and intimidated, then shelled out for the reprints.

Instead, I asked her to get her manager and explain to him what she told me, which she did with authoritarian glee. When she was finished, I said what I did for a living and agreed that it's possible for the prints to be off color because of lighting/exposure issues on my part (even though the images were shot at different times, locations and lighting conditions), but the only explanation for discolored print borders was contaminated/expired processing chemistry. I mentioned things like questioning when the last control strips were run and it was poor operating practice why this wasn't caught at post printing QA.

My order was reprinted within the hour, and my charges were completely refunded. I never saw that technician again in the store.

 

[AK9R]

Meanwhile...back to amateur radio.

 

[Golay]

I gotta say this.

I think repeaters would be more active if the trustees used their own machines a little more often.

Here in Metro Detroit, I can think of many machines that have more than a couple trustees/co-owners/whatever you want to call it. Yet few throw their call out when they get in the car. Many don't even carry a handheld when they leave the house, or have a radio in their car. If I was a co-owner or trustee of a repeater, myself and the other trustees would literally have an hour long sked in the evening where we talked back and forth, to encourage others listening to jump in. And I'd carry a handheld as much as I carried my phone.

Years ago, I tried something on a repeater I knew had SIX trustees. Someone threw their call out. I dragged my feet about 10 seconds and then came back to them. We did the usual back and forth for a few, then I asked them this question just to see something:

"During a thunderstorm, do you disconnect your feedlines and leave them hanging, or do you tie them to a ground".
(please don't answer that question, it's not the point of the post).

FOUR out of the SIX trustees came out of the woodwork with their "expert" opinion. FOUR trustees that heard this guy throw his call out on THEIR machine but chose not to go back to him.

 

[kc2asb]

I think repeaters would be more active if the trustees used their own machines a little more often.

FOUR out of the SIX trustees came out of the woodwork with their "expert" opinion. FOUR trustees that heard this guy throw his call out on THEIR machine but chose not to go back to him.

Great point. Repeater systems are not cheap to build and maintain. It makes no sense for a machine to be mostly inactive save for the automated ID.

That being said, many hams won't respond to new licensees and/or those who are not part of their inner-circle. Clique mentality is part of life and is not unique to amateur radio, but the wrong attitude in a hobby whose future depends on new entrants keeping the bands alive.

 

[cactus360]

You are spot on here, IMHO. AI will be our downfall. I already ignore anyone who uses AI results as a source. Wasn't there a sci-fi story or TV show about a formerly advanced civilization that did not know how to repair the machines left by their ancestors? We may be headed there as a species.

Agreed, AI is a part of the problem. I notice when I now Google, they have their AI response at the top of the page. It can be handy. But when I need "take it to the bank" information such as radio capability and FCC regulations I always visit the appropriate website and sometimes find discrepancies compared to AI answers.

Also agree, actually getting in front of young people, engaging them, teaching" and demonstrating about any hobby or passion is key. I see it as one way in keeping future generations interested in activities getting taken over by technology. That can be HAM, GMRS, Photography, cooking, amateur astronomy, you name it.

I think the future of many passion activities and hobbies lie in not so much showing how "magical" they are when new technology seems a lot newer and shinny. And in reality I have to admit might actually be a bit more magical as far as capability and ease of use. Sorry, no putting that genie back in the bottle for a lot of todays younger folks.

Checking out youtube and other sites it seems apparent to me. There is a huge base of HAM, GMRS, CB and even FRS users who primarily want to use radio for communications with family, friends, and communicating with local preparedness groups during possible emergencies (perceived SHTF scenarios) or when cell phone infrastructure goes down. I think engaging these folks will be key in keeping all the radio services active.

In my opinion, if you can show young people how interesting, unique, fun, non-conforming, advantageous and sometimes yes, even a little rebellious or punk rock, activities like HAM radio are you are more likely to attract new users. The user base may not be as large as in the past, but they will be committed.

 

[mmckenna]

if you can show young people how interesting, unique, fun, non-conforming, advantageous and sometimes yes, even a little rebellious or punk rock, activities like HAM radio are you are more likely to attract new users. The user base may not be as large as in the past, but they will be committed.

One of the things I've witnessed is that when the 70 and 80 year old hams try to relate the hobby to the younger generation, it quickly goes into what the kids call "Cringe".

Amateur radio needs to stand on its own, without making it rebellious or punk rock. Trying to disguise it as something it isn't is the quickest way to get it exposed.

There are plenty of younger people that are interested in the hobby. It's not at the levels it once was, and it'll never be there again. Attempts to make it that way are going to fail. Acknowledging that technology and society have long since moved on is key.
Amateur radio needs to reinvent itself to meet up with modern technology and society. Problem is that the geezers at ARRL and the angry old hams are not able or willing to do this. There are those that have jammed a stick in the ground back in the 1980's as the exact point in time when ham radio was perfect, and refuse to let it move forward.

Time for amateur radio to enter the 21st century, reinvent itself, and get over the fact that consumer technology long since left it in the dust.

I doubt it's possible at this point, it's going to take way more than some octogenarians trying to pretend that it is "cool" or "hip".

 

[kc2asb]

Also agree, actually getting in front of young people, engaging them, teaching" and demonstrating about any hobby or passion is key. I see it as one way in keeping future generations interested in activities getting taken over by technology. That can be HAM, GMRS, Photography, cooking, amateur astronomy, you name it.

In my opinion, if you can show young people how interesting, unique, fun, non-conforming, advantageous and sometimes yes, even a little rebellious or punk rock, activities like HAM radio are you are more likely to attract new users. The user base may not be as large as in the past, but they will be committed.

I agree about getting in front of them and engaging them, but there has to be a venue for doing so. It used to be the amateur radio club at school, or a friend/relative/neighbor, etc who would inspire the interest. Will hams go to schools and speak about the hobby? Maybe public exhibits of radios at street fairs, etc are another way.

Over 25 years ago, our club (now defunct) set up a booth at the outdoor town fair. We had working radios and would make contacts for people that stopped by. We had literature about the club, the hobby, licensing/testing, etc. The result of our 2 1/2 day exhibit was one member, a 15/16 year old. He did get his license, bought a radio, and came to meetings for a couple of months. After that, he disappeared. And this was back when cellphones/internet were just beginning to be adopted by the public in large numbers.

You are 100% right about the approach. How to effectively put it into action is not so clear to me.