Sticky Thread for MilAir II

[TinEar]

That severe weather turned out to be a bust. The winds certainly blew but that was the extent of it...so far. 75 degrees on December 1st is a new record for Baltimore/BWI. Guess that was the end of the warm weather though.

Good catch on the CANYON flight Mark. I had seen conflicting reports that there were going to be two or three of them. You settled the argument by catching three although one might just be a spare to make sure at least two are in the air tomorrow. Even the 255.125 freq turned out to be good for them. Last I heard they were going to RON Willow Grove and leave from there for the game and do the flyby at 1430 local time. I wonder if the VFA-86 Sidewinders made it to Willow Grove also?

Actually, the flyby will be at 1431:30 according to this story which also details the aircraft, their units and the pilots:
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=115308&ran=193235

2012: HOIST 30 (KC-10A McGuire) with McGuire Metro checking on weather. He previously called about 15 minutes ago and said he was holding to the south, apparently while a storm moved across the WRI area...239.8

 

[Mark]

I'm thinking the VFA-86 guys were backups and 3 VFA-105 FA-18's will be sufficient
for a game flyby.
Maybe cause of expected bad wx will get some more inbound Sat morn but have a feeling
that VFA-105 will handle the job for the Navy.
That was HOIST 90 by the way dodging wx for McGuire which like you said was temp
windy bust here.Slim line of heavy wind and rain here..

Also earlier 0030z heard TEAM 55,56,57 and 58 MARSA direct Nantuckett
on NY Oceanic 132.150.
Thats a mess of KC-10's.Was hoping to hear some B-1's or Buffs or Fighters to go along but nothing yet.
0157z TEAM 58 with ZNY 128.300 so probably on way back..
0200z TEAM 56 back with ZNY Oceanic 132.150
0205z TEAM 57 with Mcguire appch decending 124.150
0208z TEAM 58 with McGuire appch 124.150 level 10k.

Mark

 

[Mark]

Caught MAPLE 15 single F-16 headed South for Langley I assume..
ZNY 290.200
ZDC 363.000
ZDC 307.25 Dupont,missed that has had freq previously locked out and forgot about it.. DOH! Thanks Tin.
ZDC 254.300
ZDC 256.800 Snow Hill contacts Maple Ops on 138.000

Mark

 

[TinEar]

Caught him here too Mark. Just one addition...between ZNY-Yardley 290.2 and ZDC-Woodstown 363.0, at 0922 he was handed off to ZDC-DuPont 307.25 where he checked in at FL 280. His routing through this area was direct Salisbury, Cape Charles, Langley. I wonder if this guy (MAPLE 15) is another jet for the detachment to add to the three that came down a few days ago (MAPLE 91/92 and SHIFTY 01)? Guess we'll find out soon enough when they start flying their missions from Langley.

1009: And here's VFA-86...WINDER 13 (F/A-18 Oceana NAS) calling ZDC-Cape Charles 256.8 where he tries to check in at FL 210
1011: WINDER 16 with ZDC-Cape Charles 256.8 (Doesn't exist...he made a mistake w/suffix...it's 13)
And from another board someone is reporting WINDER 11, flight of two, arrived at Willow Grove early in the 0900 hour.
1017: WINDER 13 handed off to ZDC-Casino 285.4 where he checks in at 15,000 feet.
WINDER 13 descending to 11,000 feet at 1020...still on 285.4
1022: WINDER 13 cleared direct Cedar Lake...285.4
My 785s are hearing this aircraft, the 780s cannot....same antenna. The 780s lost him when he descended to 11,000 feet with ZDC...785s copied him down to about 5000 feet with Philly.
1024: WINDER 13 handed to Philadelphia TRACON where he checks in...269.25
1028: WINDER 13 handed to Phil. TRACON...273.575 (He's getting weak as he descends into Willow Grove.)
1031: WINDER 13 still w/TRACON 273.575 but now too weak to copy. That's probably the last I'll hear him.
So...we have three WINDERs and three CANYONs sitting at Willow Grove. Four will do the flyby for the Army-Navy game. Flip coins?

1052: Flight of at least three aircraft on 143.8...probably A-10s from Martin State...over the next several minutes they chat about the formation they're flying. Still no callsigns heard.
(We also had a four ship DRAGO 51 flight that were A-10s from the MA-ANG at Barnes go into MTN a couple of days ago after the Arlington flyover. Don't know if they ever left.)
1059: WILD flight reporting off the deck at 57 past the hour from Andrews..with SOF 139.9...and on interflight 143.6, flight of two F-16s.

1102: WILD 1 flight handed to ZDC-Swann 360.7 requesting block 20-21000...heading for Sea Isle 200 radial, 45 miles...confirm flight of two.
1105: WILD 1 flight handed to ZDC-Cape Charles 256.8 and check in there.
1105: That other flight of A-10s still on 143.8 and still talking about their formation.
1107: WILD wingman sent to U-10 to check on conditions where they're going to work. That freq should be 238.1 but I never heard them with Giant Killer on that freq so don't know where they went.
1109: WILD says to push 238.1...and they come up with Giant Killer to check in and say they'll be MARSA with a SCARY flight
1110: WILD 1 says he'll be with SCARY 1...both two ship flights and will be refueling in AR-636 with DC 62 and DC 63 (KC-135s from Andrews)...want to know if south part of W-386 is free so they can transition to AR-636.....also want their return flight setup now through BayWatch in R-4006 to Andrews for one hour from now.
1112: SCARY 1 flight in the air and working interflight...139.15
1114: WILD 1 says he'd like to switch to a tactical freq...238.1
1114: WILD 1 says they're switching to the tac freq...312.3
1118: SCARY 1, flight of two, checks in with ZDC-Cape Charles 256.8 at FL 210
1121: SCARY 1 flight handed to Giant Killer on 238.1 where they check in at FL 210 (no joy after 3 attempts)
1123: SCARY 1 flight makes contact with GK...say they'll be W-386 for about an hour for missile work...want to ensure the test track is clear
1124: SCARY 1 flight changing to tactical freq 337.225 and make contact with each other there
WILD....143.60 interflight and 312.300 tactical
SCARY..139.15 interflight and 337.225 tactical
I heard DC 61 tanker report take off from Andrews at 1047 but haven't heard 62 or 63 which WILD says are their tankers.
1132: WILD flight with Giant Killer 238.1 to report heading south to AR-636 (flight is getting weak here in spite of their 22,000 foot altitude...might just be in a turn or something causing that)
1133: WILD 1 says they want to stay at FL 220 and want to change to the tanker freq...238.1
He didn't repeat the tanker freq so this will be a search and find mission...hopefully.
1136: JOSA 217 to Griffin Command to report airborne from Andrews at 1634Z...141.55
1140: SCARY 1 calling DC 62 on 238.1...say they're 50 miles to the north...can't hear DC 62 on this freq (haven't found a tanker freq yet)
I've got 33 refueling freqs programmed and don't hear WILD/SCARY and the DC tankers on any of them. They may just be out of range. I was concentrating on 238.9 on one scanner which is primary for AR-636 but hear nada.
1155: Nothing heard from WILD/SCARY for the past 15 minutes...obviously out of listening range for me...they were weak when still 50 miles north of the tanker.

1207: Time to leave...wildbill, maybe you can catch these flights heading home. Back later.

 

[wildbillx]

Atlantic Ocean is full of activity today. Hearing all the comms TinEar is hearing plus some inter on 139.150, 143.600, 233.7,312.3,143.8

 

[TinEar]

1431: Just saw the four F/A-18s do the flyover on TV precisely at 1431:30 as scheduled but have heard not a word on the scanners. Didn't think I would during the flyover since it was at 1000 feet but didn't hear them leave Willow Grove either.

 

[jcardani]

Hi TinEar,

I'm in South Jersey and heard the flyover. Canyan 11, 12, 13, 14 (14 was female) and Shadow 6 performed the flyover. Canyan flight were heard first on Willow Grove Ground/Clearance 380.8 then went to Willow Grove Base freq 306.8 for phone info to contact FSS for weather. They took off w/ Willow Grove tower 340.2 and switched to Philly Departure 291.7. When airborne the Canyan flight used 255.125 for air-air comms. About 5-10 min or so into the flight they switched over to Goat control 121.95 (on AUX radio) to talk to the ground at Lincoln Financial Field. I beleive they also swithced to a VHF ATC freq right after they contacted Goat control but I did not get the freq. Canyan flight of 4 flew over the Linc on time at exactly 14:31:10. After the flyby Canyan switched back to 255.125 for air-air and contacted Willow Grove GCA on 266.8 and then finally 340.2 tower. Shadow 6 flew over 1 min after Caynan at 14:32:10. Canyan apparantly did not take off or land at Willow Grove but he was heard on the Goat control only. Does anyone have any further info on Canyan?

Joe

 

[bigred10]

Once the F/A-18's got in the air things were fairly quiet and routine, the most interesting part was them trying to get off the ground.

Apparantly they didn't file a flight plan with Willow Grove and the tower wouldn't let them take off until they got a copy - "just following procedure". Canyan 11 indicated they were already in their jets and would miss the fly-by. He requested to take off VFR and they had already coordinated with Philly ATC. Base Ops gave them a 1-800 number for Williamsport FSS and apparantly they faxed a flight plan to the tower who then had to run it out to the tarmac for a signature.

The tower was then a little slow in giving them clearance to taxi to runway 33 and Canyan 14 (female voice) got rather irrate and said if they don't take off in the next 3 minutes they will miss the fly-by. They finally took off about 14:06

After take-off they switched to Philly departure <291.7> and were on interflight <255.125> but I really didn't hear much else from them until they returned at 14:34. I wish I could get home from the stadium in less than 4 minutes!

I also caught the Apaches using the call sign Shadow. They were talking to Philly on <123.8> and to each other on <40.8>. They also appeared to be coordinating their fly-by on <121.95>. I saw them flying near Willow Grove but don't think they came from here. Perhaps Trenton? I think there is a National Guard detachment there.

Lastly the winds were a little too "swirly" for the Golden Knights. They were coordinating a streamer drop with Philly on <123.8> and I also heard them on <123.475>. They headed back to KPNE with all jumpers on board. That's a bummer!

 

[TinEar]

Nice report Joe. Thanks very much. I was wondering which callsign they'd use since it didn't make sense for the four-ship to use two different calls for the flight. So, it seems the WINDERs flew under the CANYON callsign. What type aircraft was SHADOW? The TV presentation only showed the F/A-18s. Did you mean SHADOW, not CANYON, was only heard with GOAT Control and not landing at Willow Grove?

And bigred10, you answered the question about SHADOW and the type aircraft. My callsign list doesn't show SHADOW for helos though so can't answer the question where they came from. And that was an excellent report about their on the ground problems.

1501: MAPLE 15 (VT-ANG F-16) with ZBW-Kingston 290.35 at FL 270 (He's having trouble establishing comms on this freq) (guess he's on his way home after the flight to Langley this morning)
1512: Helo 402 working with Weide AAF Tower on 126.2 and with Weide Ops 229.4...heard him a few minutes earlier out on the Aberdeen Range freq 248.4

Joe, so they changed the flyover time by 20 seconds for the CANYON flight from the original schedule. I just figured out why my clock was showing about 1431:25...they have a several second delay for the TV broadcast.

 

[jcardani]

Hi Tin,

Bigred just mentioned that Shadow were Apache helicopters.

I heard Shadow and Canyan coord. with Goat control 121.95

Thanks Bigred for answering my question!

 

[jcardani]

Furthermore Goat control notified Canyan flight that their flyover time will be 14:31:10 and also notified Shadow that their flyover will be 14:32:10.

 

[HM1529]

Well, the flyovers for Army/Navy have been pretty well covered already. I didn't have time to go down into the city, but Valley Forge NHP is not far from me so I went and sat there to get a good view of the sky to the east. I caught the Canyan (or is it Canyon, I've seen both written) flight into Philly visually as well as on the radio. They were flying very low from Willow Grove and I couldn't make out much other than there were four fast moving objects in formation heading for Philadelphia. The Scanticon hotel blocked my view a little bit.

As I was leaving, I was surprised to see the Apache's heading west over Vally Forge.

40.8 is "Keystone Ops" at Jjohnstown Cambria Airport in western PA. According to my list of helicopter squadrons in PA, those "Shadows" could have been out of Indiantown Gap or Johnstown. This list is not quite complete (don't have the Hustlers out of KNXX listed).

PAARNG 213th Area Support Group 104th Aviation Co. G FIG CH-47
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-104th Atk Btn Co. A Johnstown AH-64
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-104th Atk Btn Co. B FIG AH-64
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-104th Atk Btn Co. C Johnstown AH-64
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-104th Atk Btn Co. D Johnstown AH-64
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-104th Atk Btn Co. E Johnstown AH-64
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 1-150th Air Assault Btn Co. B FIG UH-60
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 2-104th GSAB Co. B FIG CH-47
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 2-104th GSAB Co. D FIG CH-47?
PAARNG 28th Combat Avn Bde 2-104th GSAB Co. E FIG CH-47?
USMCR MAG-49 HMLA-775 Det. A Johnstown AH-1 / UH-1


Ben

Edited...forgot to mention the Apache's were still A-A on 40.8 when I saw them and were conversing with KPHL on 123.800 Approach. On 40.8, I heard the lead ship say they could stay with Phill Aproach until Pottown. They were flying fairly low and faded quickly on the lowband.

 

[TinEar]

1540: There is a DRAGO 51 flight with Potomac TRACON/Andrews Approach on 335.5 asking for a familiarization tour around D.C. since they are scheduled for an Arlington flyby on Monday. They want to do the tour and then head back to Andrews. It's a flight of four aircraft.
1544: Apparently, the flight was denied permission to do the tour of D.C. and are heading for Andrews...335.5
I keyed on DRAGO for the callsign since they mentioned Arlington flyby plus had the usual 51 suffix but it may be something else...perhaps MALLARD or even VALOR
1545: The four ship flight goes over to Andrews Tower...349.0 (Sounds more like VALOR now)
1548: ?VALOR? 51 flight asking for the option to runway 1R...349.0
Rule Number One: In a four ship flight, the one with the worst, most muffled sounding transmitter will be flight leader and do the talking.
1552: One by one, the VALOR flight is reporting, "base, gear, option" as they go around and around...349.0
I'm not picking up any VHF interflight freq in the 138-144 range for this flight so they are no doubt in the UHF range somewhere. Searching....
1554: VALOR 51 reports "base, gear, stop" this time and is cleared to land...the rest of the flight follows...349.0
By the time they got to 53, I'm sure of the callsign being VALOR. My callsign list for that callsign shows only:
VALOR T-37 14th FTW, Columbus AFB, MS
VALOR T-38 49th FW, Holloman AFB, NM

1614: REACH 380 calling McGuire Command Post...349.4
1618: REACH 380 still calling McGuire CP on 349.4
I read in some document that 319.4 is used for McGuire within 75 miles of the field and 349.4 (the Dover freq also) when over 75 miles away so this isn't an incorrect freq as I've seen reported several times on other boards.
1629: REACH 380 still calling...349.4
1650: BLACKJACK 1 (USCG HH-65)announcing terminate to HUNTRESS and RTB...139.7
1652: BLACKJACK 1 to HUNTRESS again to announce RTB...139.7
BLACKJACK based at KDCA for the interdiction missions.

 

[HM1529]

1614: REACH 380 calling McGuire Command Post...349.4
1618: REACH 380 still calling McGuire CP on 349.4
I read in some document that 319.4 is used for McGuire within 75 miles of the field and 349.4 (the Dover freq also) when over 75 miles away so this isn't an incorrect freq as I've seen reported several times on other boards.
1629: REACH 380 still calling...349.4

The IFR Supplement lists both freqs as Command Post freqs for Mc Guire.

I also heard the repeated calls by REACH 380. I thought I saw him come up on 319.4 first.

Here's the text from the IFR Supplement:

COMD POST - 319.4 349.4 Within 75 NM rad. REMARKS: If 319.4 inop use 349.4.

 

[Mark]

Heard REACH 380 later pressing on with ETHYL tanker on 341.750 AR 20 freq.
I notice Mcguire ignores that 349.400 lately even though posted to them.
Radio op probably gets tired of hearing Dover traffic.
If you want Mcguire CP you got to stick with that 319.400.. LOL

Mark

 

[TinEar]

Mark, no one answers their radios - Dover, McGuire and Andrews all have aircraft calling and calling and never respond to them. I suppose they all use those great receivers fed into Siemens consoles as they do at Andrews but something is just basically wrong with their setups. I've always thought it was the standard military antenna they use. SOP is for the aircraft to initiate contact when 30 minutes from the base but you seldom see an aircraft get a response on their first call at that range. Those of us monitoring MilAir seem to get much better range with our equipment than the military bases do with their high-priced stuff.

1836: NAVY 7W 014 to Andrews CP to announce he's a C-12 being pre-positioned from Willow Grove to pickup an A-4 early in the morning and wants to put fuel on request...141.55
1840: NAVY 7W 014 wants to stay on the number 2 ramp for his pax pickup at 0630...141.55
1845: Have an EVAC (missed his numbers) heading for Andrews with his arrival message listing litter, ambulatory, med personnel, and requirements to service those poor souls upon arrival...141.55
1850: PAT 26 (helo) reporting to Phillips AAF Tower that he's 4.7 miles to the north transitioning to the west along I-95...report as two H-60s (Ref below: Same ones you heard at Wilmington, Mark?)...126.15
1851: U/I traffic on 125.125 - the VT-ANG MAPLE Ops freq...not sure yet if it's them or slopover.
Must have been slopover...nothing further heard.

1857: For the public safety monitors: Have a couple of police helos heading for the Park Heights Avenue area for a bailout after a car chase...123.025

1919: DC KC-135 tanker (very weak) calling Andrews on 351.2...they haven't used this freq lately...he might have just pressed the wrong preset button.
1923: The DC tanker (missed suffix again) calling Andrews Command Post...351.2

 

[Mark]

You may be right as for their equipment being sub-par as we both know from past experiences with both Dover and Andrews CP's.
Sometimes I think though that CP radio operators are not in the room as given the low traffic sometimes they are off doing something else...what who knows?
Maybe they need to take away their X-box games..LOL

Just heard 2 UH-60's briefly with Wilmington 126.000 passing thru class D airspace 1200 feet following I-95 west.
PAT 24 calling 255.400 FS enroute Davidson AAF flt of 2 H-60's... must be Army brass leaving game.
(ref above) Could be same or 2nd flt Tin as reported there were 4 H-60's at ramp at Willow Grove.
Once again the Army brass leave game bummed out for sure..
Next year game is in Baltimore so should be easier for us to hear.

Mark

 

[BMT]

Patrick and Macdill AFB almost never answer 372.2. I waiting on an A/C to use an HF phone patch to see if anyone will answer the phone.
I think Macdill use's 349.4 but they aren't that quick to answer a radio call.

BMT

 

[nightwatch]

142.3

142.3 two fighters chatting 11:20am

 

[TinEar]

142.3 two fighters chatting 11:20am

Probably a pair of A-10s from Martin State. They've been flying Sundays recently and might have refueled with a STEEL KC-135 tanker from Pittsburgh which they've also done recently.
****************************************************
1359: HUSKY 54 (Poss C-130H 142nd AS, DE-ANG Wilmington) with arrival message to Willow Grove Ops...arriving in 10 minutes at 1410, currently A-1...343.0
1412: JOSA 701 to Griffin Command reporting airborne from Andrews at 1905Z and would like that info passed to TACC...141.55