San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

KD6JEK

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All commonly-available scanners except the SDS100/200 are susceptible to simulcast distortion (Unication G-series digital voice pagers are also "immune"). It all depends on your location relative to the transmitters. If you're in a spot where the signal from one transmitter is very strong relative to the others, you may do just fine with a traditional scanner. If you move around, you'll likely have good experience in some areas, and bad experience in others.
Thank you for the explanation. I'm hoping I can get by without having to shell out for the SDS-100. I have just heard too many complaints and issues with it and Uniden's lack of customer service.
 

nokoa3116

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If it's moderately bad, it may sound garbled - you may get a few words sounding normal, then garble-garble, then more words. If it's really bad, it may not even be able to decode the control channel, so you won't hear (or see) anything at all.
Thank you for the explanation. I'm hoping I can get by without having to shell out for the SDS-100. I have just heard too many complaints and issues with it and Uniden's lack of customer service.
I have the SDS 100 and when I use it with EBRCS which is simulcast, it works quite well. You can also just use an SDR, with softwares such as OP25, SDRTrunk, TrunkRecorder. An RTL SDR goes for about $25+.
 

mlangeveld

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I'm curious exactly how that is going to work. Are they going to toggle encryption on and off? Are they going to encrypt A2/A4/A6/A8 and leave A1/A3/A5/A7 in the clear? Or are they going to encrypt everything and have an unencrypted "dispatch & disposition" channel?

Sounds like a pain in the butt.
 

franks_ham

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I'm curious exactly how that is going to work. Are they going to toggle encryption on and off? Are they going to encrypt A2/A4/A6/A8 and leave A1/A3/A5/A7 in the clear? Or are they going to encrypt everything and have an unencrypted "dispatch & disposition" channel?

Sounds like a pain in the butt.
If they're using APX, simple concentric switch for ENC/NON-ENC...Easy enough.

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

William2910

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Basically like a cad, seen it in city near me, the dispatch will select 2 talkgroups, one being stepped other being the public one. Information given as needed and like old non repeated microwaves
I'm curious exactly how that is going to work. Are they going to toggle encryption on and off? Are they going to encrypt A2/A4/A6/A8 and leave A1/A3/A5/A7 in the clear? Or are they going to encrypt everything and have an unencrypted "dispatch & disposition" channel?

Sounds like a pain in the butt.

Dont be shocked if all you hear is the dispatch on that particular talkgroup and on and off when its remembered or able in busy peak to do so. Know exactly where they are going with it as a agency by me did this.
 

footage

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As of about 0758 this morning, encryption is now active on some SFPD TGs. Encrypted TGs include 808, 810, 812 and 816. My logs show 824 and 826 as active in the wee hours, but I haven't verified that those transmissions were encrypted. 808 corresponds to A3, 810 to A4, 812 to A5, and 816 to A7 — for now, these channels are also being simulcast on the old analog system as the transition moves forward. Not yet hearing any unencrypted SFPD activity this morning, so cannot yet confirm the report that initial dispatches will be in the clear. SFFD and other agencies that have transitioned to the new system remain in the clear.
 
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mlangeveld

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If they're using APX, simple concentric switch for ENC/NON-ENC...Easy enough.
Yes, I'm aware of user-selectable encryption. It would be cumbersome for officers to have to switch it off at the beginning and end of every call; I don't think that would be a very practical solution.

Basically like a cad, seen it in city near me, the dispatch will select 2 talkgroups, one being stepped other being the public one. Information given as needed and like old non repeated microwaves

Dont be shocked if all you hear is the dispatch on that particular talkgroup and on and off when its remembered or able in busy peak to do so. Know exactly where they are going with it as a agency by me did this.
This would a lot more sense.

As of about 0758 this morning, encryption is now active on some SFPD TGs. Encrypted TGs include 808, 810, 812 and 816. My logs show 824 and 826 as active in the wee hours, but I haven't verified that those transmissions were encrypted. 808 corresponds to A3, 810 to A4, 812 to A5, and 816 to A7 — for now, these channels are also being simulcast on the old analog system as the transition moves forward. Not yet hearing any unencrypted SFPD activity this morning, so cannot yet confirm the report that initial dispatches will be in the clear. SFFD and other agencies that have transitioned to the new system remain in the clear.
Interesting, those are between the existing TGs. Most of the talkgroups carried over from SmartZone are odd numbered on P25.
 

franks_ham

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Yes, I'm aware of user-selectable encryption. It would be cumbersome for officers to have to switch it off at the beginning and end of every call; I don't think that would be a very practical solution.
It's not that cumbersome if you're taught properly during a training day class...I know of a handful of agencies who do it on the fly no problem!

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

ridgescan

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As of about 0758 this morning, encryption is now active on some SFPD TGs. Encrypted TGs include 808, 810, 812 and 816. My logs show 824 and 826 as active in the wee hours, but I haven't verified that those transmissions were encrypted. 808 corresponds to A3, 810 to A4, 812 to A5, and 816 to A7 — for now, these channels are also being simulcast on the old analog system as the transition moves forward. Not yet hearing any unencrypted SFPD activity this morning, so cannot yet confirm the report that initial dispatches will be in the clear. SFFD and other agencies that have transitioned to the new system remain in the clear.
I'm dreading your observations and am in denial, hoping this whole thing will go away like the promise of total 700mHz switch thing did a few years ago. Right as I type, I'm still receiving the whole city as usual, as well as the Sunset/Parkside TG I listen to. But I know I'm gonna lose on this one:(
No matter ultimately as I'm moving out of this dump of a city within the next couple of months. I'm going to Rocklin, Ca. and far as I know, everything I need there is still VHF/UHF.
 

footage

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Yes, I'm aware of user-selectable encryption. It would be cumbersome for officers to have to switch it off at the beginning and end of every call; I don't think that would be a very practical solution.



This would a lot more sense.



Interesting, those are between the existing TGs. Most of the talkgroups carried over from SmartZone are odd numbered on P25.
The even-numbered TGs are fascinating. Some seem to be encrypted. Others are new. Will have to see how these fill out. Would love to see an official list -- which may not be so sensitive given that sensitive TGs are now to be encrypted.
 

mmckenna

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….if you're taught properly during a training day class
Training "day"?

Part of the problem we have with officers is "training day" for radios is about 5 minutes, tops, and covers the on/off/volume and this is the push to talk button.

If they did a full day of radio training, or better yet, required periodic qualification on the radio like they do with fire arms, things would be much better.
 

MtnBiker2005

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footage

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One thing that interests me: the new P25 Phase II system is listed in RR with eight channels, while the two analog systems it replaces have 30 channels assigned. Can anyone verify that the new system is only using eight channels at this time? I would definitely be watching for additional channels as the system fills out.
 

mlangeveld

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One thing that interests me: the new P25 Phase II system is listed in RR with eight channels, while the two analog systems it replaces have 30 channels assigned. Can anyone verify that the new system is only using eight channels at this time? I would definitely be watching for additional channels as the system fills out.
Those are all the ones that have been seen over the past few months, it has been using even fewer channels than that. I have typically seen only 2 active voice channels at any given time. I'm sure we will see more channels moved from SmartZone to P25 as more users transition over.
 

mmckenna

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Sounds like your department needs to do better radio training for your officers / radio users.

RCS does few hours(around 4 hours) radio training in a room for public works, law enforcement officers and Firefighters and many dispatchers radio console classes in San Diego County. Many classes doing non Covid-19 years.
I agree. But I don't think 4 hours is enough. New officers should learn not only the radio, but the system capabilities, as in what it can, and most importantly, cannot do. Knowing the different channels in the radio, what they are used for, and especially what to do when the radio doesn't work the way they want it to.
And then add in periodic refresher training....

Perfect world. Will never happen. Kudos to RCS for doing that. I wish more did.
 
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