I have already seen SFPD as well as even Animal Control using Motorola APX radios for months. Some even years. Not sure if additional purchases need to be made. Maybe just encryption hardware and AES-256 flash upgrade, if they don't already have that. I also noticed that on a quote from Motorola for the city of Palo Alto for APX 7500 Mobiles & 7000 Portables the prices do seem similar. https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/file...er-reports-cmrs/year-archive/2014/id-4236.pdf
San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021
- Thread starter sffire
- Start date
Ironically, Palo Alto PD went full encryption and now the city is trying to change it back…
Oops I had a brain fart. I meant that the initial dispatch will be clear. The disposition at the end of the call will be clear. The rest will be encrypted. So the updates of units arrival, and progress, and everything that goes in between will be encrypted.
I actually think they are still using the original channel layout. Couple weeks ago I saw them still using the encrypted Palo Palo PD 2. I haven’t seen use the Palo Alto PD 1 yet. So they might be holding off on actually implementing the change until they are certain on a plan.
No new radios are being purchased. PD cars have a mobile radio (APX or XTL's), and some may have an old "Low band" radio still installed, but those are phased out. I believe the 7.7mil is for the re-flash software (considering there's 8000+ radios being used in SF). There's also a bunch of ERCC's being replaced, because coverage is so crappy inside buildings, etc.
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Thanks for this! Obviously the writers/editors of the article we have been discussing gave thought to getting too far down in the weeds for the average reader. However those of us interested in the nuts and bolts of these systems like to know how it all works, down to the small details.
I'm not familiar with the term "ERCC," but assume it has something to do with enhancements installed in large buildings to assure radio coverage inside of them. In 1973 I moved out of the megalopolis I grew up in and lived in one smallish city of 30,000. I then moved on to 3 much smaller towns in remote rural areas. The only time I listen to large is when I visit family. The interesting features of P25 trunking systems with interior enhancements to ensure radio coverage inside large buildings are a bit foreign to me. Just being inside a large building is something I rarely experience.
Eng74
Member
Plus the system has to work underground for BART, MUNI, and the new subway that is being put in. But I am sure those costs are divided between all the departments that use the system.
ERRCS are like mini-repeaters used inside buildings, so the radio system attached to it can have coverage.
As for BART, MUNI tunnels, there's going to be system in place wherein certain channels will be patched together for additional coverage.
You may know it as a bi-directional amplifier (BDA) or distributed antenna system (DAS).
I"ve heard of the DAS, but not the BDA. I only now of the DAS because I still follow the L.A. Fire Department pretty closely. LFD not LAC.
Crap, I was in a hurry. It's "I only know of the DAS systems . . . ."
I think the City of L.A. has a zoning ordinance regarding DAS systems. I think it is required for all new construction and I don't know where the city and building owners are at as far as retrofitting. I seem to remember they have required retrofitting, no doubt a knowledgeable southern CA member knows.
I believe Sacramento County (and all the incorporated cities within) has a similar ordinance, or at least requires a study to be done after construction to see if a DAS needs to be installed.
I would suspect all major "metro" areas have the same or similar wording in their zoning laws.
Regards,
-Frank C.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Usually these BDA or IDAS (Indoor Distributed Antenna Systems) are in the fire code. They are not required in all buildings, just ones where radio service is impacted. Usually the requirement is a sufficient signal level in 95% of the building and at the fire alarm control panel.
Overpriced and problematic at best, but that's for another discussion.
Overpriced and problematic at best, but that's for another discussion.
I'm wondering how other smaller departments are going to handle this pending encryption because it's not cheap.
There's no requirement to encrypt, just to avoid putting PII over the air. There are alternatives, such as running records checks via MDT or cell phone. Some agencies are running people over the air by name/DOB or driver's license number only. It's the combination of those things that DOJ wants agencies to avoid disclosing.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It's not really that expensive. As older analog only radios have been retired due to age, most agencies have been buying digital gear for about the last 10 years or so. There's some backend stuff that needs to be done, but it's not overwhelmingly that expensive, just takes some time to coordinate everything.
And yeah, as said above, MDT or cell phones….
Anyone heard more on the transition to digital/TDMA?
I'm mostly seeing traffic on SFFD EMS4 (959), DPW2 (4083), Event 2 (847), and SFFD A1 (925)
SFPD and SFFD seem to mostly use the old system still.
I'm mostly seeing traffic on SFFD EMS4 (959), DPW2 (4083), Event 2 (847), and SFFD A1 (925)
SFPD and SFFD seem to mostly use the old system still.
SFFD is pretty busy on TDMA TGs, using A1, A3, and tac channels assigned as needed. As others have mentioned, Animal Control is on TDMA, along with DTIS (which figures -- the comm techs would be first to work with new radios), and a lot of action on the 4xxx TGs (DPW, Building Management, etc.). SFPD has been almost completely quiet for a couple of weeks, and the fire automated announcement TG (60102) showed up last night for a few moments but is now silent again.
SFFD EMS4 (959) seems to be the busiest TG so far in my monitoring; "2-BSES DPW 2" (4083) is the second busiest. Followed by SFFD A1 & A3, Animal Control, and the SF Library.
(I've been logging for the last 5+ days)
I'm still concerned about the audio quality of the TDMA signal, but that may be an artifact of my BCT996p2 scanner and the simulcast. (It sounds like they're talking on old Nextel radios).
(I've been logging for the last 5+ days)
I'm still concerned about the audio quality of the TDMA signal, but that may be an artifact of my BCT996p2 scanner and the simulcast. (It sounds like they're talking on old Nextel radios).
